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Philosophy 101
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Does perfect exist?
| Philosophy 101 |
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Does perfect exist? |
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Aenimal Member Rara Avis
since 2002-11-18
Posts 7350the ass-end of space 
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is there anything in or of this universe/life that truly meets the definition of 'perfect'? A broad topic but it will lead to another question, for the time being i'm just curious to read you responses. |
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Copperbell Senior Member
since 2003-11-08
Posts 956 |
You've got me thinking - I will post later [This message has been edited by Copperbell (11-18-2004 10:11 PM).] |
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Michael
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-13
Posts 7666California |
You mean besides the '72 Miami Dolphins? |
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Skyfyre Senior Member
since 1999-08-15
Posts 1906Sitting in Michael's Lap |
I've had a few perfect moments in my life. The birth of my children, for instance. Oh, sure, I was in pain - bleeding and torn in a few places, groggy and thirsty and exhausted, and looking every bit of it - heck, my eyes even got leaky on me, and I NEVER used to get choked up about anything. Nevertheless, that first glimpse of my daughter's, and later my son's, tiny face ... Perfection. No doubt in my mind. |
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muted
since 2004-01-15
Posts 2949Elapsing, Eclipsing, Evolving |
perception defines perfection. but you know that  |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Well, my points have already been made. A newborn baby is perfection, to me. So far, in this life, I have found nothing else to be perfect. Now if it's a perfect woman you are looking for, well, I am as good as it gets, so call me...  "cast me gently into the morning, for the night has been unkind" |
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SEA 
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 2000-01-18
Posts 22676with you |
I like what Muted said...it is in how we personally define "perfect". Kind of that 'eye of the beholder' type of a thing.  |
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Dark Angel Member Patricius
since 1999-08-04
Posts 10095 |
I'm with Dawn and Sea into this night i wonder, it's morning that i dread, another day of knowing of, the path i fear to tread. |
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Copperbell Senior Member
since 2003-11-08
Posts 956 |
perfect: 1. complete in all respects; flawless 2. excellent, as in skill or quality 3. completely accurate 4. utter, sheer, absolute ..... Webster's New World Dictionary 3. completely accurate: I think the Earth meets the definition of perfect. From the angle of its tilt to the exact measurement to its orbit around the sun to the currents in the ocean that keep it from becoming stagnant, the Earth is precise. And precise in such a way that we could not exist if certain things were only slightly altered. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Powers and weights, densities and amounts All are the core, all are the perfect cause Compounded anyway - everything counts And is a maker and breaker of laws. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
YES. Perfect exists. It's when we apply our standards and ideals to what is, considering in hopes, what could be, that imperfection as a perception is born. But then, isn't that the impetus of evolution? grin Excellent question Raph...and didn't we discuss this before? My memory is imperfect. ;( |
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Marge Tindal
since 1999-11-06
Posts 42384Florida's Foreverly Shores |
Oh yes, I certainly believe so~  ~*When the heart grieves over what it has lost, the spirit rejoices over what it has left. - Sufi epigram <))>< Email noles1@totcon.com |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Some words from Latin: (see Wheelock's Latin) Per: [preposition] through [prefix] throughly, completly, very Factum: deed, act, acheivement Facere: to make, to do, to accomplish Perficere: to do thoroughly, accomplish, bring about Bona facta "good deeds" Per bona facta "through good deeds" Mala facta "bad deeds" Per mala facta "through bad deeds" |
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Krawdad Member Elite
since 2001-01-03
Posts 2597 |
Raph, Interesting question, but lame, if you don't mind me saying so, since you didn't define "perfect". But then, that is a methodology. A couple of curious responses too. Karen's perked my interest: "But then, isn't that the impetus of evolution?" Well, no, not at all. Evolution has nothing to do with perfection, or vice versa. But that should lead to another thread? To draw from investigations in particle physics, "perfect" is perhaps not observable. On the other hand, there may be an argument that could be made for mathematics. Any mathematicians in the house? Other than that, "perfect" could be defined as something, or anything, that fully meets one's expectations, which is, I think, what most of the replies are getting at. e |
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Mysteria
since 2001-03-07
Posts 18328British Columbia, Canada |
Sure does, but probably only to the person defining its definition Raph. To me a small hand in mine is absolutely pure perfection! To someone else it could be a kiss, a look, a diamond, and so on. So many things in life depend on the expectations we put on them to be "perfect." True perfection comes when you finally let that guard down a tad, to see beyond the first layer, and so I believe it is all in the definition. Convenez-vous? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Ah, Krawdaddy! *beaming at you* Let me think about how to answer you, as this question hinges on another question of my own. Let's suppose for a second, that I actually believed my answer, that everything is perfect, right now. Let's just say I can look in the mirror, and see past my various neuroses, and I say to myself there, "Karen? You are an absolutely perfect being. Don't change a damned thing!" (Trust me, it's a stretch for me, too.) But let's just suppose... What would compel me to reach for more, then? Like a baseball player on a winning streak, I tend to stagnate (perhaps superstitiously?) in the stench of the same worn socks--and I smile here thinking of a quote from the movie "A League of Their Own", whereupon the coach inquired of his star pitcher who did just that-- "So what? We all have to suffer?" as he held his nose and waved her stench away. To offer another analogy, I recently was asked by the carpenter who renovated my home, "What would you do with the house of your dreams?" I know, as a certainty, I would end up changing something. Oh, not right away, no. But as I live and change, I'd want my surroundings to reflect that. As for the evolution question? I maintain that somebody must have said/thought: "This sucks. There has got to be a better way." Necessity being the mother of invention, I have to question the acceptance of the states of perfection, as it seem to indicate to me, contentment, which I perceive to be the antithesis of evolution. And if you're wondering what my question of kin would be, it is this: "How do I do better without using the pain of being a malcontent as my impetus, because of course, a state of perfection indicates the ultimate end-resulting satisfaction?" Or to put it another way, what makes someone leave an oasis? ("To infinity, and beyond!" --Toy Story) So I suppose I have to amend my answer, that yes, perfection exists, and it is NOW. And NOW is decidedly temporary. sheesh. It's after four a.m. here, I do hope I'm making sense... |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
quote: Unspoken assumption #1: We will be content in the face of perfection. Unspoken assumption #2: We want things to be perfect. p.s. You're not talking about evolution, Karen, which is a natural process requiring no decisions. Genes and chromosomes don't "decide" to adapt or mutate, it just happens, and the result is evolution. The desire to improve a situation because "This sucks, there's got to be a better way" is usually called progress. Sometimes, it's just called divorce. In either case, it's a perception that may or may not actually reflect reality. Ultimately, though we use a lot of different ways to describe it, we are all victims of the Grass Is Greener syndrome. I doubt that would change even in a perfect world. |
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ice Member Elite
since 2003-05-17
Posts 3404Pennsylvania |
"In this broad earth of ours, Amid the measureless grossness and the slag, Enclosed and safe within its central heart, Nestles the seed perfection." exert-Song of the Universal-Walt Whitman I believe that Whitman's take on this subject is very good, he is cautious about reality but as is usual for this genius, he adds bit of the unknown world of improvable hope..a faith that the seed of perfection exists... As for my opinion, I will accept excellence as a replacement for perfection until, and if, that seed ever sprouts..I can see and touch excellence. Ron... I hope this passage from Leaves Of Grass, does not get the "edited out" stamp....it is only an exert, so I feel it should pass approval... I have used poetry as a learning tool, and quotes as examples of how I feel, written of course by much larger minds than mine, who are able to articulate my feelings in a much more dramatic way than is possible for me. ice_________ ><> |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
Excerpts are fine, Ford. Also, any poet listed in our Classical Poetry section at the main site, as certainly is the case with Whitman, has already been accepted as "copyright free." The classics belong to the world. |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Nodding here. "Evolution" was indeed, a poor choice of word. Progress is much more apt, and even hopeful. *chuckling* The grass is greener syndrome? I submit that as incredible as it may seem, I have just discovered there are varieties of grass that do not come in carefully weighed baggies. But personal insights aside, I'm thinking now of an instructor who taught me method in chalk pastel and charcoal. She informed me that my biggest obstacle in the pursuit of my hoped for goals as an artist, was knowing when to STOP. *shaking my head* I wonder now if she understood how astute an observation that was of me, in every aspect of my being. But I still maintain that perfection exists--sometimes in the form of a perfect mess, but there it is.  But I do thank you, Ron, for the insight--it helped to shed a little light for me, as I realize my analogy is decidedly a personal problem. Then I have to wonder, "what ain't?" Happy Thanksgiving. From a work in a progress. |
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Local Parasite
since 2001-11-05
Posts 2527Transylconia, Winnipeg |
Reminds me of something I've been reading lately. From Edmund Burke's "The Sublime and Beautiful" (parts in bold are my emphasis, italics are the author's) quote: This isn't a representation of what I think, necessarily, but just something I thought I might share with a community of poets. I think Burke's is a neat idea, that the perfect and the beautiful are not always compatible, but I think Burke really might want to rather question whether or not the things he attributes to imperfection are essentially imperfect, or whether he only considers them so based on some measurement other than an amount of beauty. Personally, I agree with the Platonic idea that the perfect must exist, as it is something by which we measure everything else in our lives. How could things approach perfection if it were not for a perfect, a sort of sun from which we could see everything? It might depend on your definition of "exists." "God becomes as we are that we may be as he is." ~William Blake |
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Juju Member Elite
since 2003-12-29
Posts 3429In your dreams |
That can ONly be defined by an indivisual, because like reality, its relative. Beauty is in the Eye of the beholder Juju |
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muted
since 2004-01-15
Posts 2949Elapsing, Eclipsing, Evolving |
raphy, im giggling now LOL |
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Huan Yi Member Ascendant
since 2004-10-12
Posts 6688Waukegan |
http://judithpordon.tripod.com/poetry/id308.html |
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