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Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


25 posted 03-14-2004 05:34 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

You can have country living, suburban living or city dwelling,  be at the seashore if that is what you choose..or go to the mountains and be alone...it's all a matter of choice and wants.

Where?  If you are born in the city you are caught in a much larger web.  You have to have money for the transportation because it the city is too many miles broad to walk without taking up an age of your life to get to where it ends.  You can't just take a leisurely walk anymore and find grove to sit in, or a stream to sit by, or a plain to enjoy quiet in.   The cities are so big, no one may walk out of them easily to find nature's habitat, a woodland, a lake, a meadow. If it is a hill or a lake Ocassionally it is too large for a city to remove therefore it has to gird it and live with it, but in most cases, the city gets the best of nature.  How many groves are in your city?  How many natural places, that aren't extremely isolated and very surrounded by buildings, streets, cars and humans?  How many times do you see a horse, or goat, or sheep, unless you watch TV and then how often do you see them outside the context of how our fellow earthlings are doing  at the meat market for humans, unless you have a speciality channel like natural geographic?
Doesn't it strike you at all strange that we have to be so distant from the more natural living we used to be so close to?  Do you really agree with the modern idea of progress of ruralness being at the bottom and urbanization at the top?
Look at how the internet is:  predominated by advertisment, business and money making, and pornography: these are the kinds of things that are coming into human minds today.  These same kind of people that predominate on the internet, are the people who run things in the real world as well. People may do whatever they wish basically on the interent; they have the freedom to make a community as ideal as they wish; and still the internet turns out to be more full of excess and vice than anything.  
How may we trust that the internet isn't like a token of what people are trying to do to the real world?   If these mentalities don't give a predominatly moral shape and manner to a "virtual" world, how may we trust they are trying to impart one to the real world?

[This message has been edited by Essorant (03-14-2004 06:26 PM).]

nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


26 posted 03-14-2004 07:08 PM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

I live in a small Pennsylvania town...moved here 28 years ago because I could afford it after the first oil shortage raised the prices of homes...and bought an older, cheaper fixer upper one that needed love and care instead of new. I did not take away from this community but renewed a part of its history.

And if I wanted to and had the youth and strength I could bike my way (as many do)  to every place but the ocean...I am surrounded by farmland, mts not too far away depending on what one might call a mt in this area, streams and rivers and nature on a 44 mile bike path, where I have ridden at least half of it and returned enjoying nature, animals, birds, trees, friendly relaxed faces.  
There are park benches (dedicated in memory of some who have died) to rest on...I guess it depends where you choose to live. And it is a choice. Just because you grew up in a city ( I did) doesn't mean you have to stay there. And it doesn't necesarily take alot of money.
You choose the style of living you want, the field you wish to work in and how you wish to live. There are people here who have lots of money and things and those who have only enough to live day to day but are very satisfied here.

It would be hard for me to move from here, if I had to someday.


Ess, I have no idea what it is like in Canada although someday I would like to visit..but many communities that are being built, at least in the east are designed to keep nature available...trees must be planted..there are lands that must be set aside for parks...even the inner cities are being remodeled/renewed (mostly for tourists) but who cares as long as they offer the view and comfort for those who also live there to take walks by the bay or harbors...we have more mass transit( some underground) that does keep the cars off the roads in the busiest areas.
I do agree that the highways are way too crowded
(too many not sharing rides) and even with speed limits raised, the traffic can be at a standstill..some of that is overcrowdedness but much is due to poor driving skills with people  darting from one lane to another causing traffic to stop and let them in to get off the highways, if not in the proper lanes.

Anyway... I am not always happy with what they call progress...but if not needing to build for the next generations then I guess we would all go back to having ourselves, our children and their children living in the same household...if there is nowhere for them to go.

p.s. porn and the internet and or cable tv/movies is another topic in itself...
M
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


27 posted 03-14-2004 07:34 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
If you are born in the city you are caught in a much larger web.

Nope. Whether you are born in the city or not, you face choices that need to be made. You don't like the choices you've made in the past? Stop blaming the situation and start making new choices. Oh, but there might be a personal cost or sacrifice required? Yep. There always is.


Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


28 posted 03-14-2004 11:39 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Thank you.  I know what you both say is true.  


Severn
Member Rara Avis
since 07-17-99
Posts 8273


29 posted 03-15-2004 01:35 AM       View Profile for Severn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Severn

'How many groves are in your city?  How many natural places, that aren't extremely isolated and very surrounded by buildings, streets, cars and humans?'

Many actually. Many. I live in the area classified as the 'central city.' In 30 seconds I can walk into a nice little park. In 30 minutes I can reach a large park that, once you are in the middle of it, you can't hear any traffic. In 20 minutes by bus - 40-60 minutes (depending on pace) I can reach a very large park that is peaceful, secluded and is 15 minutes walk from the cbd. Same distance, I can reach the park that was just across the road from my university. In 30 minutes by car I can reach over 30 beaches on two coasts and\or secluded bush walks that take you far away from humans.

The plethora of beaches means that they are not, as a general rule, over-populated (though the most popular are in the middle of summer). One beach requires a 30 minute hike so when I was there - it was deserted.

It does exist Ess.

However, I like living in a city. I like the convenience. I chose to come here from the country. I like going to sleep to the sound of traffic. I like waking up early sometimes to the peaceful sound of birds.

Not all cities are horror-stories of concrete and grime.

Auckland has it share of that, but I think it's pretty balanced as far as a city goes.

As for fantasy...ever read Steven Erikson? Hah..that'd dispel your notions... grin..

K
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


30 posted 03-15-2004 02:26 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Severn
That sounds like a city unlike most out there.  And yet I still have a feeling that those more natural spaces you mention are probably quite isolated and not part of an obvious naturalness that continues throughout the whole city and is preserved to balance the overall structuralism that keeps growing.  Even though I sense from your words that there is still more naturalness there overall than many.  
The direction overal is still to make the city thicken in almost all cases, and to thinify the natural aspects as small as possible, to provide more room for ever larger populations and more technological traffic.  But unfortunatly the real, natural world, is not going to get larger for these larger populations and greater traffic!
The Romans made the basic "blueprint"  where houses are very compactly together fixed on lines and very closely girt by streets; and every step they tried to take with yet some moderation and failed somewhat in, all the following world would take with even less moderation in mind and further lack moderation in performing again, and thus all the cities went to excess because the plan was based on over-expansion from the very start.  If the housing arrangements have to be so pressed together, and so close to the streets, obviously, things are fasshioned with a mind to keep room for much more density and accumulation, and we fill that motion-room with as much density and accumulation of urbanization as the great ambition that must have filled the initial plan. There is nothing wrong with modern business and technology, in and of them as things people wish to live with and enhance their living with but it is wrong in how people put those into so much excessive densnesses and haste and pressure,  over all things, and intrude upon the natural world so violently, and then treat lesser evil, like less pollution as "good"  Yes less pollution is good in a sense, but pollution in any case is not good for anything, and the more little bits of it there, even though it is "less," the more it adds up again.  No one  may justify discarding the horse from human society.  Horses through throughout history were companions to Human, in his travels, and plans; every one knows that cars are more "powerful" and faster than horses.  But no one may deny that cars have put all the world in more danger, than horses did or may.  And cars don't have any living instincts, and are not beings, contrary to how some people seem to fancy them.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


31 posted 03-15-2004 06:15 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

From the Formation of England (H.Finberg):


"The civilization of the Roman Empire had been [was] an urban one.  The life of the early middle ages was primarily rural.  This transition is implicitly a tale of decline, for urban life is more complicated, more structured than rural life, and an urbanized society invariably is one that has transcended [transcends]its high degree of direct dependence upon agricultural and pastoral activity."


This is more in context with england of course; but I think the continued and modern idea of "progress" seems to fall in basically the same mentality.  
More Rationalization and Urbanization for ages were treated like the footprints of Civilization and our minds are not very different today; we continue to build a part of the "Empire" the Romans had, and pretend that we are on some superior level based a a lot on distance away from the more rural and natural life.

 
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