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Passions in Poetry

Why Bush?

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Ringo
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25 posted 06-05-2004 01:25 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Alli- I just looked at my last response and realized that if it was looked at in a certain light, it could be argued that I was beinig overly argumentative... I did not mean it that way...
Here's what I meant:

I feel president Bush is not as bad as the Democrats and Liberals are saying because:

According to Elaine Chao, the US Secretary of Labor:
1)over 1,000,000 jobs haqve been created in the last 8 months
2) There are new Overtime Security Rules that strengthen overtime for 6.7 million workers... including 3.1 who were denied in the past
3) The High Growth Job Training Initiative has offered value-added job training to thousands more and has doubled the total numbers of workers who are eligible to receive federally funded job training.
4)The protection of worker's safety and rights has caused enforcement of OSHA regations to increase, penalties against unscrupulous employers is up, recovery of back wages is up 21% to an 11 year high, employee benefits are up 60%, and workplace injury and death are at an all time low.
5) According to the USA Today, The Bush Administration has added a prescription medicine benefit to Medicare and the Democrats have attempted to increase spending 1.9 trillion dollars in the past 3 years, while attempting to cancel the tax relief that the Bush Administration has passed.
6) His Holiness, the Pope, has congradulated President Bush for his pro-life stance (yet has been oddly silent on the Catholic candidate).

That is what I was asking you to do... simply share the facts as to why Senator Kerry would make a better president than the one we currently have.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again... http://www.cmlb.net/ringo
Ron
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26 posted 06-05-2004 02:35 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
How can you not like this guy?

How much time you got?
Balladeer
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27 posted 06-05-2004 05:34 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

At least four more years
*Alli4000*
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28 posted 06-05-2004 06:20 PM       View Profile for *Alli4000*   Email *Alli4000*   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for *Alli4000*

Ringo, I realize that Kerry is NOT perfect and I'm not saying that your liking Bush is bad...it's just that...in my opinion...I believe that Kerry is better.  Here are the reasons:

President Bush

-  Illegal invasion of Iraq, resulting in about 10,000 civilian casualties
-  Over 500 troops dying
-  Cutting benefits for the U.S. military
-  Cutting the pay of troops serving in Iraq
-  Tax cuts for the rich, which have contributed towards massive deficits
-  $87 billion of taxpayers money for foreign nations and not a cent going towards a national, universal health-care system
-  Ridiculous spending on national defense, security, intelligence and the military, which have also contributed to massive deficits
-  36 million Americans living in a complete state of poverty
-  Slowly trying to eliminate a woman's right to choose
-  Using images from 9-11 in his initial television campaign ads
-  Appointing John Ashcroft as the Attorney General
-  Using EPA funds to make campaign ads
-  Proposing to loosen the protection of endangered species
-  For telling Congress not to offer a Medicare prescription drug benefit to the disabled and elderly
-  Giving Federal funds to religious groups
-  For using the 9-11 attacks to justify all of his policies
-  For advocating a plan to make it easier for timber companies to plunder national forests
-  Proposing cuts to Medicare funding for cancer drugs
-  Advocating more nuclear weapons

Also, I found this website that lists everything George Bush has done: http://p199.ezboard.com/fbitchpillowjustbitch.showMessage?topicID=444.topic&index=15

Once again, I'm not saying your opinion is bad, it's just different from mine.

~Alli~
Brad
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29 posted 06-06-2004 06:28 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
The Bush campaign's endlessly repeated charge that Kerry is a "flip-flopper" is not exactly on the mark, and not just because they apply it to everything Kerry says or does ("A Bush aide today charged that Kerry's breakfast of eggs and bacon was an obvious flip-flop, since he had corn flakes the day before. 'John Kerry can't even be consistent on what he eats,' said the spokesman.").


--Paul Waldman

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18853
Ringo
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30 posted 06-06-2004 08:19 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

OK, Alli- Let's take each of the points that you have presented.

1) Illegal invasion- then where is the UN censure? being illegal, what would cause 38 nations to join us in the fight? Only 11 nations actually had troops on the ground, however the others sent material, and offered aid in other ways, from munitions and supplies to hospitak ships (the Spanish... who voted against the war in the UN). Besides, Senator Kerry voted FOR the war.

2) The total is over 800 troops at this point... President Clinton  also sent troops to their death. President Bush v1.0 sent troops to their death. President Reagan sent troops to their death. President Carter sent troops to their death. Senator Kerry (as a serviceman) sent troops to their death/ Sorry, Alli, however that is the way this whole thing works... there is some national crisis and the president sends young men and women to their deaths.

3) Cutting benefits to the military??? President Bush cannot do ANYTHING that the congress does not allow... and to be completely honest about it, President Bush attempted to send a bill to Congress to increase spending for the military, and THEY cut it. The same thing happened with President Clinton... and it was one Senator John Kerry s who voted for the lack of spending for the military.

Cutting the pay of troops??? Read above. President Bush didn't cut ANYTHING. It was the Congress of the United States that did the cutting... and Senator kerry voted for the cut... and, to be completely honest, My brother is in the Marine Corps, and I have a friend that came home from Iraq WIA... they get the same amount in their pay check now that they got before... except my friend no longer gets combat pay since he is Stateside.

4) Tax cuts for the rich... here we go again. I am no where near the level of being rich... as a matter of fact, according to the numbers that are put out be the Treasury Department, I am barely middle class (actually, I am upper lower class, however the area I live in is depressed, so I do OK), and I got a $500 tax break for each of my kids. I also got a cut in my individual income tax, as well as the taxes I pay for my business... Tax cuts for the wealthy??? hmmmm...

4) This one makes no sense. FIRST you complain that he is cutting spending, then you say he is spending too much... WHAT??? And what would you call too much spending? How much is too much on the defense of your nation?

5) The $87 Billion did NOT go for foreign nations... it went to the troops in Iraq. It was what he asked Congress for in order to fight the war.
As for a national healthcare system... if ANYONE could come up with one that works, and is not goinig to add 17 Billion a year in beuracracy, I would be one of the first people in line to support it. I also don't seem to recall Senator Kerry touting this healthcare system with any specifics. If he can do it, then He will get a look from me. I probably still wouldn't vote for him, however, I would look.

6) 37 Million citizens living in a state of complete poverty. Before bringing this in, I would ask you to find out how many were living in complete poverty BEFORE he took office, and how many of those are Homeless who have no desire to be anything but. (There aren't many, however they do exist). Now, IF the number of citizens in poverty has risen, what is the percentage rate, and how does that numbner rate with any of the other Presidents we have had sitting in the Oval Office?

7) The right to choose vs. the right to life... regardless of who is in office, this will NEVER be settled. Someone is ALWAYS going to be screaming about the outcome. I'm not even going to adress this.

8) 9/11 images... Question... Did 9/11 happen on his watch? Did he have to deal with it? On the homefront, can you find anything to fault his reaction and the way he handled it AFTER the attacks? If he can talk about the booming economy and what he has done to create it, why should he be not allowed to remind people of the strong leadership he presented after 9/11?

9) Appointing John Ashcroft as AG... and this put a burr under your saddle blanket because???? Facts, remember?

10) Using EPA funds to make campaign ads... WHAT????? This is a blatant violation of campaign laws, and he has yet to be called on it. And, somehow, as big an idiot most NJ reseidents think she is, I sincerely doubt Secretary Whitman would allow ANY money to come out of her budget. According to all of the environmental lobbies, there is not enough spent on the Environment, and Secretary Christine Todd-Whitman is going to allow money to be taken out of her budget? This is very hard to believe. I would need REAL proof about this. Not just something that came off of a website, or out of Michaqel Moore's mouth.

11) Proposing to loosen the protection of endangered species... He might have. I honestly don't keep up with such things.

12) He told Congress NOT to give the drug plan, yet he signed it when it came across his desk... hmmmmm......

13) 9/11 to justify ALL of his policies??? I don't believe so. The economy had nothing to do with 9/11 (except for the initial downturn which happens everytime (Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, Somalia, Beruit, etc). His environmental policies have nothing to do with 9/11.

14) Federal Funds to religeous groups... Almost. He wanted to give federal funding to religeous organizations that provided a benefit to the community (day care for welfare mothers who were working, job training, after school programs for disadvantaged youth, etc.). The local food pantry that supplies food to several hundred families is run off federal funds as well as private and corporate donations. UNFORTUNATELY, it is also run out of the Lutheran Church. Should that food pantry, that feeds a thousand kids, be forced to stop accepting federal monies and, therby, shut down? It isn't just religeous groups (the Masons, The Knights of Columbus, The Knights Templar, etc), it is faith-based programs that are providing a valuable and needed service to their community.

15) Proposing cuts to medicare for Cancer Drugs. Again, he might have. I don't keep up with this.

16) Cutting National Forests... I don't keep up with this.

17) More nuclear weapons? Can you prove this? I have heard NOTHING about it, and his military and defense policies are what I stay abreast of mostly (after the economy).

As for that website... you are accepting ONE persons "facts" even though they have absolutely no proof to back up their claims. That is not the way to make your point, Alli. You made a very admirable presentation here, however there is no indication of where you got the facts, or how they are valid.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again...
http://www.cmlb.net/ringo

Denise
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31 posted 06-06-2004 08:32 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Of course, Waldman would have to know that's a joke, right, Brad?

quote:
Depending on your perspective, Kerry is fearful, cautious, careful or considered. Bush, on the other hand, is decisive, resolute, bull-headed, or reckless.


In reading his article, Waldman's perspective is clear to me.


quote:
The public was lukewarm toward the idea of tax cuts


They were? Everyone I know was ecstatic, still are, and hope they become permanent.  

quote:
We see the results of Bush's lack of fear - the endless quagmire of Iraq, record deficits, Washington gripped by the bitterest partisanship anyone can remember. All this from a man who campaigned by saying he was "a uniter, not a divider," and wanted a "humble" foreign policy.


I'd have to disagree that Iraq is an "endless quagmire". As for "Washington gripped by the bitterest partisanship anyone can remember", I suppose Waldman believes that the embittered Democrats are blameless in this, it's all Bush's fault? LOL
Ron
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32 posted 06-06-2004 11:37 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
The economy had nothing to do with 9/11

Not entirely true, Ringo. When the government spends substantially more than it receives, the borrowed money being circulated inevitably stimulates the economy. We saw the same thing during Vietnam and, for a time, it almost became public policy during the Reagan administration.

quote:
Everyone I know was ecstatic, still are, and hope they (tax cuts) become permanent.

See above, Denise. Any one who wants a tax cut in times of war is just dreaming. The only way to avoid paying for an expensive war is to make your children pay for it later. You should explain to all those you know that even bread and circuses aren't free.
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33 posted 06-07-2004 09:37 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

If I remember correctly, Ron, the tax cuts were promised well before the war, so I don't think they really qualify as "bread and circuses". And the war isn't the only expensive thing we're paying for. There's more than one way to trim a budget deficit besides soaking the hard working taxpayers. It's about time we got a break.

For starters, I don't think we should be paying our Congressmen/women their full salary for life, and upon their death their full salary to their surviving spouse for the rest of their life, along with free health benefits for life. Second, I think they should all have to pay into Social Security, and live on that with a small stipend of a pension, like the average folks have to do (the lucky ones who have a pension at all, that is.) They are supposed to be public servants, after all, not living in the lap of luxury at our expense. Third, they should not be able to vote their own salary increases. I think that should be determined by an independent committee of taxpayers, not the people who benefit directly from the outcome of the vote. Talk about a conflict of interest!

And if they don't like it, they can go look for a real job!

And I'm sure tons of money could be saved if the clamps were put on all the pork barrel spending programs they push through and tighter controls were enacted to eliminate as much waste and fraud as possible from the social programs.

Yeah, Ron, I'm dreaming. But a democrat will come along in due time, no doubt, to jolt me back to reality, and will even blame the republican for allowing me to dream in the first place! In the meantime, I'll enjoy the dream and the few extra bucks in my pocket while I still can!

Sunshine
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34 posted 06-10-2004 04:29 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

quote:
For starters, I don't think we should be paying our Congressmen/women their full salary for life, and upon their death their full salary to their surviving spouse for the rest of their life, along with free health benefits for life. Second, I think they should all have to pay into Social Security, and live on that with a small stipend of a pension, like the average folks have to do (the lucky ones who have a pension at all, that is.) They are supposed to be public servants, after all, not living in the lap of luxury at our expense. Third, they should not be able to vote their own salary increases. I think that should be determined by an independent committee of taxpayers, not the people who benefit directly from the outcome of the vote. Talk about a conflict of interest!

Amen!
Ringo
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35 posted 06-10-2004 06:44 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Ron- Allow me to re-phrase...

The events of September 11, 2001- as far as I can see- did not have an effect on the economic policies that President Bush sent through Congress. He did exactly what it was he said he wanted to do during the campaign.
I agree that 9/11 DID affect the economy istels, with the slow down of the stock markt, and the lessening of consumer confidence and the increase in defense spending.... It was not, however, an effect on the economic policies.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again...
http://www.cmlb.net/ringo

Denise
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36 posted 06-10-2004 11:34 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July, but Democrats believe every day is April 15th. - Ronald Reagan

I think he nailed it right on the head!
Brad
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37 posted 06-11-2004 01:00 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Democrats:

Think globally, act locally


Republicans:

Think locally, act globally
iliana
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38 posted 06-12-2004 03:54 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Our bank pays about 1% up until you hit about $10,000 in your account -- then you can have a different kind of account that pays almost 2%.  The rich get richer....the old saying goes.  

As far as Bush or Kerry go -- Personally, I think I'll write in John McCain!  
Ringo
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39 posted 06-12-2004 10:37 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

The fact taht the bank is paying a higher percentage to the more lucrative accounts has nothing to do with politics. It has been this way through both Republican and Democratic administrations.

The bank takes our money and puts it into certain investments, as well as lend it out. These investments are paying an average of (well, the last I checked...years ago) 12% and the borrowing rate has gone down to between 6% and 12%. To make money for the shareholders, they have to lower the rates on their accoutns... HOWEVER... when the account has more money that they can invest, and lend, it is more valuable and makes more money, therefore, they can give back a little bit more. The same thing happens with CD's.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again...
http://www.cmlb.net/ringo

iliana
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40 posted 06-12-2004 07:22 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Thanks for the insight, Ringo.
ecrivan
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41 posted 11-01-2004 12:59 AM       View Profile for ecrivan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit ecrivan's Home Page   View IP for ecrivan

I do hope Bush does not get in for another 4 years even though he shows himself to be more of a decision maker, which I am sure Kerry will be...Bush is leading a democracy but behaves as though he were an autocrat at times, trivializing the constitution and the role of the UN among other things.
What's of prime importance is while there are statements regarding leadership, foreign and local issues here,  no one here has yet put forth an arguement as to what will keep the current leader from worsening his image abroad as well as at home!
As far as I'm concerned the image that America creates can only be counterproductive if the current leader remains in office because he is dead set on allowing the military to trudge along in the Mid-East and Afghanistan.This is where a stubborn leadership is digging its own grave.


jbouder
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42 posted 11-01-2004 08:31 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Brad:

quote:
Democrats:

Think globally, act locally


Republicans:

Think locally, act globally


What does that mean?

Jim
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43 posted 11-01-2004 08:37 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Republicans:

We are Americans, we need to do something.

Democrats:

We are Americans, we need to be better at it.
Stephanos
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44 posted 11-01-2004 09:24 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

That's sort of vague, to say the least.


Brad
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45 posted 11-01-2004 09:25 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Vague?

How so?

What does it mean to be an American?
jbouder
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46 posted 11-01-2004 09:30 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Brad:

Maybe that is evident in election year rhetoric (I don't know ... I can see both sides described either way), but that doesn't comport with my experiences in policy making.  No Child Left Behind, for example, is about both doing something and being better at it.  The Patriot Act, whether you like it or not, is about doing something and being better at it.  Since both of these passed with strong bi-partisan support, perhaps this makes your point more persuasive.  But in my own lobbying and advocacy efforts, I found Democrat and Republican lawmakers equally interested in doing things AND doing things better.

In short, the conception you get of the political process when you are actively involved in it is much different from the one you get when you merely read about it.  I think your distinction is flawed.

Jim
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47 posted 11-01-2004 09:33 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

quote:
What does it mean to be an American?


Personally, I think the Constitution is what sets us apart as American.

Jim
Brad
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48 posted 11-01-2004 09:46 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

And what does the constitution say?

Aside from the administrative stuff?

C'mon, Jim, I know you've read it too.

jbouder
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49 posted 11-01-2004 10:14 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Just testing out what it feels like to pull a "Brad" ...  

In the most general sense, I think American citizenship involves embracing the idealogy that the United States is a country formed by and for the people.  I agree with the late Chief Justice Jay in his commentary on the Constitution's Preamble:

quote:
"The people therein declare, that their design in establishing it comprehended six objects: (1.) To form a more perfect union; (2.) to establish justice; (3.) to insure domestic tranquillity; (4.) to provide for the common defence; (5.) to promote the general welfare; (6.) to secure the blessings of liberty to themselves and their posterity. ... It would be pleasing and useful to consider and trace the relations, which each of these objects bears to the others; and to show, that, collectively, they comprise every thing requisite, with the blessing of Divine Providence, to render a people prosperous and happy." - Chief Justice Jay, The Federalist, No. 22; see also No. 43.


Being an "American" citizen is enjoying a form of government that provides all the requisite rights and protections for prosperity and happiness.  Not the least of which is our right to vote, which is an affirmation that the government does, indeed, proceed from the will of the people.

Jim
 
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