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Savant Brains
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Savant Brains |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash 
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I saw an interesting documentary on the Discovery Channel the other day regarding savants and how their brains operate. Here is some background: quote: ... And the link: http://health.discovery.com/premiers/fragments/fragments.html My firsthand experience with many autistics leads me to believe that unlocking these abilities in so-called neurotypicals would not be all it's cracked up to be. It seems to me that the disability and savant abilities are interconnected ... you can't have one without the other. I'm interested in your thoughts. Jim [This message has been edited by jbouder (01-16-2003 08:08 AM).] |
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Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-08-22
Posts 22648 |
I would agree with you, Jim. I think a very simple, albeit poor, comparison might be the increased capacity of the other senses that a blind person experiences, that wouldn't be so well honed otherwise. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Denise: The brain seems to have built-in filters that prevent our senses from being overwhelmed by stimuli. Imagine, for example, not being able to shut out the rush of sensory information bombarding you when walking down a busy city street. The experience - sounds, lights, smells, etc. - would be overwhelming. It is worth noting, I think, that many autistics with sensory integrative disfunction seem to withdraw within themselves and/or engage in self-injurious behavior. I can see the advantages of being able to "disengage" the filter while in a quiet room with a book, then "reengage" it to reflect on the material you've absorbed, but that also assumes that the savant-like abilities are not adaptations the brain undergoes during development to compensate for the rapid absorbtion of raw sensory data. In my opinion, there is much research to do before we start fumbling around with the gray matter. Jim |
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Phaedrus Member
since 2002-01-26
Posts 180 |
Jim I read this post last night and have been thinking about it ever since, I remember watching a BBC programme several years ago that featured a young lad who had the ability to draw extremely accurate pencil drawings of architectural scenes after only one quick glance at the subject. I have little knowledge of autism, only bits and pieces that I’ve picked up or read while studying other topics, one thing that has always struck me about savants and autism in general is that people always approach the subject as if there is a defect or malfunction involved. There is an alternative possibility - that autism and the incidence of savant skills are a consequence of perfection. It’s generally accepted that human thinking revolves around patterns and our ability to recognise them, everything we do, say or learn is directly linked to pattern recognition. I know my son by the pattern of his face I understand his words due to the association of patterns of tonal change and inflection with meaning. Autism seems to be an inability to recognise these patterns, at least to my untrained eye, but could the condition not stem from an overabundance of pattern recognition? Faced with too much information is it not possible that the subject may simply be unable to cope with the available data? The existence of Savants lends credence to this assumption, if savants are able to deal with certain pattern recognition, architectural shapes for instance, and their condition or ability to recognise patterns of that type is highly developed. To a point where they are near perfect , wouldn’t that offer a possible explanation of why savant abilities are so acute while other pattern related functions are suppressed? All this is pure assumption of course and the wanderings of my own feeble mind, though there are some aspects of Autism that point towards pattern recognition as an important part of this condition. As I understand it people with autism display repetitive behaviour, swaying, hand flapping etc. I also understand that in some cases repetitive or patterned behaviour is an integral requirement of their day to day lives, eating the same foods on certain days and at set times for instance. Could this attempt to create patterns stem from the inability to process the myriad patterns overloading their thought process? Could they be too good at recognising patterns? |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Phaedrus, I don't know about that. It sounds mysteriously like a teleology but it seems clear that autism is a condition that is not well suited for dealing with the semantic or physical worlds. I don't see you can go that route without following into metaphysical dualism. Of course, the only person around here that wants to avoid that route is me so maybe it's not such a big deal.  |
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Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-05-19
Posts 8669Michigan, US |
I don't really have anything to add (was that the sound of applause in the background?), but wanted to thank Jim for the link, and especially for the more in-depth links that led from that page. Some fascinating reading. Brad, if you haven't already followed the second link (A Theory About Genius), I think you'll be interested in some of the observations on the use of language. Or, rather, the lack of language. For example, "In fact, he (Einstein) believed that words and numbers, as they are written or spoken, did not play a significant role in his thinking process." There seems to be an implication that language, rather than contributing to complex thoughts, limits them. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Phaedrus: I think you are on the right track. Many people can see little more than the outward "negative" manifestations of the disorder. I wouldn't go so far as to say that autism is a consequence of perfection, but I would venture to say that many people with autism have remarkable talents and can do, naturally, what many of us may never be able to achieve even with years of practice. I think the key is that nearly every person with autism has the potential to, at the very least, live self-sufficiently and independently. I see no reason to limit the high end of their capabilities any more than I would limit yours or mine. At any rate, I think the general populace needs to be aware that a meanful investment in their education now will very likely yield a more meaningful return on that investment. I'm afraid I do not have answers to your other questions (regarding, for example, whether the challenges associated with their disability are linked to their inability to filter out the influx of raw information). In a few years, I expect my son will be able to tell me what he is thinking and experiencing. Brad & Ron: Thanks for replying. Ron, you're welcome. Jim [This message has been edited by jbouder (01-17-2003 03:47 PM).] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Jim and Ron, Are you trying to piss me off? I read that article, it says no such thing. Brad PS In a fight with my wife right now so probably guilty of projection/transference at the moment. |
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Phaedrus Member
since 2002-01-26
Posts 180 |
I read the genius article and also found this. quote: The above is taken from an article I stumbled on while researching a little background on the thinking process, it’s one of those bits and pieces I was talking about earlier. If you hit the “return” button at the bottom of the article there’s a whole page full of interesting links concerning the thinking process itself and its relationship with autism. http://www.autism.org/temple/genius.html |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Brad: You're an easy target ... what more can I say?  Phaedrus: I'm familiar with Temple Grandin. She is a fascinating human being. But I think what she meant to say is that she does not require "words" for consciousness or thinking. Pictures can certainly function as language. In fact, they serve as an important augmentative communication function for my son. See the following link: http://www.pecs.com/page5.html Gang: If you want to get into the head of people with autism, Grandin's an excellent person to start with. Jim |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Ron: Here is another link for you since I know you get bored with the general. Jim http://www.envmed.rochester.edu/wwwvgl/jaba_articles/2002/charlop-35-213.pdf |
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