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Passions in Poetry

Dead Wait

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Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 11-30-2004 09:53 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

“AMSTERDAM, Netherlands  — A hospital in the Netherlands — the first nation to permit euthanasia — recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures, which include administering a lethal dose of sedatives.

The announcement by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives — a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates.”

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140053,00.html


"whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives"


Thoughts?   Comments?


Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


1 posted 12-02-2004 04:50 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

When human life is defined by sentience, or some other arbitrary rule, the slope gets slippery as other arbitary rules vie for recognition in public policy.  


Stephen.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


2 posted 12-02-2004 07:55 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi


Stephen,

In 2008, the first wave of Boomers
will be going into retirement.  In years, soon after
hospital beds will be filled with unconscious patients
who have no other prospects of a future.

Albert Camus speculated that Lazarus spent his
then recovered life in terror.

When I go out, I would consider it
an act of mercy not bringing me back
or keeping me around merely to take up space.

From personal observation, for man at least,
it is hard on one to have been kept alive
beyond his courage.

John

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


3 posted 12-02-2004 08:27 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

So, I get to kill anyone I deem as just taking up space? Cool!

I guess that's one answer to the population explosion you feared in other threads.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


4 posted 12-02-2004 08:39 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Ron,

The doctors know when it’s hopeless.
And there would be, as there always is,
plenty of lawyers.  

What’s the point beyond the point?

John

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


5 posted 12-02-2004 10:05 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
What’s the point beyond the point?

The point is that no one knows the point, John, until they actually reach it.

In my experience, the foolish and the young confuse a lessened quality of life with a lack of quality. It's so easy to say, "I wouldn't want to live like THAT," until THAT becomes your new reality and a realization takes root that even the most minute pleasures of life are, for all their seeming insignificance, still pleasures. They say youth is wasted on the young, but what they don't say is why. I think it's because only the aged or infirm, generally, can understand how precious every moment of life really is. There is glory in climbing mountains. But, sometimes, I think, there is equal glory in just climbing out of bed every morning.

I've watched a lot of people die. I've never yet seen one fail to struggle for one more, last, final breath.
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


6 posted 12-03-2004 12:01 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Letting Go.  Seem familiar?  'Nuff said.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


7 posted 12-03-2004 12:55 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Well . . .
we’re all going to find out,
aren’t we.

http://judithpordon.tripod.com/poetry/id35.html

http://judithpordon.tripod.com/poetry/id355.html

http://judithpordon.tripod.com/poetry/id224.html
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


8 posted 12-03-2004 10:20 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I have mixed feelings on euthanasia. I do believe that if somebody chooses not to live the rest of the their life in terrible pain due to a terminal illness, they should have the right to decide for themselves how and when to end it. I do find it disturbing that the majority of people who wished to be assisted in committing suicide cited their reasoning as not wanting to be a burden, rather than pain (although, this might be propaganda- this is from the same Catholic Med Ethics teacher who claimed that one Depo-Provera, you ahve a 50% chance of ebcoming pregnant and spontaneously aborting- which interests me- how could someone be aborting every other mont and yet not have  aperiod for years? Beats me... but anyway)

I don't believe in euthanising people who cannot expressly make that decision for themselves, at the time of euthanasia- be they babies or the elderly. I do, however, believe in making someone a DNR- Do Not Recussitate- if it complies with their wishes.

While we're on the subject, what about family members who insist that everything be done (up to and including CPR) to keep their elderly, terminally ill and unresponsive mothers or fathers alive?
LeeJ
Member Patricius
since 06-19-2003
Posts 13093
SE PA


9 posted 12-03-2004 10:52 AM       View Profile for LeeJ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeeJ

I believe a "Living Will" would suffice any debate, again, it should be the responsiblity of the individual to decide.
Bringing more awareness on this subject and the importance of a living will, would be, I think, wise.  

And, adding...depending on the situation, as lets say...Chris Reeve....there is still quality to life...

My own personal feelings is this...reagardless, up until that last breath, there is perhaps a personal retribution derived from a destinal source...Lets say God's plan...whatever we go thru, suffer, feel pain...up until that last dieing breath...a person in a comma might even say...forgive me Lord...??????  Who knows?  But perhaps even then a divine grace is at work, and we are our own judge?

It is said, that it is so...and perhaps to, no matter what someone fails to give in life...they retribute in slow death?


Susan Caldwell
Member Rara Avis
since 12-27-2002
Posts 8464
Florida


10 posted 12-03-2004 12:15 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Once upon a time there was a beautiful woman that I learned a lot from and was very close to.  She and I discussed (when she was still very healthy) her feelings on terminal illness.  She felt that if she were ever diagnosed with anything that would take great medical treatment in order to have a chance, she didn't want to do it.  She told me she would opt for quality verses quantity.  

Unfortunately that day came.  She was diagnosed with ovarian cancer.  She fought like a dog for three years.  All the while saying, "I am going to beat this."  The last time I saw her in the hospital, I was getting ready to leave for the night and told her I was leaving and would send her son in to say goodbye, poor choice of words on my part.  She grew very agitated and said, "I do not want to die yet!"  I quickly assured her that I had meant he was coming in to say goodbye for the night and we would be back in the morning.  It broke my heart and to this day, 4 yrs after her death, I still feel horrible about that moment.  

My point?  The same as Ron's, you just don't know until you are "there".

Sunshine
Administrator
Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


11 posted 12-04-2004 10:57 AM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


To this day I believe my mother struck a deal with her doctor when she was diagnosed with terminal, unoperable cancer...and I can just her here telling him..."Give me what you can give me to see me through on my own two feet until my own two feet can't take me any further..."

and I am sure she also swore him to secrecy that he make sure she didn't "suffer" any more than necessary at the end.  She was pleasantly bossy about things like that.

And her physician was just that kind of life-friend that I believe he would have done anything she wished, under the guidelines he was restricted to abide by.

I believe this, because she was strong of voice and character two days before she admitted herself into the hospital and didn't come back out on her own two feet.

I deal with people every day who sign forms indicating to their loved ones and physicians a "right to die", that they would not prefer to have any measure performed, whether resusitative, operations, or "any heroic measures" that would keep them alive without quality of life.  I do not view this as suicide in the least.  I view it as a choice...to not prolong their misery, and to certainly think in the best possible light for their loved ones...

and yes, finances comes into play, as well.  Not everyone has megabucks of insurance at their disposal, and these people are hoping to leave something of substance behind so that their families do not have to "sell the farm" so to speak, to pay off medical bills.  Heaven knows, funeral expense alone takes a huge chunk.

It all boils down to choice, and talking to family members to give them a sense of understanding where you are in your head.  We certainly don't have a choice in our birth...but we can give some intelligent decision to the time we wish to quit the earth, and head on to who knows where...

it's not an easy decision...and it takes a sound mind to get us to that point where we can manage the rest of our life as we wish.

Off the soapbox now.  Thanks.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


12 posted 12-04-2004 11:20 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

My father was the same; for him it was dying, not death, that was
the fear.

 
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