Statesboro, GA, USA
You and others are stretching scripture as far as it may go to try and make it out as some heavenly judgement made against homosexuality . . . Don't you think if the bible was meant to express such judgements it should say those things itself?
" You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)
"Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them." (Romans 1:18-32)
" ... the law is not made for a righteous one, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and anything else that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust." (1 Timothy 1:9-11)
" But I intend to remind you, you once knowing these things, that the Lord having delivered a people out of the land of Egypt, in the second place destroyed the ones not believing. And those angels not having kept their first place, but having deserted their dwelling-place, He has kept in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of a great Day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, and going away after other flesh, laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire." (Jude 5-7)
you still don't have evidence yourself from the bible because there is no such evidence in the bible to acertain that a judgement is being made on homosexuality. Do you think I ignore what you say about acknowledging the historical and cultural standing? I do not. My point is what you are saying is NOT in the bible.
Not in the bible?? Please go back and read the above scriptures. Essorant, my first line of argumentation DID come precisely from the obvious words and context of these bible verses. When that didn't satisfy you, I went further and discussed how homosexuality was generally viewed in the surrounding cultures of that time period. Then I reasoned many points as to why the Biblical writers would never make a distinction between your so-called "good" and "bad" versions of homosexuality.
So, you see, I have presented a case from the Bible itself (just take a poll, and see what others think these scriptures are saying at face value, when they read them at first glance) ... and also I've included some extrabiblical information to support what's in the bible.
But you have not referred either to the texts OR to anything extrabiblical. You have only given comments and opinions about the texts ... not one thing you've said, mentions anything within the texts. Don't you think there might be something lacking in that approach? Someone reading your responses can't even begin to take your argument that "the bible doesn't say that" seriously, if you don't even attempt to explain or reconcile any of the parts where the bible at least SEEMS to say the thing you are denying.
My argument is simple really ... Here it is in four statements.
1) The several Bible texts at least appear, to the plain reader, to condemn homosexual behavior without any exceptions mentioned.
2) The foundational doctrines of the Bible, beginning with creation in Genesis, only tend to support the idea that God intended only men and women to relate to each other in a sexual way.
3) Extrabiblical knowledge of Hebrew culture, and pagan culture regarding homosexuality only tends to confirm that the Jews and early Christians condemned homosexuality. At the very least, such knowledge does no damage to the assertion that the authors of the Biblical texts meant what the texts all seem to say at first glance.
4) A more "homosexual friendly" interpretation requires one to ingore much context ... both in Jewish culture, and in Pagan culture, and requires one to derive a meaning from the text that seems contrary to what the text actually says, depending on a "He really didn't mean what he said" kind of reasoning, which has no basis. The only basis is our current cultural sympathy with homosexuality as "civil rights" and popular sentimentality.
the bible's attention goes to no such lengths about anything.
Really? If you won't comment on the Bible, how can I know this? I personally feel that Romans 1 goes into a substantial amount of detail about homosexuality. But let's start there ... Why (specifically, using the text of Romans 1) do you feel otherwise?
Trying to make something out as if it is, is taking everything out of proportion to try and please your own belief and judgement.
The same would be true of "trying to make something out as if it isn't", wouldn't it? Couldn't you also do that to preserve YOUR own belief and judgement?
I feel pretty confident that my judgement on the issue is derived from the biblical text, (which I believe to be authoritative). And I can go into detail about the text itself and defend why I think it means what it does.
A question for you ... Did you honestly derive your conclusion about what the Bible says from the texts themselves, or did you have a fairly strong wish or opinion before you read them?
If you say "No, I derived my conclusion from the texts themselves", I would like to ask you to defend that notion USING those texts.
Since you haven't done this very simple thing thus far, your argument is still lacking.