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Passions in Poetry

what is reality

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Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
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25 posted 02-19-2004 04:26 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"Unreality" IS real."

I agree with you because everything is real.  
But the very thing that makes unreality real is its being unreal.  
jbouder
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26 posted 02-19-2004 05:13 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Ess:

1. Everything is real
2. The unreal is part of everything
3. The unreal is real

Doesn't that look a little circular to you?

Chris:

Out of time.  Will get back to you.

Jim
Sunshine
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27 posted 02-19-2004 07:01 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

Dang.  So the stuffed jack-a-lope I saw in Wall Drug, South Dakota, in 1970 was a figment of my imagination, and not real at all?

Wasn't it really stuffed?  Or did a figment, in this instance, become a non-existant reality?

I touched it.  Saw it.  Had I gotten close enough to smell it, I am sure it would have resembled dust, hair, and dried bone to my olfactory senses.  I didn't hear it make a sound, possibly because it was "scared stiff"...*wink*...

So while I believe I can safely say that I may never see a "real" jack-a-lope in life, I do know jack-a-lopes exist in some form and therefore, makes them "real".

No?

Vagabond
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28 posted 02-20-2004 08:18 AM       View Profile for Vagabond   Email Vagabond   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Vagabond

how do you know that the nut inside the nutshell has not been taken by pest of overgrown tree rats. Or is the nut inside you figment of imagination and not real? Same with the questions

Vagabon the Lost One

Sudhir Iyer
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29 posted 02-20-2004 09:44 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

in each question, there is "u" n "i" and there are long queues as well...

but "i" am not in a nutshell there's only "u"
Susan Caldwell
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30 posted 02-20-2004 02:51 PM       View Profile for Susan Caldwell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Susan Caldwell

*sigh*

Let's talk perspective then...

and yes..that is rhetorical.
jbouder
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31 posted 02-20-2004 04:29 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Vagabond & Sudhir:

You guys have lost me.  What does any of this have to do with the topic?

Christopher:

Emotions are determants that affect the magnitude, frequency, and intensity of behavior.  In our "verbal behavior" of this thread, we are responding to what one another is writing about jack-a-lopes - not to the jack-a-lopes themselves.

Emotions at an interesting facet to the study of behavior and I'm merely a novice.  So, I suppose I could be wrong.

Sunshine:

See how the definition of "real" gets muddled when we confuse representations of living creatures with the genuine, living articles?

Jim
Cpat Hair
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32 posted 02-20-2004 04:48 PM       View Profile for Cpat Hair   Email Cpat Hair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cpat Hair

"See how the definition of "real" gets muddled when we confuse representations of living creatures with the genuine, living articles?"

Good point..as no definition of "real" was stated in teh beginning nor was any definition of "unreal". So each persons perception of or understanding of the definition clouds the conversation/debate with no two people assured they are in fact discussing the same concept.

:-)

Sunshine
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33 posted 02-20-2004 05:04 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine


Yup.
Cpat Hair
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34 posted 02-20-2004 06:16 PM       View Profile for Cpat Hair   Email Cpat Hair   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Cpat Hair

re·al·i·ty [ ree állətee ] (plural re·al·i·ties)

noun  

1. real existence: actual being or existence, as opposed to an imaginary, idealized, or false nature


2. all that actually exists or happens: everything that actually does or could exist or happen in real life


3. something that exist or happens: something that has real existence and must be dealt with in real life
a vision that ignores the realities of the business world


4. type of existence: a kind of existence or universe, either connected with or independent from other kinds
fantastic notions of alternative realities


5. philosophy totality of real things: the totality of real things in the world, independent of people’s knowledge or perception of them


Which of the definitions are we discussing?
serenity blaze
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35 posted 02-20-2004 07:06 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Why not discuss 1-4?

Considering the definition of five, I don't think we can discuss it--er, realistically.

Christopher
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36 posted 02-20-2004 08:34 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Novice? Nah, Jim.

Then - What about the reality of a concept? I know there's a separation here between a solid reality & an emotional reality, and I'd like to throw conceptual reality into the works.

Are there different levels of reality? I'm not thinking so much as different degrees, rather, different types. (Not more, not less, just different).
  • Solid Reality - That which we can interpret with our five senses.
  • Emotional Reality - That which we attribute to (whatever you want to contribute them to... not even going to go there! )
  • Conceptual Reality - That which we can conceive of has its own reality separate from the above two, but still with an existence of its own.
Make any sense? Perhaps "reality" (as mentioned above) is to restrictive of a term?
Christopher
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37 posted 02-20-2004 08:37 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
five: The cardinal number equal to 4 + 1.

four: The cardinal number equal to 3 + 1.

three: The cardinal number equal to 2 + 1.

two: The cardinal number equal to the sum of 1 + 1.

one: The cardinal number, represented by the symbol 1, designating the first such unit in a series.


I think it would be much more interesting to discuss "one" midi-k.
Essorant
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38 posted 02-20-2004 08:43 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

1. Everything is real  √
2. The unreal is part of everything
3. The unreal is real  √
Essorant
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39 posted 02-20-2004 08:49 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"Are there different levels of reality? I'm not thinking so much as different degrees, rather, different types. (Not more, not less, just different).

Christopher,

I think you are on the right track, indeed!

  
serenity blaze
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40 posted 02-20-2004 09:01 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

nodding.

Having just stepped off the Tilt-a-Whirl, I feel I'm hardly qualified to answer the question, but I do love eavesdropping.

OH.

It's not eavesdropping if I keep popping in like this, is it?

I'll be in the back, C--taking notes.

and btw? Thanks for not "dismissing" me for knowing that I do not know.

Yer still a doll.

carry on, good people.
Local Rebel
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41 posted 02-20-2004 10:38 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Replace 'Solid' with 'Perceptual' Christopher and I'd be more in agreement.
Essorant
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42 posted 02-20-2004 10:52 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Everything is real whether you perceive it or not.

Even this happy face
Local Rebel
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43 posted 02-20-2004 10:59 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

But what you perceive Ess and what I perceive may be completely different things -- which is why -- eyewitness testimony in a court of law is often very inconclusive.

But, when I perceive someone is smiling at me.. I smile back  
Vagabond
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44 posted 02-24-2004 08:12 AM       View Profile for Vagabond   Email Vagabond   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Vagabond

Ess how do you know that everything is real? Is a caleiker real? The caleiker is a part lion part cat that eats dogs that my grandfathre Clienne created in his writeing The Poor Mans Jurnal.

Vagabon the Lost One

jbouder
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45 posted 02-24-2004 11:25 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Ess:

If anything is unreal, then everything cannot be real.

#1 is an argument that cannot be sustained without expanding the definition of real to encompass that which has only token or imaginary existence.  #3 is a contradiction.

Here are some common definitions of reality:

1. The quality or state of being actual or true.

2. The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence.

3. That which exists objectively and in fact: Your observations do not seem to be about reality.

Are you saying everything is actual or true?  Or are you saying that everything possesses either actuality, existence or essence?  Or are you saying that everything exists objectively and in fact?

Or do you define the word "reality" differently from common usage?

Jim
Vagabond
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46 posted 02-24-2004 03:39 PM       View Profile for Vagabond   Email Vagabond   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Vagabond

If nothing is unreal then unreal is not real!

Vagabon the Lost One

Brad
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Jejudo, South Korea


47 posted 02-24-2004 10:05 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Wow, it's 'existence' all over again. The meaning of a word is dependent on its relationship to other words (Jim, that's just another way of saying how it is used). If you attempt to explain real without reference to unreal, you explain away the utility of the word.

And we still need away to explain the difference between, say, Superman and Christopher Reeves.

  
croyles
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48 posted 04-19-2004 06:21 PM       View Profile for croyles   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for croyles

Everybody creates their own reality, yet we all have some of the same reality. Thats how different opinions are created, and years after years we are learning to be tolerant with other peoples point of views.
 
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