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Passions in Poetry

The Passion of the Christ

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Poet4Christ
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0 posted 01-21-2004 08:40 AM       View Profile for Poet4Christ   Email Poet4Christ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Poet4Christ's Home Page   View IP for Poet4Christ

I am no scholar or even an intellectual by any means so I will not try to be, but I would like to know how you fello poets feel about "The Passion of the Christ"  Mel Gibson's movie coming out in February.  Personally I am so excited, in fact I haven't been this excited about a movie since I was a kid.  I understand that there will be differences in doctrine between Catholics and Baptists and Pentecostle and the list goes on and on and on and on.  What I am trying to say is I am sure this film will be picked to death by all sides.  Unfortunately it is the attacking of Christians by Christians that has totally blindsided the things that are really important and even worse this attitude drives others away who are seeking.  It is my belief that we ARE all DIFFERENT creatures and it would only make sense that God could use many many many different ways to reach us according to our needs.  I am not Catholic, but to me thier religion is so beautiful and my friends that are, are incredible devoted Christians.

Sorry about the tangent - What I am so desperately trying to get around to is - The most important thing about this movie is how will it affect those seeking God, how much will it influence the holy spirit to work in others.  I would hope that other believers would go see it not with intentions to analyze it but with an incredible sense of excitement in that it will reach so many lives with the message of Christ.

For those unbelievers, I will totally respect your opinions on the movie, but I would approach them from a different angle.  I would hope that you might venture to see it regardless, for I truly believe it will be a good quality film.

Can't wait - Tim

He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered. Proverbs 28:26

Ringo
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1 posted 01-21-2004 09:35 AM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

I, myself, plan on seeing it out of curiosity more than anything.
The one thing I find amazingly hilarious is that the Jewish folks of the world (no, not all of them) are screaming that the movie blames them for the death of Jesus...
hmmmmm.......
In the bible that I read, it seems to me that it WAS the Jews who were responsible for bringing this "heretic" to justice. It was they who accused Him of Blasphemy and sent him to trial, and, etc. Judas Iscariat sold Him, not to the Romans, but to the church elders (Matthew 26:14, Mark 14:10, Luke 22:4, John 18:3) to betray him. It was these Chief Priests that turned him over to the Romans, which led to His death.
Does this mean that I blame the Jewish faith and all of those who profess it to have been the cause of his death? No,we cannot modern followers of the the Law of David responsible any more than we can blame modern Catholics for the Crusades. What it means is that I thank their ANCESTORS for giving me the faith I have now, and for making it possible.
Just my thoughts.

Cause in my dreams it's always there
The evil face that twists my mind
And brings me to despair.

Opeth
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2 posted 01-21-2004 09:40 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"For those unbelievers, I will totally respect your opinions on the movie, but I would approach them from a different angle.  I would hope that you might venture to see it regardless, for I truly believe it will be a good quality film."

~ I don't relate being an unbliever with one who would not want to see this movie. As an unbeliever, I have recently went to see the live performance of JCS (which is a controversy among christians itself), and is my favorite musical of all-time.

~ The Last Temptation of Christ stirred much controversy too, and unjustly so imo, so it doesn't surprise me the same will happen with this one. I'll probably see it. I don't know if I will go to the theater, but I will eventually watch it.


Stephanos
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3 posted 01-21-2004 10:08 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

I've seen a trailer ... and what I saw was awesome.  It is well done.  It is emotionally moving.  And it is done to portray the grim reality of the crucifixion.  It doesn't try to make the incident look like someone's calm passing in a hospital bed.  I would encourage everyone to see it, believer or not.  

Thumbs up to Mel. (on what I have thus far seen and read)


Stephen.
Ron
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4 posted 01-21-2004 11:09 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

LOL. I haven't seen the Return of the King yet, but I have watched the first two movies in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. They're good, don't get me wrong, but they are still only a very dim reflection of the books. Of course, that didn't surprise me in the least, because the movie is never as good as the book.

I doubt this one will be, either.
Stephanos
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5 posted 01-22-2004 02:05 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Ron,

You haven't seen ROTK?  Shame on you.  You should see it before it leaves the big screen.  It's a great one, though it deviates from the book too much in places.  But then again, I couldn't imagine trying to make Tolkien's text into a movie.  What a daunting task.


But then again ... The crucifixion of Jesus ... What a daunting task.


Stephen.
Aenimal
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6 posted 01-23-2004 11:16 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

It all really centers around a bible passage that the producers had promised to edit but have since placed back in the movie much to the horror of Jewish Rights groups. It was this passage that fueled anti-semitism and the groups fear it will again.

"His blood be on our heads and on the heads of our children" (Matt 27:25)
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7 posted 01-23-2004 11:23 PM       View Profile for Mistletoe Angel   Email Mistletoe Angel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Mistletoe Angel's Home Page   View IP for Mistletoe Angel

"It is as it was" so said the Pope.

Being Catholic, I am looking forward to seeing it and judging for myself, as I'm sure non-Catholics would also find this enthralling. Apparently it stays true to Him as I'm told by my church-going friends.

Love,
Noah Eaton


"You'll find something that's enough to keep you
But if the bright lights don't receive you
You should turn yourself around and come back home" MB20
Stephanos
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8 posted 01-23-2004 11:29 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

How groups have abused, or taken certain scriptural portions out of context, to justify their hatred should not be the cause of criticizing the scriptures themselves ... nor to any artistic expression which might include them.  Hatred and prejudice have always taken things "out of context".  If we pulled everything that was ever said, on account of those who misused the quotes, we would have little left.  


But if one really reads the NT (not looking to pick a fight) ... the charge of anti-semitism appears for what it is ... absurd.


Stephen.
Aenimal
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9 posted 01-23-2004 11:29 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

And speaking of Tolkien, yes an impossible task. The only way a Tolkien fan can watch them is by totally detaching from the original text and enjoying it for what it is. An artistic interpretation. I mean I was livid when Frodo revealed the ring to the Nazgul, furious at how Faramir was portrayed..but I've calmed since. grins
Poet4Christ
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10 posted 01-24-2004 09:52 AM       View Profile for Poet4Christ   Email Poet4Christ   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Poet4Christ's Home Page   View IP for Poet4Christ

I do agree about Tolkien, read those books a few times, and I definetly had to go see the films for just what they were - good (GREAT!) entertainment.  I think Tolkien himslef would have been pleased.  Anyway - thanks for all your responses.  February will be a great month for me - I can't wait (a little off the topic but - oh well) The Passion comes out - going to go see MercyMe in concert and two CDs that I have desperately been waiting for come out the 10th.. Norah Jones - and the new Jeremy Camp.. will be a good month indeed.  sorry for the tangent.. thanx

He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered. Proverbs 28:26

Opeth
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11 posted 01-25-2004 08:04 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

I thought the bible teaches its followers to not make any "graven images" of the lord God? A graven image most certainly means putting the face and appearance of the Lord God on a movie screen for the purpose of entertainment... oh, there must be another "out" to justify that one.


Denise
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12 posted 01-25-2004 11:03 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Not an "out" Opeth, a reality, and one that you either disbelieve or just fail to comprehend (I know that I personally have shared this with you on more than one occassion) : Christ fulfilled the Law.
Opeth
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13 posted 01-25-2004 11:47 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Denise, that is an out. For if christ fulfilled the laws then christiand do have a license to sin - but we been there before!
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14 posted 01-25-2004 12:04 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Nope, Opeth, no license to sin:

"Because the law worketh wrath: for where there is no law, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith that it might be by grace to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed not to that only that is of law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham who is the father of us all." (Romans 4:15-16)

Now there is some reality worth plugging into.  
Opeth
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15 posted 01-25-2004 12:26 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Interesting, Denise, but quite puzzling to me still...

Romans 6:12-13

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions. Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness..."

Then what does Paul say?

verse 15

"What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the law but under grace?"

And the big answer is?

"By no means!"

~ So, a christian is to refrain from sinning. What is sin? "The breaking of the laws of God." What do these laws include? The 10 Commandments. Christ summed them up this way... Love your god (1st 4 commandments) and loving one's neighbor (last 6).


One of the commandments is not make graven images of God - so on what grounds do christians watch movies with the image of god on screen or have pictures of a white-brown-haired-blue-eyed saviour hanging on their walls?

An out, indeed.

Denise
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16 posted 01-25-2004 01:05 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Opeth, that is your definition of sin, and an erroneous one, scripturally speaking, which tells us that the power of sin is the Law and that Christ fulfilled the Law so that we are not under it for the obtaining of righteousness, and therefore no longer under the power of sin. We are now free to live in Christ (the fulfillment of the Law) and not by a rule book of "right and wrong".

I've just seen a definite correlation here (I love it when that happens! ) regarding the Tree of Life (Christ) and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (the Law).

The beauty is is that when you are feasting from the Tree of Life, you won't be fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. When we become Law conscious again, we set ourselves up for a fall.
Opeth
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17 posted 01-25-2004 01:24 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"Opeth, that is your definition of sin, and an erroneous one, scripturally speaking..."

I beg to differ, Denise. I merely provided the biblical definition of sin. For, if the question, "What is sin?" is asked, the bible would be the source to answer the question. And the bible does indeed provide a direct answer - one that is crystal clear.

IJohn 3:4 (Straight from Strong's concordance of the bible)

"Sin transgresseth also the laws; for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the laws of God."

Please Denise, explain to me how that is my definition and not the definition inspired by the Holy Spirit of God?

Aenimal
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18 posted 01-25-2004 01:58 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Denise if Jesus fulfilled the law then why did God not, for example, raise up the dead of Israel under David the King? That was his plan as he Told Ezekiel and David yet it has not come to pass. To call Opeth's statement erroneous is to call Judaism erroneous as they still observe the Law and have yet to see all the words of god to Israel it fulfilled.
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19 posted 01-25-2004 02:22 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Opeth, it is not a scriptural definition in the sense that you are not reading the whole counsel of what the Bible is saying, you are taking one verse at the expense of all the other verses and are therefore drawing an erroneous conclusion. You seem to be stuck on Law, disregarding the clear scriptural evidence that Christ fulfilled it.

Raph, because it's not yet time for the resurrection. And I'm not calling Judaism erroneous. Have you never heard of progressive revelation? And everything that was ever promised will be fulfilled, I have absolutely no doubt about it.

Let's think outside the box a little bit here guys!

And I know that "Man does not live by bread alone", but if I don't go food shopping I won't have any bread (or milk, or eggs) before the snow storm hits!

Be back later.  
Opeth
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20 posted 01-25-2004 02:40 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

(Shakes head in disbelief over Denise's reply)

I guess when the bible states that sin is the transgression of the laws of god, I am not to believe it to be true because I am taking the meaning out of context.

I believe you are hung-up on the fact that god's spiritual laws do exist and that sin (bible's definition) is the breaking of the laws of god - but, hey, that is only my erroneous interpretation.   
Aenimal
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21 posted 01-25-2004 03:10 PM       View Profile for Aenimal   Email Aenimal   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Aenimal

Denise you stated that

"Christ fulfilled the Law so that we are not under it for the obtaining of righteousness"

Yet Jews do not believe the Law fulfilled, so in an offhand way you're claiming that they're going about righteousness the wrong way. The resurrection and kingdom under David of the Old Testament would essentially occur once the Laws/prophecies were fulfilled. Since they have been fulfilled in your opinion God's promises to the Jews should have been fulfilled. By your reasoning God is essentially saying to the Jews "Ok, we've got you covered but you're going to have to hold off until i can the rest of these guys in order."

As for thinking outside of the box..that's one of the most incredibly ironic statements I've read thusfar.
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22 posted 01-25-2004 06:39 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Opeth, nope, I'm not hung up, just rejoicing that Jesus did for us what we couldn't do for ourselves.

Raph, but not all of the prophecies have been fulfilled yet, and it's not me saying anything, I'm telling you what is revealed in the Scpritures. The Jews as a nation have been temporarily set aside (but not forsaken), a pause, if you will, during this age of the gathering in from among the Gentile nations. This is the mystery spoken of in the New Testament "hidden in ages past", something that had never been revealed to Israel, that Jesus alluded to when He said He had "other sheep, not of this fold" that he had to gather, which falls under the progressive revelation that I mentioned. Even though God of course sees the big picture, man received His revelation in progressive steps. When our time is finished, God will again resume where He left off with Israel, the clock will start ticking again, and all of the prophecies will then become fulfilled.
Ringo
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23 posted 01-25-2004 08:47 PM       View Profile for Ringo   Email Ringo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Ringo

Denise- I apologize in advance if I completely took your meaning out of context, yet, am I to presume that you are implying that the Jews will be the last of His peoples left on Earth???

____________________________________________

When our time is finished, God will again resume where He left off with Israel, the clock will start ticking again, and all of the prophecies will then become fulfilled.
____________________________________________

To me it sounds as if you believe that He will send those that follow His Son Home, and THEN work on fulfilling the prohesies of Judism, which- therefore- implies that the Jews will be left on Earth after He is done with the rest of us.

Cause in my dreams it's always there
The evil face that twists my mind
And brings me to despair.

Denise
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24 posted 01-25-2004 09:27 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Ringo, It's my understanding, from what I've studied of the issue, that it is only the Jews who will enter the earthly Kingdom in mortal bodies, to receive the fulfillment of the promises made to Israel. If we are there at all (I've read differing opinions on this), we will be there in our new immortal bodies (given to us by Christ when He comes in the clouds to take us out of the earth), in a ministering capacity, serving alongside Christ.
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