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Passions in Poetry

what is reality

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Vagabond
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since 01-23-2004
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0 posted 02-17-2004 08:11 AM       View Profile for Vagabond   Email Vagabond   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Vagabond


What is reality? How do you know we are real? Is this just a very good dream and that this fourm and all the people will vanish when i awake? I'm i real? Are you?

Vagabon the Lost One

Stephanos
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1 posted 02-17-2004 03:04 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

If you're not real, why should I answer you?
And if I'm not real, why should you want an answer?



Stephen
Susan Caldwell
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since 12-27-2002
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2 posted 02-17-2004 03:09 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Three teenagers..

Two cats...

10 loads of laundry...

2 litter boxes..

and enough energy to cry about it all.
Vagabond
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3 posted 02-17-2004 03:21 PM       View Profile for Vagabond   Email Vagabond   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Vagabond

may i ask about the last reply?
I'm not going to answer the first one



Vagabon the Lost One
jbouder
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4 posted 02-17-2004 03:43 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Stephan:

I guess that means you're not real, dude.  Bummer. By the way ... you have the most impressive word-count-to-post ratio I've ever seen in someone who doesn't really exist.  

Vagabond:

Regarding Susan's post, it's something you have to experience to truly appreciate.  

In answer to your post, I would ask how knowing whether or not I am real really changes anything.  As to whether or not I think you're real, I believe you're real enough for me to reply to your post.

Jim
Severn
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5 posted 02-17-2004 04:16 PM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

And ultimately what does it matter? It's something we can't answer isn't it. I mean...we've likely all heard the 'what if we're just someone's dream' theory, or someone's joke. (Many people supply God as the 'someone') The thing is, even if we aren't real we won't know until the bubble bursts - if it ever should. And then we'll be nothing maybe, so we won't know. Or we'll be the products of a new dream, and we won't know. Or there might be some other fate in wait for us...

Damn...it all feels very fatalistic. Thing is, life feels real enough to me right now, with all it's attendants joys and hurts. Go outside on a summer day, alone, into the trees. And just rest. Or float in the ocean, staring at the sky and clouds. Although that sounds all airy-fairy, you might find an answer.

K
Vagabond
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6 posted 02-17-2004 06:17 PM       View Profile for Vagabond   Email Vagabond   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Vagabond

all irelivate(sorry even spell check don't recognize it)

Vagabon the Lost One

jbouder
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7 posted 02-18-2004 12:22 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

quote:
all irelivate


Exactly - your questions have little practical value and are irrelevant to everyday life.  That, I think, is the point most of us were trying to make.

If you discover your self is the only reality, and take offense to what I have just written, then you have essentially offended yourself and can't really be justified in feeling any indignation.  The only real use of Egoism is as a means of escape from moral responsibility for one's actions.

Something Susan didn't mention, but about which I believe she would agree with me, is that our view of self changes when we become parents.  Responsibility for the care and well-being of another - sometimes at the expense of our personal wants and desires and also, at times, requiring significant sacrifice - has a persistant way of reminding you that there is more to life than self.

Jim
Susan Caldwell
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8 posted 02-18-2004 01:02 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Those things I said above...

those are reality.

As Jim said, children seem to define life, hence reality.

I don't know if you actually wanted a real answer to your question.  I mean those are the kind of questions I asked myself when I was a kid..

I don't need to now, life's emotional roller coaster is the pinch...

"sit on top of the world and tell me how you feel...'cause what you feel is what I feel for you.."
~Dido~

Essorant
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9 posted 02-18-2004 04:23 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

There is only one thing that is not real.  
Christopher
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10 posted 02-18-2004 05:21 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

I think something unreal cannot exist.
Essorant
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11 posted 02-19-2004 12:44 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Unreality has to unreal to be real, that is the one exception I think
Vagabond
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12 posted 02-19-2004 08:04 AM       View Profile for Vagabond   Email Vagabond   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Vagabond

the disregard everything i say for they are all lies


Vagabon the Lost One

Christopher
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13 posted 02-19-2004 10:30 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

"Unreality" IS real.

The moment you conceive of something, it becomes real, even if only as a concept.
Jason Lyle
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14 posted 02-19-2004 11:12 AM       View Profile for Jason Lyle   Email Jason Lyle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jason Lyle

answer the first reply, and presto, you have your answer.

Jason
jbouder
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15 posted 02-19-2004 11:12 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

But "unreality" isn't "real" in the same sense my half-full, luke-warm cup of coffee is real.  "Unreality" has no objective character - in fact, I would say you'd have to twist the definition of "real" in order to call the "unreal" real.  You may be able to conceptualize the "unreal" in your mind, but that doesn't make it "real" in the philosophical or actual senses.

Jim
Susan Caldwell
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16 posted 02-19-2004 11:27 AM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Can I get some of that luke warm coffee?

jbouder
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17 posted 02-19-2004 11:42 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Might be cold by the time it makes it down to the land of dimpled chads.
Susan Caldwell
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18 posted 02-19-2004 12:25 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

I can nuke it.

*pouting* why must a bare the burden of those insufferable chads?

The lady that took my order at the sandwich shop looked and talked like a friend that died a couple of months ago....more reality.
Christopher
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19 posted 02-19-2004 12:36 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Jim - But what is that cup of coffee other than a concept in your mind? Do your hands really feel the cup? Or does you brain tell you that they are feeling it?

Even what is normally considered "solidity" is still a concept that is tucked away in that big brain of yours.

Why is something you can't touch less real than your cup of coffee? You can't touch protons, neutrons, love, etc., so are they less real for being a concept rather than a physical "reality"?
jbouder
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20 posted 02-19-2004 01:19 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Christopher:

The difference, again, is the objective character.  My secretary can see my coffee cup, and that it is half full.  She can touch the cup and feel that the contents are no longer hot.  The attorney in the office next door can do the same thing.

Let's say now that, instead of the cup of coffee, I say, "There is a jack-o-lope sitting on my desk." Jack-o-lopes are imaginary, and have no objective character - that is, my secretary, or the attorney in the next office, cannot experience the imaginary jack-o-lope with their senses.

quote:
Why is something you can't touch less real than your cup of coffee? You can't touch protons, neutrons, love, etc., so are they less real for being a concept rather than a physical "reality"?


The existence of protons and neutrons is verifiable - emotions are internal states that are normally only observable by others by how those emotions cause us to behave.  But, assuming we consider observable behavior to be outward manifestations of our internal states, then I don't have a problem with emotions being real.  If we can ascertain the existence of black holes by observing the effect they have on their surroundings, then I see no reason why the same cannot be true for emotions.

Jim

Sudhir Iyer
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21 posted 02-19-2004 01:44 PM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

TV?

a word in the dictionary?

a noun?

from dictionary.com

re·al·i·ty    

The quality or state of being actual or true.

One, such as a person, an entity, or an event, that is actual: “the weight of history and political realities” (Benno C. Schmidt, Jr.).

The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence.

That which exists objectively and in fact: Your observations do not seem to be about reality.

from acronym finder

R E A L I T Y: Rhymes Equal Actual Life in the Youth  
Vagabond
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22 posted 02-19-2004 03:40 PM       View Profile for Vagabond   Email Vagabond   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Vagabond

with in the nutshell there is a nut, dido with questions

Vagabon the Lost One

Susan Caldwell
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23 posted 02-19-2004 03:53 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

Okay, I know this one...

it's like those IQ test questions...

blue is to sky as green is to ______.

so okay if there is a nut within a nut shell then there is a quest within a question???

Did I get it??????

Christopher
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24 posted 02-19-2004 04:18 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Interesting points, Jim.
quote:
But, assuming we consider observable behavior to be outward manifestations of our internal states, then I don't have a problem with emotions being real.
Then would the recognition of an unreal object fall into this same category? We can discuss a jack-a-lope, even recognizing its "non-existence", all while exhibiting behaviour spurred by said discussion. If emotions are recognized as real by the connected behaviour, isn't this the same? (I think I just repeated myself...)
 
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