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Evolution.

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croyles
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25 posted 04-20-2004 06:40 PM       View Profile for croyles   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for croyles

forget it brad.
croyles
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26 posted 04-20-2004 06:42 PM       View Profile for croyles   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for croyles

oops sorry, double post. Brad, if you have no idea why i said that then im sorry for the inconvinience.
Local Rebel
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27 posted 04-20-2004 06:43 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Which brain is it that we seemingly only use 10% of?  The human brain is a network of specialized processing centers.  Interestingly enough -- the really creative endeavors seem to be accomplished by those who CAN use 'less' of their brain -- those who can shut off the 'noise' in their head and focus on something.  This has been evidenced by brain scans of persons performing tasks -- when brain activity was minimal -- persons were able to perform creative tasks better.

Children mostly use the more primitive areas of the brain -- even geniuses-- which is the area also responsible for emotion -- which suggests why children behave as they do.   It isn't until the onset of adulthood that the neo-cortex actually comes into play -- which is also the processing center for judgement.  

We don't absorb information faster than our forebears -- we're just bombarded with more of it at exponentially higher rates.  Retention is very low.  The average person has to be exposed to a message repeatedly before they remember it, or understand it.
Not A Poet
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28 posted 04-20-2004 06:45 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

I think quieter works fine, K. But I still don't believe it

serenity blaze
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29 posted 04-20-2004 06:51 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Pete?

and she's ba-ack....grin...
Local Rebel
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30 posted 04-20-2004 06:55 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Perhaps we need a philosophy lite forum for new members -- let's face it -- how many of us are at 101?  

Unfortunately nasty thread evolution.
Christopher
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Purgatorial Incarceration


31 posted 04-20-2004 06:58 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
Ever use 100 percent of a philips screwdriver on a ten-penny nail?
Once. For what it's worth, I ended up using the handle, not the nib (you can imagine how much difference that made...).
croyles
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32 posted 04-20-2004 07:23 PM       View Profile for croyles   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for croyles

i dont think thats right, local rebel. The brain is divided by the left and right hemisphere.

Left:
Language, reading, writing.
Ratio/logic
Rules/Laws
Analysis of text and phrases.
Detail.
Science.
Numbers, Data.
Facts.
Linear - step by step.
Time.
Stolid off-by-heart learning from isolated individual-information.

Right:
imagination in pictures.
body language.
intuition/emotions.
creativity.
Coherences.
Overview.
Art - Music - Dance.
Sound, Tone, language melody.
Rhythm of language.
Mimic, gesture.
Not linear - integrated (thoughts etc)

No one can live without either of these hemispheres. Most people however, have a dominance of one side, this can explain a lot of characteristics of humans, and a lot of stereotypes (people should stop stereotyping, its like racism) are the ones that are so simply (in films) divided by left and right.

Without those "Imaginative pictures" we cannot understand anything. We listen to people and and bring up past pictures and experiences to comprehend what is said or shown or smelt, etc.

The creative and imaginative side isnt when we use our brain less, but use different part of it, the right hemisphere.

I went to a very famous institution in Germany - Stuttgart, where they examine people's brain waves, I had pretty well trained brain apparently, although I havnt managed to prove that, lol. I knew I was right brain dominant from the start of my life, therefore I have trouble with arguments and to show my actual point in writing and speech, and I think it would be an insult to me and all other right brain dominant people to say that we our using less of our brain.

If, for example, we hear a doctor talking about Obstipation or any other medical state, we cannot always pick pictures of our past expiriences, and thefore do not really understand what the heck they are on about. A LOT OF PEOPLE, after hearing something like that, just think they are stupid and chew on theyre self esteem, while really there is no need to.

There is such a thing, that is famous in pschology, as a Blind-Spot. This is when a person cannot see something for they cannot take any past expiriences and pictures to form that object (Thats all I know about Blind-Spot, Im sure you guys are gonna have some criticism about it, and I dont know any arguments against those criterea, cause I see some dilemmas too (what happens at birth for example), but i still believe it.)

But no one can do anything without training in the left brain too, just imagine that.

Search the net for "brain hemispheres" and you will get a lot of sites that are similar to my point, but a lot of sites have a different order of the characteristics that I mention above, I found this one, I my and all my families expiriences to be the most accurate in our point of view.

There are different brain waves that show different kinds of power (this might be the reason of what you though local rebel).

There are alpha waves, omega waves and so on.

Local rebel - I think we do pick up information faster. If we get more info chucked at us, we become more custom to picking up things, and therefore keep on learning faster. There is a point thought, when there is too much learning going on and you cant take no more.
Essorant
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33 posted 04-20-2004 07:32 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant


True intellegence comes from the

croyles
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34 posted 04-20-2004 07:48 PM       View Profile for croyles   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for croyles

YES!!! thats also true essorant!!!

Here are some of my definitions of what people mark as intelligent (its gonna take me some time) -

1 - The sum of our mental abilties.
2 - Our thinking and perception abilities.
3 - The ability to find solutions.
4 - A good and healthy knowledge of humand nature, emotions etc.

Btw, it is said in a lot of websites that emotions are whole brained, I think that is morea accurate.

Check this site out for more info.
http://autism.about.com/cs/behavorialissues/a/emotions.htm

Just keep that quatation (from my link) from Vingerhoets in your head: "We are trained in it"
Local Rebel
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35 posted 04-20-2004 08:07 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

My heart pumps blood.  It can be removed and replaced with a mechanical pump.  Unless there is damage done to my brain from a lack of oxygen during the process -- my intellect will remain in the same state.  

You are not incorrect in stating there are hemispheric differences in information processing -- but there are 11 distinct areas of the brain. The four main components though are the spinal chord, brain stem, cerebellum, and forebrain. You can peruse these sites to absorb more information.

Evolutionary components and the role of the limbic system; http://www.epub.org.br/cm/n05/mente/limbic_i.htm

Diagram of emotion centers: http://www.epub.org.br/cm/n05/mente/struct_i.htm

Interesting article on brain evolution: http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Teachers/brainevolution.html

Theory on conciousness http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20020909/brain.html

Complete primer on the brain at how stuff works; http://health.howstuffworks.com/brain.htm

Have fun learning
croyles
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36 posted 04-20-2004 08:10 PM       View Profile for croyles   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for croyles

let me see, i know a littl about the spinal cord, it is the pathway of communication between the two hemispheres. i think the Corpus Collosum is a sort of back up pathway.
Brad
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37 posted 04-20-2004 08:27 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
Brad, if you have no idea why i said that then im sorry for the inconvinience.


Said what?

As far as I can tell, and I could be wrong, but you don't have a clear idea of evolution.

So, Brad, why don't you ask?

What do you think evolution is?

croyles
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38 posted 04-20-2004 08:35 PM       View Profile for croyles   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for croyles

Brad, from my personal characteristics that I have talked about right and left brain hemispheres, you know that my ideas are unorganized!! Yes! I have the same problem with poetic plots!!

That does not make me inadequate for participating in the philosophy forum, for this is a good start to listen to all your opinions and maybe sort my own ideas out. If you think im unreliable because of that, you may be true, all Im asking is for people to listen to me, and CONSIDER whever anything I say has any meaning at all. I already told you what i thought it was and thats that, I have no hard evidence, just opinions from a regular human being. So if your asking me again, "what is evolution", then that means your probably just trying to get at me with you highly educated mind.
http://www.dietandbody.com/alternativemedicine/article1050.html

Heres another interesting site.

P.S "brad if you have no idea why i said that.....", that had nothing to do with my idea about evolution, that was the way i percieved your attitude from when you said "did you post in the wrong forum", which is always difficult in a forum.
Opeth
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39 posted 04-20-2004 08:43 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Intelligence does not come from the heart, but from the mind. Yet, it is over-rated. Wisdome - the ability to critically think is more important than intelligence, alone.

I know many people that can express themselves with obscure words and whom have read much literature, but they find themselves drowning in the knowledge they have collected.



"I have gone away. The bed is cold and empty. Trees bend their boughs toward the earth. And nighttime birds float as black faces.
croyles
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40 posted 04-20-2004 09:01 PM       View Profile for croyles   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for croyles

doesnt anyone know that the phrase "true intelligence comes from the heart" is a metaphor, it implies that if you enjoy all intelligent subjects and so on, you will learn and generally do better.

Opeth, you are right about that, people see that as intelligent, and then try to get as much of it as possible. What some people often forget that comes into play, is imagination/ideas etc. Thats what i think.
Aenimal
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41 posted 04-20-2004 09:19 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

quote:
An absolutely brilliant man, Raph. Genius, even. But seemingly still a specialist?


You're right, but I think that's a fault of science, it's become too compartmentalized. It's not a lack of potential in humans but a lack of cross fertilization between the different fields of science. What Newton and DaVinci had in common was hermetic and alchemical thought  which linked all aspects of science, psychology and medicine into a whole.

quote:
If you're talking about society, I can't necessarily disagree. I don't think you're describing individuals, though. Always remember Sturgeon's Law: Ninety percent of everything is crap.


I should have been more specific, I am actually speaking about individuals. I'm reffering to capabilites within the human species. Society as a whole is a hole. The key is in the individual.

Brad
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42 posted 04-20-2004 09:35 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
P.S "brad if you have no idea why i said that.....", that had nothing to do with my idea about evolution, that was the way i percieved your attitude from when you said "did you post in the wrong forum", which is always difficult in a forum.


Ahhh, thanks for clarifying that. The only reason I asked if you posted in the wrong forum is that this one tends to be a bit more advesarial than others (here at Piptalk), and people can sometimes get a little rattled with the sudden change in mood.

By all means, share your ideas.
Even if they are still 'in process' -- I do the same thing on occasion.

But I still don't think you understand evolution and the mechanisms involved.

Brad
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43 posted 04-20-2004 09:41 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

quote:
doesnt anyone know that the phrase "true intelligence comes from the heart" is a metaphor, it implies that if you enjoy all intelligent subjects and so on, you will learn and generally do better.


Unfortunately, that's not what it means here. 'Heart' is, often enough, contrasted with mind or thought in such a way that minds and thoughts are actually seen as a detriment to 'what you really think' as opposed to being too rational (cold, unemotional, etc.).

Local Rebel
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44 posted 04-20-2004 09:56 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:

You're right, but I think that's a fault of science, it's become too compartmentalized. It's not a lack of potential in humans but a lack of cross fertilization between the different fields of science. What Newton and DaVinci had in common was hermetic and alchemical thought  which linked all aspects of science, psychology and medicine into a whole.



I think it's both actually Raph.  Building on information succesively from one generation to the next gets to the point of precluding multi-disciplinary capability in  a single individual.  Which is why cross-functional teams are becoming more and more essential to problem solving.  

This is why you often catch me saying what seemingly looks like higher order is more likely higher disorder -- entropy wins.

There are reniasance men around -- we tend to marginalize them as either ego-maniacs or loons.  

I like Hawkings -- but -- comparatively speaking (in accomplishment) he was no Einstein.. or Newton, or even an Edison.
Local Rebel
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45 posted 04-20-2004 10:07 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

It would be helpful to get some terms defined here;

Knowledge -- Specific information, data, or the sum of same.

Intellect -- The capacity to store/retrieve knowledge or learn and understand.  Also the ability to think abstractly.

Wisdom -- The ability to judge or apply judgement -- applied knowledge and intellect -- the ability to plan a correct course of action for instance.  A function of intellect.
Aenimal
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46 posted 04-21-2004 03:41 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

I understand what you're saying I still don't think it's a lack of potential in the species, just a lack of progressive practices.
croyles
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47 posted 04-21-2004 07:08 PM       View Profile for croyles   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for croyles

i never said it was a lack of potential, i said our potentiol was unused.
Opeth
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48 posted 04-22-2004 07:52 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"I like Hawkings -- but -- comparatively speaking (in accomplishment) he was no Einstein.. or Newton, or even an Edison."

~ But the "jury is still out" regarding Hawkings. He can't be equally compared to Newton, Edison, or Einstein until the "jury  reaches its verdict.

Besides, Mr. Hawkings did appear on an episode of The Simpsons - Newton never did that!

"I have gone away. The bed is cold and empty. Trees bend their boughs toward the earth. And nighttime birds float as black faces.

Aenimal
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49 posted 04-22-2004 03:42 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

croyles the last comment wasn't meant for you

Opeth actually Newton made an appearance, well his legs did lol Professor Frink managed to teleport half of him into the present.
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