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Passions in Poetry

Letting Go

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Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 11-10-2004 07:44 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

‘CLAMART, France — Yasser Arafat has suffered brain damage
and kidney and liver failure, the Palestinian prime minister said Wednesday,
but a top Muslim cleric ruled out any possibility of life support being turned off...

Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath  said Arafat, who was in
a deep coma connected to a respirator and a feeding tube, had suffered brain
damage because of a hemorrhage. Only his heart and lungs were still
functioning, Shaath said...


As long as there are signs of life in the body of the president, he will remain
under treatment," said Tamimi. "It is prohibited in Islam."’

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138217,00.html

So when is enough enough?

For you?

Anyone remember Karen Ann Quinlan, (my “Karen Ann” was written
to her)?  How far should a society go.


John

P.S.

the constant struggle with submission
is tiring
this so-called strength I’ve gained
is just another heavy load,
I wish to curl myself into a Fetal rose
and rest in the eternal womb awhile.


January 7, 1975
Karen Ann Quinlan

Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


1 posted 11-10-2004 10:41 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Huh?  Disconnecting life support is against Islam, but suicide is condoned as long as you kill others?

Personally, as I told my Dietetics professor (much to her chagrin), 'I'd rather die at 50 of a heart conniption eating a rare steak, big baker, with a dark beer in hand surrounded by friends and family, than to live to 90 being fed strained mushed peas by someone I don't know.' I'd rather not be on life support if there was NO HOPE of any sort of recovery.  If I'm a vegetable, check me out and put me to bed with a shovel.  Which reminds me.  Gotta get one of them 'living wills'.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


2 posted 11-11-2004 12:57 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Alicat,

“I'd rather not be on life support if there was NO HOPE of any sort of recovery.”

And if recovery meant:

“being fed strained mushed peas by someone I don't know”

?

Would Lazarus want that?

John

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


3 posted 11-11-2004 09:20 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

He's dead, guys. Happy now?
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


4 posted 11-11-2004 04:31 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Rather ambivalent actually, Brad.

John, why on earth would you namedrop Lazarus?  I mean, come on...that's a friend of Jesus who died almost 2000 years ago.  Life Support was not around in any shape/form/fashion.  Best they could manage was salting the corpse to preserve it for viewing or transport!  If you're gonna discuss 'Current Events', then stay current!

Geeze, it'd be like bringing up Genghis Khan in an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.  Non sequitors out the ying-yang.

If you want to be on complete mechanical life support in the vain hopes of making a complete recovery and rehabilitation towards normality, then go for it.  Personally, I stick with what I said and made sure my SO knew as well.  She thinks the same way.  Put me to bed with a shovel, take what you need, then plant the rest, unembalmed, so that the soil can get some benefit without being poisoned by viewer-friendly ichors.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


5 posted 11-11-2004 11:10 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Alicat,

Just wondered if Lazarus would
welcome returning if it meant a life
such as you described.  If anyone afforded
that chance would want it.   Seems going once
is enough, if that’s all you got to come back to.

John

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


6 posted 11-12-2004 12:04 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Ahh, the foolish pride of the young and healthy ...


Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


7 posted 11-12-2004 12:34 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Ron,

My father was neither young or healthy,
and he was very deliberate in his wish
not to be brought back.  He was not
a religious man. And I doubt he was
unique.

“He had been to touch the great death, and found that, after all,
it was but the great death. He was a man.”

Stephen Crane

I wonder if that is true.

My father, the concentration camp survivor,
wasn’t afraid of death; he hated dying,
but death itself was no terror.


Perhaps our generation has a different
view.  If so, the question is why.

John

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


8 posted 11-12-2004 09:43 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Alicat-

''I'd rather die at 50 of a heart conniption eating a rare steak, big baker, with a dark beer in hand surrounded by friends and family, than to live to 90 being fed strained mushed peas by someone I don't know.' I'd rather not be on life support if there was NO HOPE of any sort of recovery.  If I'm a vegetable, check me out and put me to bed with a shovel.  Which reminds me.  Gotta get one of them 'living wills'.'

Right, that's nice and ideal, walthough chances are you'll make it to the hospital and survive... maybe with constant heart problems for the rest of your life, or even a stroke... I work in a nursing home, and I see plenty of people in their 50's and 60's being feed pureed goop, unable to talk aside from the occasional incoherent mumbling- maybe they wanted the same thing.

It doesn't work that way. And you can't take someone off life support if they aren't actually on it.
Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


9 posted 11-12-2004 01:10 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Agreed wholeheartedly.  My personal views are still the same though.  Do the same even if mostly vegetative.  If all I'm really good for is consuming oxygen, eating mush, and creating fertilizer, I believe I could do that much more efficiently a few feet under the sod.  That's just me.

Any medical mishap is in the genetic gene pool from my mom and dad, although mostly from mom's side, as that line has been here for far longer than my dad's.  If Grandpa Henry counts as being a citizen, being born on the boat coming over, then I'm third generation here.  Otherwise, I'm the second.  Combined, their families have had just about everything out there, except for Hep, AIDS, and HIV.  So I reckon when the bundle of straws are held forward, it's gonna be random chance whether or not I pull the short one.
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


10 posted 11-13-2004 01:12 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

LOL, I feel the same way.

But anyway- unfortunately, under current law, if all it takes to keep you alive is oxygen and mush, it's illegal to kill you. There's no oh-so-vital plug to pull.
 
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