How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 Philosophy 101
 Religion in Schools   [ Page: 1  2  ]
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Religion in Schools

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


0 posted 12-02-2002 09:25 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Yep, yep, yep, put it in there. Put the ten commandments on the wall. It might help teach critical thinking. Of course, this'll just piss off Christians more for teachers would have to teach it as a subject, not as a dogma.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


1 posted 12-02-2002 10:10 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I think religion is a good idea in school as long as the studies are given to a good taste of all religions , not just Christianity.  

[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-02-2002 10:14 PM).]

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


2 posted 12-02-2002 10:21 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

While I believe strongly in the separation between church and state, I guess I'd have to say I believe even more strongly in the separation between "subject" and dogma. Trouble is, I've seen very little indication that's even possible. Sat in on a ninth grade civics class lately? English or Literature? I can't think of a single subject taught in K-12 that isn't peppered liberally with its share of dogma.

I've always maintained that a college education is an absolute necessity, even if all a person ever wants to do is dig ditches the rest of their life. Sadly, it may be the only chance a person will ever get to actually think for themselves. It will almost certainly be the first time.

The point, Brad, is that if Christianity were taught in the public school system, it would be no different. What you really mean to say is that many would be upset because it was someone else's dogma being taught as the "subject."
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


3 posted 12-02-2002 10:54 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Yeah.  My point is it won't satisfy anybody. I could be wrong of course, let's find out.
Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


4 posted 12-02-2002 11:12 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

You're right, nobody would be satisfied. I don't think religion should be taught in public school, as a subject or as dogma (they can't really be separated, I agree). Religion can be studied at home and at a person's own preferred place of worship, or if a parent can afford or wishes, they can send their children to the private school of their choice.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


5 posted 12-02-2002 11:48 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant



Wouldn't it be beneficial for young people to discuss and ask religious questions freely in a public setting, instead of in a seclusion or cloister as if religion is meant to be kept private and secret?  I feel like people learn better in being exposed to each others developing and diverse opinions where they are able debate just as they may be disposed to in respectful and critical ways.  
If the schoolboards instituted a set outline that could be sanctioned, and then conveyed by teachers of good reputation who would follow the rules well and follow through with studies that introduce students to some of the most important aspects of the major religions, I think it could work very well in a public high schools.  
I also think they should add a Philosophy course!


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


6 posted 12-02-2002 11:52 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

But isn't it wrong to deny kids exposure to the Western tradition?
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


7 posted 12-03-2002 12:22 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Do you mean putting religion away until Sunday?

I think they would still attend church with family for their own faith, but would have a more critical attention, and might even raise a few objections of their own, while their parents will be sleeping with their eyes open.
  

[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-03-2002 12:29 AM).]

Larry C
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Patricius
since 09-10-2001
Posts 10765
United States


8 posted 12-03-2002 12:36 AM       View Profile for Larry C   Email Larry C   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Larry C's Home Page   View IP for Larry C

Any parents in here. It is indeed your responsibility to raise your own child based on principles. If that's Christian principles or not it is your child. Not the states and not the teachers.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


9 posted 12-03-2002 01:16 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Many parents, perhaps most in this day of age, simply do not have the time or are not even religiously inclined.    And do you blame them with the way the work force is today?  It is difficult with all the influences today to teach a child the most basic morals and respects, let alone teach the discourses of a religion thats been around for ages.  Even moreso when people have less time and deserve to spend that in more enjoyable and personally worthwhile activitiies.
I just  think what the school could offer would still be better than nothing or too little.  It would be a basis for an understanding.

Essorant

[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-03-2002 01:20 AM).]

furlong
Member
since 04-08-2001
Posts 128


10 posted 12-03-2002 05:32 AM       View Profile for furlong   Email furlong   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for furlong

"But isn't it wrong to deny kids exposure to the Western tradition?"

Brad, you sound like Bloom and just as provocative!!
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


11 posted 12-03-2002 05:36 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Hey, I read that book.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


12 posted 12-03-2002 09:41 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Many parents, perhaps most in this day of age, simply do not have the time or are not even religiously inclined. And do you blame them with the way the work force is today?

You bet I do!
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


13 posted 12-03-2002 10:10 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I agree with Essorant.

We did a Bible unit in my senior year, and I found it fairly objective and very informative. I think that discussion of religion is very healthy in public school settings, as long as the Christian majority isn't allowed to berate people who hold different beliefs, and vice-versa. Debate and abuse are two different things, but I think open discussion and debate can help elimiate the latter, as students will be introduced to different beliefs at a younger age.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


14 posted 12-03-2002 11:48 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Ron,

How do you blame people who after work have only perhaps 6 hours left for spending time with their children whom have been at school themselves most of the day, for wishing to spend that to time for letting their children be children, yes I do mean pleaseing, letting them do what they want for the most part, some people will call it "spoiling" enjoying the time utmost.  Take them out for dinner, to a movie, to sports event etc. I'm not saying no teaching should go on, but who wants to conduct lessons and devote  this time to studying or counselling when life is short and school and work already take up so much time???  

[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-03-2002 11:50 AM).]

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


15 posted 12-03-2002 12:12 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Essorant, spending time with the children isn't what your earlier post suggested to me. Taking the kids to a meal or movie or sporting event IS teaching them your values. The differences between right and wrong are never taught by conducting "lessons," but only through example.
Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


16 posted 12-03-2002 01:52 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Putting "religion" in schools will not make up for a lack of parenting.
jbouder
Member Elite
since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


17 posted 12-03-2002 01:59 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

I don't see the harm in it.  But it should not supplant the responsibility of parents to be the child's primary source for religious instruction.

I, personally, think it is impossible to avoid religion when examining the history of Western culture.  Or even the Colonial justification for the American Revolution.

Jim

[This message has been edited by jbouder (12-03-2002 02:00 PM).]

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


18 posted 12-03-2002 02:03 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I hope that those kind of parents are still the many and what most are.  But there is a group of working peoples now a days who think that daycares and the institutions should do all the rearing and teaching.  These people are viciously career oriented and hedonistic, they have intercourse and children but avoide the responsibilities due to these with having "no time" as an excuse as if to justify it.


[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-03-2002 04:40 PM).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


19 posted 12-03-2002 07:14 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I find it interesting that no one really understood what I meant (Okay, it's no one's fault but my own, but Jim seems to get it.) Parenting, to me, was not the question, history is.

Right or wrong, good or bad, Christianity is a part of us (atheists included). Understanding where we come from is important.  

It helps us deal with other people who didn't come from there.
Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


20 posted 12-03-2002 07:40 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

"The differences between right and wrong are never taught by conducting 'lessons', but only through example. "

Ron,

I agree with you here... except for the word "only".  I believe that "lessons" are important, but also that living those lessons is most important of all.


Stephen.
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


21 posted 12-03-2002 08:27 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Nicely said.

Have you ever read "Le Morte de'Arthur" Knights are always saying "by the faith of my own body"  
I've always liked that saying because it seems to say that faith must come out through actions, it should be in your behavior as well as your heart.  If you have a faith you should not just hold it but be it--live it, indeed.
    

[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-03-2002 08:28 PM).]

Denise
Moderator
Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


22 posted 12-03-2002 10:58 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

As a part of history, perhaps a cursory overview of the world's various religions, and how they each have impacted history would be valuable, if it could be done in such a way as not to endorse one over another in the classroom setting.

But then, of course, the question comes to mind, who decides which version of history? Each country, culture and religion seems to have their own version. How does one actually arrive at a completely objective historical interpretation? Is that even possible?

As an aside, History is not even taught anymore in Philadelphia in the public schools. It was replaced about 25 years ago with Social Studies.  I remember taking my girls, when they were in grade school, to a large suburban mall nearby where a huge relief of Washington Crossing the Delaware was on display. They had no idea who he was or why he was in the boat crossing the Delaware River. I had mistakenly assumed that they were learning history in Social Studies. As they never had books to bring home (supposedly because the Philadelphia School District couldn't afford to buy books for each child and they just shared what books they did have in class), I really had no way of knowing what they were being taught or not being taught). So, whatever history they do know, I taught them. To this day the subject of history is still not being taught in Philadelphia public schools. I wonder if this is the rule or the exception across the United States.

Another thought comes to mind, how does one monitor the lessons to insure that particular teachers are not setting forth their own particular beliefs as dogma? What types of safe-guards would be set in place to insure that one religion is not proffered above another in a public school classroom setting? How would this impact the separation of Church and State issue?
Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


23 posted 12-03-2002 11:57 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"Another thought comes to mind, how does one monitor the lessons to insure that particular teachers are not setting forth their own particular beliefs as dogma?"

The only answer to this would be to employ security guards to watch over the teachings in each classroom.  If they start to get lopsided, these guards will contact the supreme authorities and have which ever teacher is involved banished from the premises and sentenced to due punishment by the law and eternal shame in the public eye.  

[This message has been edited by Essorant (12-03-2002 11:58 PM).]

Essorant
Member Elite
since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


24 posted 12-04-2002 12:09 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Just kidding
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> Philosophy 101 >> Religion in Schools   [ Page: 1  2  ] Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors