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Motherhood and Marriage

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Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002

25 posted 04-06-2004 08:38 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Hey guys, I wasn't ignoring you, I was just down with a stomach virus for a couple of days.

Ron, I see it as Socialism too. I tend to see the mindset that was spawned by the sexual revolution (the free love, do your own thing, if it feels good do it, who does it hurt?, pleasure without responsiblity mentality) more as a creating of the fertile ground for the development and growth of Socialism than as a symptom of it. And I'm not talking so much about bad decisions in our choice of marriage partner. I'm referring more to the mentality of those who have never been married, and those who never intend to be married, or someday may hope to be married, but who choose to be sexually active, oftentimes with 'no strings attached' in reference to the sex partner, and either through choice or by accident have children. What better way to ensure a power base than to cultivate as acceptable in people's minds behavior (in the guise of "liberation"), that will ultimately, in a majority of the cases, lead to dependence on THEM? The Socialist State becomes the surrogate husband/father that more and more people need. In my opinion those of the Socialist persuasion in society fostered the thinking that led to the behavior that created the need that they were standing by waiting, ready, willing and able to fulfill (courtesy of the public purse, of course.) I guess it could be viewed as a viscious cycle, though, the one feeding into and strenghtening the other, being both a cause and a symptom all at the same time.

Brad, I couldn't open the article but from  what I've read here it sounds like it could definitely be a part of, and contributing to, the overall larger problem.  
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea

26 posted 04-06-2004 08:58 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

See, I must have just not stated this clearly, because you and Denise seem to ahve the same impression of what I said. I'm not against marriage. But the fact that it is, to some, the only true ideal strieks me as patriarchal, as does the acceptance of this ideal and the rejection of all others.

No, I'm pretty sure I understand that part. I've stated before that our present views of marriage and family are contingent -- that is, dependent on our time and place. In the past, they were different, in the future, they may be as well. Our difference, I think, is that you think other options are easily available, I don't. They are available, it can be done, but it's not simply a matter of choice.

It's an interesting point... but I'm not sure I see how it pertains here? My point wasn't that it sucks when men go away (it does) but rather- why should it have to be such a problem, and can't we fix that problem in a way besides marriage? Maybe it would be more appropriate in Stephen's thread. I could be wrong... could you explain the relevance to me?

Because the only solution you've posited so far is what Ron calls socialism. As we weaken the idea of personal responsibility -- it sucks but he should be free to do what he wants -- how can we then ask other men and women, people who don't know us, to give money to help out? Don't get me wrong, I think the idea is correct -- it's in their best interest to help us out (and we them)-- but, at the same time, we have to deal with or accept the idea of personal responsibility. That is, personal and public responsibility are really the same thing. I don't see how you can have one without the other.

Also- the logical error thing- I see where you're coming from, and I know she wasn't trying to offend me.... you're saying that the offense was due to my categorization of myself in line with what she's speaking out against... right? But it's true...

Do you know how many demographic models you fit into right now? Anywhere from where you live to what you read or eat to whether you're left handed or right handed. I was adopted, I may or may not fit into that particular model. I'm left handed. I may or may not fit into that model. Statistics are useful to the individual, only in that they can make us aware of tendencies -- things perhaps we should steer away from or whatever. But they can never define you. They can, I suppose, help you make choices, but they can't define those choices for you. There are many things in this world that are true, but not everything that is true is useful for you in your life.

Believing that a statistic somehow defines you is akin to following the astrology page.

"Isn't there a difference between 'a family' and 'my family'

Good question. I think a lot of us tend to visualize 'my family' when we think of 'a family.' However, it also has to do with what you've been exposed to. I know people with two moms... with a mom who went boyfriend to boyfriend, with moms in a busive realtionships, with mom's in good relationships, with single moms, with traditional nuclear families. So when I think of family, I think of all those things.

Indeed, but my next question will be slightly different from a description.

What kind of family do you want to have?

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