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Philosophy 101
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what is reality
| Philosophy 101 |
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what is reality |
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Vagabond Member
since 2004-01-23
Posts 163
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What is reality? How do you know we are real? Is this just a very good dream and that this fourm and all the people will vanish when i awake? I'm i real? Are you? Vagabon the Lost One |
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| © Copyright 2004 Jerome Hollon - All Rights Reserved | |||
Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
If you're not real, why should I answer you? And if I'm not real, why should you want an answer?  Stephen |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Three teenagers.. Two cats... 10 loads of laundry... 2 litter boxes.. and enough energy to cry about it all. |
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Vagabond Member
since 2004-01-23
Posts 163 |
may i ask about the last reply? I'm not going to answer the first one Vagabon the Lost One |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Stephan: I guess that means you're not real, dude. Bummer. By the way ... you have the most impressive word-count-to-post ratio I've ever seen in someone who doesn't really exist. Vagabond: Regarding Susan's post, it's something you have to experience to truly appreciate.  In answer to your post, I would ask how knowing whether or not I am real really changes anything. As to whether or not I think you're real, I believe you're real enough for me to reply to your post. Jim |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
And ultimately what does it matter? It's something we can't answer isn't it. I mean...we've likely all heard the 'what if we're just someone's dream' theory, or someone's joke. (Many people supply God as the 'someone') The thing is, even if we aren't real we won't know until the bubble bursts - if it ever should. And then we'll be nothing maybe, so we won't know. Or we'll be the products of a new dream, and we won't know. Or there might be some other fate in wait for us... Damn...it all feels very fatalistic. Thing is, life feels real enough to me right now, with all it's attendants joys and hurts. Go outside on a summer day, alone, into the trees. And just rest. Or float in the ocean, staring at the sky and clouds. Although that sounds all airy-fairy, you might find an answer.  K |
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Vagabond Member
since 2004-01-23
Posts 163 |
all irelivate(sorry even spell check don't recognize it) Vagabon the Lost One |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
quote: Exactly - your questions have little practical value and are irrelevant to everyday life. That, I think, is the point most of us were trying to make. If you discover your self is the only reality, and take offense to what I have just written, then you have essentially offended yourself and can't really be justified in feeling any indignation. The only real use of Egoism is as a means of escape from moral responsibility for one's actions. Something Susan didn't mention, but about which I believe she would agree with me, is that our view of self changes when we become parents. Responsibility for the care and well-being of another - sometimes at the expense of our personal wants and desires and also, at times, requiring significant sacrifice - has a persistant way of reminding you that there is more to life than self. Jim |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Those things I said above... those are reality. As Jim said, children seem to define life, hence reality. I don't know if you actually wanted a real answer to your question. I mean those are the kind of questions I asked myself when I was a kid.. I don't need to now, life's emotional roller coaster is the pinch... "sit on top of the world and tell me how you feel...'cause what you feel is what I feel for you.." |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
There is only one thing that is not real. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
I think something unreal cannot exist. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Unreality has to unreal to be real, that is the one exception I think |
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Vagabond Member
since 2004-01-23
Posts 163 |
the disregard everything i say for they are all lies Vagabon the Lost One |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
"Unreality" IS real. The moment you conceive of something, it becomes real, even if only as a concept. |
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Jason Lyle Senior Member
since 2003-02-07
Posts 1438With my darkling |
answer the first reply, and presto, you have your answer. Jason |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
But "unreality" isn't "real" in the same sense my half-full, luke-warm cup of coffee is real. "Unreality" has no objective character - in fact, I would say you'd have to twist the definition of "real" in order to call the "unreal" real. You may be able to conceptualize the "unreal" in your mind, but that doesn't make it "real" in the philosophical or actual senses. Jim |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Can I get some of that luke warm coffee? |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Might be cold by the time it makes it down to the land of dimpled chads. |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
I can nuke it. *pouting* why must a bare the burden of those insufferable chads? The lady that took my order at the sandwich shop looked and talked like a friend that died a couple of months ago....more reality. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Jim - But what is that cup of coffee other than a concept in your mind? Do your hands really feel the cup? Or does you brain tell you that they are feeling it? Even what is normally considered "solidity" is still a concept that is tucked away in that big brain of yours. Why is something you can't touch less real than your cup of coffee? You can't touch protons, neutrons, love, etc., so are they less real for being a concept rather than a physical "reality"? |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Christopher: The difference, again, is the objective character. My secretary can see my coffee cup, and that it is half full. She can touch the cup and feel that the contents are no longer hot. The attorney in the office next door can do the same thing. Let's say now that, instead of the cup of coffee, I say, "There is a jack-o-lope sitting on my desk." Jack-o-lopes are imaginary, and have no objective character - that is, my secretary, or the attorney in the next office, cannot experience the imaginary jack-o-lope with their senses. quote: The existence of protons and neutrons is verifiable - emotions are internal states that are normally only observable by others by how those emotions cause us to behave. But, assuming we consider observable behavior to be outward manifestations of our internal states, then I don't have a problem with emotions being real. If we can ascertain the existence of black holes by observing the effect they have on their surroundings, then I see no reason why the same cannot be true for emotions. Jim |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
TV? a word in the dictionary? a noun? from dictionary.com re·al·i·ty The quality or state of being actual or true. One, such as a person, an entity, or an event, that is actual: “the weight of history and political realities” (Benno C. Schmidt, Jr.). The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence. That which exists objectively and in fact: Your observations do not seem to be about reality. from acronym finder R E A L I T Y: Rhymes Equal Actual Life in the Youth |
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Vagabond Member
since 2004-01-23
Posts 163 |
with in the nutshell there is a nut, dido with questions Vagabon the Lost One |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
Okay, I know this one... it's like those IQ test questions... blue is to sky as green is to ______. so okay if there is a nut within a nut shell then there is a quest within a question??? Did I get it?????? |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Interesting points, Jim. quote:Then would the recognition of an unreal object fall into this same category? We can discuss a jack-a-lope, even recognizing its "non-existence", all while exhibiting behaviour spurred by said discussion. If emotions are recognized as real by the connected behaviour, isn't this the same? (I think I just repeated myself...) |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"Unreality" IS real." I agree with you because everything is real. But the very thing that makes unreality real is its being unreal. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Ess: 1. Everything is real 2. The unreal is part of everything 3. The unreal is real Doesn't that look a little circular to you? Chris: Out of time. Will get back to you. Jim |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Dang. So the stuffed jack-a-lope I saw in Wall Drug, South Dakota, in 1970 was a figment of my imagination, and not real at all? Wasn't it really stuffed? Or did a figment, in this instance, become a non-existant reality? I touched it. Saw it. Had I gotten close enough to smell it, I am sure it would have resembled dust, hair, and dried bone to my olfactory senses. I didn't hear it make a sound, possibly because it was "scared stiff"...*wink*... So while I believe I can safely say that I may never see a "real" jack-a-lope in life, I do know jack-a-lopes exist in some form and therefore, makes them "real". No? |
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Vagabond Member
since 2004-01-23
Posts 163 |
how do you know that the nut inside the nutshell has not been taken by pest of overgrown tree rats. Or is the nut inside you figment of imagination and not real? Same with the questions Vagabon the Lost One |
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Sudhir Iyer Member Ascendant
since 2000-04-26
Posts 6943Mumbai, India : now in Belgium |
in each question, there is "u" n "i" and there are long queues as well... but "i" am not in a nutshell there's only "u" |
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Susan Caldwell Member Rara Avis
since 2002-12-27
Posts 8348Florida |
*sigh* Let's talk perspective then... and yes..that is rhetorical. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Vagabond & Sudhir: You guys have lost me. What does any of this have to do with the topic? Christopher: Emotions are determants that affect the magnitude, frequency, and intensity of behavior. In our "verbal behavior" of this thread, we are responding to what one another is writing about jack-a-lopes - not to the jack-a-lopes themselves. Emotions at an interesting facet to the study of behavior and I'm merely a novice. So, I suppose I could be wrong. Sunshine: See how the definition of "real" gets muddled when we confuse representations of living creatures with the genuine, living articles? Jim |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
"See how the definition of "real" gets muddled when we confuse representations of living creatures with the genuine, living articles?" Good point..as no definition of "real" was stated in teh beginning nor was any definition of "unreal". So each persons perception of or understanding of the definition clouds the conversation/debate with no two people assured they are in fact discussing the same concept. :-) |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
Yup.  |
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Cpat Hair
since 2001-06-05
Posts 11793 |
re·al·i·ty [ ree állətee ] (plural re·al·i·ties) noun 1. real existence: actual being or existence, as opposed to an imaginary, idealized, or false nature 2. all that actually exists or happens: everything that actually does or could exist or happen in real life 3. something that exist or happens: something that has real existence and must be dealt with in real life a vision that ignores the realities of the business world 4. type of existence: a kind of existence or universe, either connected with or independent from other kinds fantastic notions of alternative realities 5. philosophy totality of real things: the totality of real things in the world, independent of people’s knowledge or perception of them Which of the definitions are we discussing? |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
Why not discuss 1-4? Considering the definition of five, I don't think we can discuss it--er, realistically. |
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
Novice? Nah, Jim. Then - What about the reality of a concept? I know there's a separation here between a solid reality & an emotional reality, and I'd like to throw conceptual reality into the works. Are there different levels of reality? I'm not thinking so much as different degrees, rather, different types. (Not more, not less, just different).
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Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-08-02
Posts 8296Purgatorial Incarceration |
quote: I think it would be much more interesting to discuss "one" midi-k. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
1. Everything is real √ 3. The unreal is real √ |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
"Are there different levels of reality? I'm not thinking so much as different degrees, rather, different types. (Not more, not less, just different). Christopher, I think you are on the right track, indeed! |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
nodding. Having just stepped off the Tilt-a-Whirl, I feel I'm hardly qualified to answer the question, but I do love eavesdropping. OH. It's not eavesdropping if I keep popping in like this, is it? I'll be in the back, C--taking notes. and btw? Thanks for not "dismissing" me for knowing that I do not know. Yer still a doll. carry on, good people. |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
Replace 'Solid' with 'Perceptual' Christopher and I'd be more in agreement. |
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Essorant Member Elite
since 2002-08-10
Posts 4769Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada |
Everything is real whether you perceive it or not. Even this happy face |
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Local Rebel Member Ascendant
since 1999-12-21
Posts 5767Southern Abstentia |
But what you perceive Ess and what I perceive may be completely different things -- which is why -- eyewitness testimony in a court of law is often very inconclusive. But, when I perceive someone is smiling at me.. I smile back |
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Vagabond Member
since 2004-01-23
Posts 163 |
Ess how do you know that everything is real? Is a caleiker real? The caleiker is a part lion part cat that eats dogs that my grandfathre Clienne created in his writeing The Poor Mans Jurnal. Vagabon the Lost One |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Ess: If anything is unreal, then everything cannot be real. #1 is an argument that cannot be sustained without expanding the definition of real to encompass that which has only token or imaginary existence. #3 is a contradiction. Here are some common definitions of reality: 1. The quality or state of being actual or true. 2. The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence. 3. That which exists objectively and in fact: Your observations do not seem to be about reality. Are you saying everything is actual or true? Or are you saying that everything possesses either actuality, existence or essence? Or are you saying that everything exists objectively and in fact? Or do you define the word "reality" differently from common usage? Jim |
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Vagabond Member
since 2004-01-23
Posts 163 |
If nothing is unreal then unreal is not real! Vagabon the Lost One |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Wow, it's 'existence' all over again. The meaning of a word is dependent on its relationship to other words (Jim, that's just another way of saying how it is used). If you attempt to explain real without reference to unreal, you explain away the utility of the word. And we still need away to explain the difference between, say, Superman and Christopher Reeves. |
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croyles Member
since 2004-01-27
Posts 102 |
Everybody creates their own reality, yet we all have some of the same reality. Thats how different opinions are created, and years after years we are learning to be tolerant with other peoples point of views. |
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