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What's It Going To Take

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


0 posted 01-27-2005 12:36 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Turin shroud 'older than thought'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4210369.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/411366.stm


I saw a PBS program that had a expert on weaves
also dispute the 1988 findings.

You would think it important enough to do
whatever is necessary.

[This message has been edited by Ron (01-27-2005 11:16 PM).]

Ron
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Member Rara Avis
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1 posted 01-27-2005 02:15 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
You would think it important enough to do whatever is necessary.

Important? It's a piece of cloth, John. What possible difference can it matter, beyond idle curiosity, how old it is or who it might have touched in the past? It can prove nothing, change nothing, affect nothing.

Stephanos
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2 posted 01-27-2005 04:04 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Ron,

I'm in total agreement with you on this one.  (such a rarity lately that I thought we should relish the moment)  


Stephen.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


3 posted 01-27-2005 07:59 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Let’s ask this; would the same hold true
for the Grail?


If it can prove nothing, then what is it
that is already proven, that there should
be indifference?

Ron
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4 posted 01-27-2005 09:58 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Let’s ask this; would the same hold true for the Grail?

If there was no way to know if it was the Grail? Sure.

But you're mixing apples and orange, John, because the nature of the Grail, were the legends true, would make carbon dating a bit superfluous.

quote:
If it can prove nothing, then what is it that is already proven, that there should be indifference?

Uh? Your question implies a cause and effect that makes no sense.

I have a pen on my desk that proves nothing, too. So, what is it that is "already proven" by my indifference to the pen? Sorry, but I see no correlation.

You're the one who claims the Shroud holds importance, John. Tell us why.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


5 posted 01-27-2005 10:21 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Ron,

“You're the one who claims the Shroud holds importance, John. Tell us why.”

It doesn’t take my opinion.
Make a threat toward it in a crowd
viewing it and see what happens.

“But you're mixing apples and orange”

Both purport to be relics from the life
and in particular death of Christ, for whom
many doubt there is any contemporary evidence
of his existence.

Such things are important to many of faith,
otherwise they would have cut up the
shroud for dish rags long ago.

Your stance is one the presumes its unimportance,
and yet men and women more talented than you or
I devote their lives to its preservation and authentication.
The article cited is evidence of that.

Ron
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6 posted 01-27-2005 11:33 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

If someone wants to collect Elvis memorabilia, I have no problem with that. If someone wants to worship a piece of cloth, I have no problem with that, either. Both, I think, flow from the same wellspring.

However, if someone thinks either is "important enough to do whatever is necessary," I'm inclined to leave them to their own devices. I can find better causes to support, I think, and more fruitful ways to spend resources.

Please note, too, John, there's a difference between unimportant, which I never said, and not "important enough to do whatever is necessary." Even Elvis memorabilia has importance. Within reason.
Stephanos
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7 posted 01-28-2005 12:33 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

John,

I too think the Shroud of Turin, and other such relicly interesting things, are superfluous when it comes to reasonable proof.  I personally am convinced that the ressurrection of Jesus stands on sturdier ground than a mere cloth.

But like Ron, I don't think that means it has to be false.  I just don't know.  I DO know in the history of Christendom, there has been an unhealthy fascination with relics.  How many skulls of John the Baptist are there anyway?  There's been enough beams of wood said to be from the cross of Jesus to build a modest sized house.  When something smells like that mood and mindset, I tend to keep a distance, and refrain from embracing it.  

I don't know what it is.  But it's certainly no linch pin for or against the Christian faith.


Stephen.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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Waukegan


8 posted 01-28-2005 12:41 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Stephen

“I personally am convinced that the ressurrection of Jesus stands on sturdier ground than a mere cloth.”

What might that be?

Stephanos
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9 posted 01-28-2005 12:51 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

As the ground is made up of many layers, I'll have to start with one.


Historical Veracity.


Stephen.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


10 posted 01-28-2005 02:04 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Stephen

"Historical Veracity."

What  conformity to facts, accuracy, habitual truthfulness,
unwillingness to tell lies, are you relying on?
 
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