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Passions in Poetry

Soul

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Brad
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75 posted 10-30-2004 10:01 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Have you been eaten by a T. Rex?
Essorant
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76 posted 10-31-2004 12:40 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

No; they are not present in such a way that they may eat me, yet.        They are in prehistory, in artifacts, in words, in memory, in imagination, in lore; many things refer to them because we know they were physically present on earth at one time and that they exist.


Huan Yi
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77 posted 10-31-2004 01:50 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

Midnitesun,

“Soul
is what makes us stand apart
from other living things”

Please be advised that my mother expects Fifi,
Mimi, and Sammy to be in Heaven with her.

I’m on my own.

John
Essorant
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78 posted 10-31-2004 06:21 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Time:  Now + Now + Now + Now = Now


Place:  Here + Here + Here + Here = Here


Here + Now = Existance


Essorant
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79 posted 10-31-2004 10:41 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I will explain those equations.  
Of course I don't think dinosaurs, the Roman Empire and McDonalds are all here "right now" in our "here" and "now"
The use of "now" and "here" above is in reference to the "now" and "here" of all things as "one" whole.  The whole universe, is just that, the whole universe, everything in time--in any point of time--always exists to the whole universe looked at all at once (at all times).  And everything in place--in any point of place--always exists to the whole universe looked at all at once (at all places).  As humans we may not look at every time and place all at once, therefore time and place are "divided" into "distances" and "folds" . Consider though:

Time

This second (now) This minute (now), this hour (now), this day (now), this week (now), this month (now), this year (now), this century (now), this millenium (now) this world-age (now), this universe-age (now).  The bigger the time-view/picture, the bigger the NOW.  

Place (starting at my house           )

My house (here), Regina (here), Saskatchewan (here), Canada (here), North America (here), America (here) The whole world (here), the whole universe (here) The bigger place-view/picture the bigger the HERE.  

Therefore all things in the whole are in one "here" and one "now".  Everything exists.
Ron
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80 posted 10-31-2004 06:42 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
The whole universe, is just that, the whole universe, everything in time--in any point of time--always exists to the whole universe looked at all at once (at all times).
Cool.

Tomorrow, I think I'll go to the bank, Ess, and cash the royalty checks they haven't sent me for the books I haven't written yet. And I think I'll use the rather substantial fortune I'll receive to have my dead mother cured of cancer and book us both a flight to Tau Ceti.


Essorant
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81 posted 11-01-2004 10:43 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I never said the Universe is an anarchy.  God sets order and might to choose; and our choice may only do within the order and might that is given to us.
Everything is not arbitrary and free because there is Order and Nature set over the whole Universe.

Man doesn't see the whole universe; therefore he may not make a choice in respect to the whole universe all by himself.  God sees the whole universe though; therefore if we make a choice in respect to God's will it serves the whole universe.  Everything we choose is held in the whole universe forever.  God holds all.  When you curse God hears that curse forever.  When you hurt, God feels that hurt forever.  When you think God sees that thought forever.  When you sin, God sees that sin forever.  Everything exists, and everything exists forever as a part of the whole universe.  You can't remove anything from the Universe.  Every paint brush stroke makes and is part of the whole picture, forever.  Whatever "picture" you paint for yourself, goes into the whole picture too.

Some fly that only lived for one second on earth yet, lives forever in the "picture" of the whole universe.  It is forever "here" in the universe.
And every mote of the flies body, and every mote of his spirit is still in the body and the spirit of the whole universe.  The soul though, must keep a beings individual spiritual wholeness in a spiritual body, that whether or not it is in a bodily body,  God keeps it fastened to him and life and one's own self.
    
Arnold M
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82 posted 12-06-2004 08:11 PM       View Profile for Arnold M   Email Arnold M   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Arnold M

Gentleman: while such philosophic word games might be mind expanding, to understand "soul"
you must go to the Bible.  Do a word study and you will find that "Adam became a living soul" when God breathed the breath (spirit) of life into his prepared body (Gen.2:7). It will be seen that soul is the consciousness, the feelings, the desires, produced by the breath of life vitalizing the body. One synonym for "soul" is "being", used in some
translations.  Many times man is called soul
in the scriptures.  When man dies, his soul dies and is said to go to sheol (OT) or hades
(NT), the "unseen".  Free moving, air breathing creatures (fish, fowl, land animals) are called "soul creatures".

Arnold
Huan Yi
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83 posted 12-06-2004 08:18 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

I am not a person.
I am a succession of persons
held together by memory.

When the string breaks,
the beads scatter.


Lindley Williams Hubbell

Also:

http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem86.html


Either or both of which raise questions.
Arnold M
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84 posted 12-12-2004 05:31 PM       View Profile for Arnold M   Email Arnold M   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Arnold M

Huan,  what questions?  Arnold
Essorant
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85 posted 12-24-2004 12:48 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Brad

May I return to dinosaurs?  

I think there is a flaw in saying that "dinosaurs" don't exist physically on earth today as well.

It is not any lack of existance, but a lack of ground to use the word "dinosaur"

Where we use the word "dinosaur" is only where we have ground really thro man's great work with earthfindings that met the being-shape we call "dinosaur"
  
It is no longer proper to call sand that was once shaped into a sand castle a "sandcastle" as it is no longer in the shape that we refer to with that word.

But the shapebearer that is also shape "sandcastle" is still all existant.  And the shape "sandcastle" is fully born into the shape we call "sand" again.  

All the same shapebearers that bore the shape "dinosaurs" are here, just in
different shapes:  fossils, "artefacts", "sand" etc.
I don't believe any grain of existance is lost when something's shape changes,  but every shape is fully borne into a different shape.
Stephanos
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86 posted 12-24-2004 07:37 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Essorant,

that argument works (sort of) for ontologically real things, that existed in space time ... ie, dinosaurs.  But how would it defend the reality of fictitious things ... like Cerebus, centaur, or dryad?  


Stephen.
Essorant
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87 posted 12-26-2004 02:07 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Stephenos

I can tell you something about the "forest" but then I get mixed up and tangled about trying to tell you about more specific things about the trees of that forest.  All I feel quite sure about is that if there is a forest, the trees must exist, And everything about the trees as well.  I think every tree in a forest stands up in existance and become the shape known as the forest, and therefore that everything smaller about the trees must stand up in existance to become the shape known as the tree, and everything smaller to become the shape known as leaves, until there are no shapes that aren't shapes that ultimatly become the "whole" forest.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-26-2004 11:30 PM).]

Essorant
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88 posted 12-29-2004 12:06 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"Seo sawul is þæs lichoman hlæfdige and heo gewissað þa fif andgitu þæs lichoman swa swa of cyne-sætle."

"The Soul is the body's lady and she governs the five senses of the body as from a royal throne"


Ælfric, Lives of Saints, "Nativitas Domini Nostri Iesu Christi"

[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-30-2004 06:02 PM).]

Arnold M
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89 posted 04-13-2005 08:31 PM       View Profile for Arnold M   Email Arnold M   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Arnold M

Essorant.  So you are saying that death is not the opposite of life?  That Adam, made from dust, and to dust returned (Gen.3:19), still exists in some other form?  And all who have died?

Arnold
Essorant
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90 posted 04-16-2005 04:04 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Arnold

Life doesn't ever cease to exist but becomes something else as a different shape of its own self.  
Just as light is called "light" and "darkness" because it becomes increased and decreased, life is called "life" and "death".  Light is the brightest state of light, darkness is the darkest state of it.  Life is the most increased state of life, death is the most decreased state of it.  
In truth life may actually be the most increased state of light too, and thus dying may be solid light becoming unsolid light again, and bright light becoming dark light, darkness.  
The universe's light is moved so fastly and brightly that it becomes living things, but then it slows down and becomes light again, and then darkness, and then death.


[This message has been edited by Essorant (04-16-2005 09:43 PM).]

Arnold M
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91 posted 04-17-2005 12:45 AM       View Profile for Arnold M   Email Arnold M   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Arnold M

Essorant, you better read and study the Scriptures, for in them you will find the truth of life and death, not from some Eastern mysticism.

The God who created the universe, through Christ Jesus, has left us a written revelation, the Bible.  While written by many men over many centuries, they are inspired by God, and are a unified whole, presenting the story of redemption.

Now, if you believe that, then we can learn the truth, for the Scriptures must be the final word on the subject in question.

Arnold
Ron
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92 posted 04-17-2005 03:03 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Arnold, I suspect you're going to find that such absolutes are firecrackers which inevitably go up in smoke and, if held too long, take a few fingers with them.

Case in point. How can you logically berate Eastern mysticism, or much of anything else, when everything was created by the same God?
Stephanos
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93 posted 04-20-2005 01:44 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Ron,

Error, misunderstanding, heresy, and sin were all created by God too ... if you want to insist on it, just because they fall into the category of "everything".  And yet that kind of bare ontological relation to him, certainly doesn't mean that he approves.  


I want to be careful here, and not be too harsh on Eastern mysticism (because there is much truth in those traditions of thought), but I would have to say that what's wrong in them is still wrong.  And they do deny, in their very foundational tenets, the unique Judaic view of reality which the Bible expresses as "Truth".  Of course, I would rather make distinctions about specific Eastern beliefs, rather than to lump them all together as "bad", because that's not the case.


(sorry Brad- we're talking again)  


Stephen      
Ron
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94 posted 04-20-2005 08:12 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Error, misunderstanding, heresy, and sin were all created by God too ... if you want to insist on it, just because they fall into the category of "everything".  And yet that kind of bare ontological relation to him, certainly doesn't mean that he approves.

Doesn't it?

Remove error, misunderstanding, heresy or sin as possibilities and we would not only have a very different universe, Stephen, we would have a very different God. Each serves a purpose. So, too, I believe, do non-Judaic views of our world. One only needs to watch a bird in flight to realize the Truth of the Bible is not all-inclusive. Is that a lessening of Christianity? Or an expansion of the Christian God?

To imagine an infinite being limited to a single voice defies all sense of reason.
Brad
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95 posted 04-21-2005 09:18 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

It's okay to talk, Stephen. I just think there are other things as well.

I like metaphysics as much as you do.

I just think the physical world and the human world are still open for philosophical talk.

Personally, I think people are simply intimidated by physics and sociology. And the simple truth is

"We don't know" but we're pretty sure "We might be wrong."
Essorant
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96 posted 04-21-2005 12:13 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Brad,
Even though the soul is usually more religious and metaphysical issue, I don't think anyone shall object to welcome more scientific approaches within the same topic and thread.  Just like in a more scientific thread we may welcome more religious perspectives too.  Feel free to bring forth "physical" pieces.  
Every piece helps the puzzle
Stephanos
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97 posted 04-21-2005 03:11 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

quote:
Me: And yet that kind of bare ontological relation to him, certainly doesn't mean that he approves.


Ron:  Doesn't it?
  


No it doesn't.  Is approving and allowing for the existence of something the same thing as approving or condoning it?


quote:
Remove error, misunderstanding, heresy or sin as possibilities and we would not only have a very different universe, Stephen, we would have a very different God.



I've never even suggested removing these things "as possibilites".  Such a metaphysical overhaul would not even be thinkable in human terms.  All I'm suggesting is that protest / dissapproval (against our own sins firstly) IS within the scope of human responsiblity.  And if God does this very thing, within his own written and historical revelation of himself, then so may we ... albeit much more carefully, to make sure we're truly agreeing or disagreeing with him, rather than taking the knowledge of good and evil into our own hands.


A bird in flight also shows that it takes certain characteristics to fly ... there is exclusivity in the most "free" things you could ever observe.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that God's truth isn't spread wide and far, in ways we can hardly comprehend.  I'm just saying that complete relativism doesn't mesh with the kind of world he created, nor with the kind of God he has declared himself to be.  


quote:
Is that a lessening of Christianity? Or an expansion of the Christian God?



That depends upon what you mean.  Syncretism or Catholicity?  (And I don't mean Roman Catholicism, but an openness to truth whereever it is found).  Frank Peretti once said, there are two ways to get rid of God, to say "God is nothing" (the creed of atheism), or to say "God is everything" (the creed of hinduism).


quote:
To imagine an infinite being limited to a single voice defies all sense of reason.



I think that's okay as long as you don't forget the unity and oneness of the great Monotheism you profess.  Does infinite mean infinitely diffuse and contradictory like the 6 million Hindu gods?  God has given his words to many many different messengers ... and yet there is a coherence and relatedness about it all.  But coherence is not a necessary ingredient to the Eastern mystic, or the Western Relativist.


The book of Revelation says he speaks with one voice, and yet describes his voice as a voice "of many waters".  Diversity is not what I'm against.  But somewhere diversity trails off into the lie.  And we don't need to be taught that the lie doesn't exist, under the misunderstanding that God made the lie too.  


Stephen.  
  
Essorant
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98 posted 04-22-2005 03:14 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

When truth is at its strongest it is called "truth"
When truth is at its weakest it is called "lie"
Stephanos
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99 posted 04-23-2005 08:53 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Essorant,


So if I intentionally decieve you, and cause you real harm, would it make you feel any better for me to say that I was just utilizing "weak truth" to get what I want?


Stephen.
 
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