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The Christian Afterlife

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Opeth
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25 posted 11-28-2002 04:25 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Stephan,

But it is relevant. It is one of the differences between the true Christ's church and the "another Christ" church.
furlong
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26 posted 11-28-2002 04:54 PM       View Profile for furlong   Email furlong   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for furlong

"the concept of a God who is all-Spirit and all-Good but who ““allows”” evil materialism"

Ok, that was perhaps loosely phrased and you read too much into it.  I said “evil materialism” meaning “evil” (I am not suggesting that material or matter is bound to be evil, perhaps irrelevant, but not “evil”).  But in any event this is apart from the point I was making which was simply that the idea of a perfect immortal God of Love having any part of or knowledge of evil is patently fallacious.  

My understanding of tradition is that God (Spirit) is Love, is Good and Perfect - that He harbours not one shred of evil.  Is this not your belief?  If God = Spirit then Spirit = Good (as opposed to evil).  Is this a problem for you?

“Why the presumption that Spirit and Matter are incompatible? or that one is evil, and one is good. I see no convincing metaphysical or theological argument that matter is contrary to God's goodness. If God is the Creator, he can certainly create what he desires. In Genesis, when God created everything in the physical universe, it is related that he "saw that it was good".”

Stephen, it is wholly impossible for me to conceive of an immortal spiritual infinite presence having any “knowledge” of matter let alone “creating” it.  If you try to ascribe “personal” or even human characteristics to “God” and then apply Genesis literally I can only assume that you are suffering from what seems to me to be a fairly common malady afflicting enthusiastic mainstream religion readers viz “logic-shutdown”. (I apologise if that came off rude I don’t mean to be )

To put it clumsily, the proposition of an infinite spiritual “being” involving himself in matters of matter is not possible; whereas the proposition that the “creations” or reflections of a spiritual “being” are themselves in reality entirely spiritual in nature (however determinedly they hang on to physical “reality”) seems to me to be entirely logical.  It might be hard to swallow in terms of what we “see”, it might even be “against” the weight of a literal interpretation of the Bible, but it seems to me much more plausible than any attempt to merge the Spirit and matter with an artificial dogmatic doctrinal glue.

As for pressing me for the arguments in favour of one extreme or the other.  Even if I had the time and ability to field them (which I don’t), I don’t have the inclination to argue for one or the other as as I said before I am entirely undecided myself.  All I do know, and the only point I have been trying to make, is the illogicality of what you call the Judeo-Christian tradition and by implication the more attractive claims of the other two positions.
furlong
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27 posted 11-28-2002 04:56 PM       View Profile for furlong   Email furlong   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for furlong

"... namely that we do not have a physical nature?!  Show me someone who really thinks so and lives like they believe it."

Jesus
Stephanos
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28 posted 11-28-2002 06:05 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Jesus definitely taught that the body should not be our first concern, and that our spiritual nature is preeminent.  But that is a far cry from teaching that we don't have a physical nature also.  


Consider the following scriptures:
(all of these are the words of Jesus)


"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.  Rather be afraid of the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell" Matthew 10:28


"Watch and pray so that you will not fall into tempation.  The spirit is willing, but the body is weak." Matthew 26:41


(after his resurrection...)

"They were startled and frightened, theinking they saw a ghost.  He said to them, 'Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?  Look at my hands and my feet.  It is I myself!  a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have" Luke 24:37-39

And these are just the scriptures where Jesus himself spoke.  But the full scriptural support for the teaching of a unity of body and spirit can be taught from Genesis to Revelation.  Especially emphatic are the Apostles of Jesus, especially Paul, regarding this truth.


Stephen.

[This message has been edited by Stephanos (11-28-2002 06:35 PM).]

Essorant
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29 posted 11-28-2002 07:42 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Meseems most often think of the soul as being inside the bone-vessel, the content of the "soulcase,"  and the body as the outform, being outside the soul, but this is not the case, the body is inside, it is the soul's soul, and thus the soul is the body's body.   The Soul is not the inhabitant, it is the house.

However I believe that body and soul are still both part of the elements of the same realm, they most seem to me just different, or opposite states, of each other .  
One is faint,  heavenly, ghostly, and the other is distinct and solid, worldly, but they are both natural and divine, in my sciences.




[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-28-2002 09:32 PM).]

furlong
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30 posted 11-29-2002 04:53 AM       View Profile for furlong   Email furlong   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for furlong

Stephen (and Essorant)

As ever nothing will be achieved by using lines of the bible like cannonballs in a situation where the blue water between the flagships is immense.  I might equally load up my guns and lob a few back at you, but as I have no burning desire (or time) to defend the "spiritual approach" maybe I could direct both you and Essorant to a lady who has :
http://www.spirituality.com/

Ron
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31 posted 11-29-2002 07:25 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
Surely the starting point for any "un-muddled" discussion of these ideas is the recognition that infinite Spirit cannot possibly reside in or, as you say be "married" to finite matter - the two are absolute opposites.

We used to believe that matter and energy were opposites, too. Einstein helped us realize otherwise.

quote:
Stephen, it is wholly impossible for me to conceive of an immortal spiritual infinite presence having any "knowledge" of matter let alone "creating" it.

The inability of one person to conceive of something doesn't mean that particular something doesn't exist. That statement, and all of those that follow it, tell us a lot more about you than about the concepts being discussed. "Is not possible" and "seems to me to be entirely logical" and "seems to me to be much more plausible" are meaningless until you tell us WHY you believe them.

Your link, unfortunately, wasn't a great deal more helpful. I looked around a bit, but could find no definitive word on the basis of Mary Baker Eddy's philosophy (or, at least, the interpretation of it you've given us). Most of what I saw was either anecdotal or crass commercialization. Maybe you could provide a link to a specific reference on the site?

Any person interested in modern science quickly accepts the reality that what we see isn't always the end of the story. I'm perfectly willing, in spite of my senses and common sense, to explore the possibility that matter doesn't matter. But it's going to take a bit more than "because I said so" to get me there.
Opeth
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32 posted 11-29-2002 09:50 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

"And God breathed into man the breath of life and man became a living soul."

~ Therefore, according to this verse in the Bible, mankind does not possess a soul, but is a soul.

The original Hebrew word translated as soul into English is nephesh. This same word, nephesh, is used to describe dead animals in Genesis and Leviticus.

~ Soul, is something we, including animals are, living or dead. That Jesus points out the difference in soul and body is mainly to distinguish the first death and the final or second death with regards to a life taken.

Spirit, is a term that is separate from soul. And according to the Bible, it is something that man possesses. It could be considered to be a floppy drive containing every piece of information about an individual, however without the soul (the being him or herself), it is not conscious after death.

It always amused me how some Bibles translated the word "soul" in that verse to "being." Why?

[This message has been edited by Opeth (11-29-2002 09:51 AM).]

Essorant
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33 posted 11-29-2002 11:52 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

The soul is like a sky in a sky around the body that is like a world on a world, its subject in its portion and assembly of elements to compounds seems as infinite as the soul even though there is always more soul at once to the body, than body to the soul.  If the heavens have an end,  bodies probably do too in thier potentiality.  But in importance the soul and body seem to be equals, mutually meant to uphold a force that keeps the being "informed."  In order for either to be substantial they both must, so the being can be.  The body needs meat, and the soul needs spirit, and the being needs both in order to be convey itself.  Thus it all seems to boil down to say that a well proportioned appetite and diet are both most needed for a healthy being          

[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-29-2002 02:14 PM).]

furlong
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34 posted 11-29-2002 06:00 PM       View Profile for furlong   Email furlong   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for furlong

""Is not possible" and "seems to me to be entirely logical" and "seems to me to be much more plausible" are meaningless until you tell us WHY you believe them."

Sorry I thought I had Stephen.  Simply because if for want of a better phrase "a presence" exists (which I don't believe it necessarily does) "who's" characteristics comprise an infinite immortal divine immaterial etc etc being then I can't see how a logical approach can suggest that such a "being" could "know" about matter.

To me that seems like a basic and obvious starting point.  Perhaps in your view it amounts to little more than a belief.  So be it.  I don't see any necessity for theological support for such a position but if you need it or are interested I'll try and find you a more precise link to Mrs Eddy's writings.  She was rather hot on theology and usually I have to admit incomprehensible to me.   
Stephanos
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35 posted 11-29-2002 08:04 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

furlong,

"As ever nothing will be achieved by using lines of the bible like cannonballs in a situation where the blue water between the flagships is immense"


And I don't usually use scripture alone in discussing issues like this.  Remember I was responding to your assertion that Jesus taught that we do not have physical natures.  The scriptures I placed were not any proofs of what I believe.  There were just statements from Jesus to show that he held no "either / or" view of Spirit and Body.  This mentality was the same error of the Gnostics.  You can believe such a teaching to be true, but one thing for certain, it cannot accurately be attributed to Jesus Christ.


Stephen.

[This message has been edited by Stephanos (11-29-2002 08:06 PM).]

Essorant
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36 posted 11-30-2002 01:31 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

"infinite immortal divine immaterial...being"

Furlong

Why should any Creator have to live up to such high human standards and expectations?
God's presence may be very physically bestowed into our sights in many shapes and personalites we encounter in our daily lives but we cannot see it beyond our thoughts that disable us to accept anything less than the idealization in our minds as God.  Such an absolute is confined most likely to be an abstraction  forever, a phantom, it is in one's own head of fancies alone.
I would believe that you were God before I'd believe in such an absolute.


[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-30-2002 01:40 AM).]

furlong
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37 posted 11-30-2002 06:22 AM       View Profile for furlong   Email furlong   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for furlong

“Remember I was responding to your assertion that Jesus taught that we do not have physical natures.”

Sorry Stephen, I thought you were making a wider point as well.  My mistake.

“You can believe such a teaching to be true, but one thing for certain, it cannot accurately be attributed to Jesus Christ.”

I can’t argue that one way or the other, but I do know that Mrs Eddy, who in her day was capable I believe of holding her own against any of the leading traditional theologians, would vehemently disagree with you.  I still haven’t found a suitable link though.

“Why should any Creator have to live up to such high human standards and expectations”

Essorant, all I was doing was stating what I believe is the Christian concept of the creator.  
Stephanos
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38 posted 11-30-2002 10:29 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Furlong,

Overall, I am trying to make a larger point... that the metaphysical proposition of a unity of body and spirit is more cogent than taking either side by itself.  But my use of scirpture is to show that this is what the Judeo-Christian tradition holds, and supported by what Jesus taught.  I know there are many people who would disagree and even call themselves "theologians".  But much of what I have seen along this vein, involves  taking scripture out of context and forcing it into a philosophical system of some kind.  My suggestion for all is to get a New Testament in modern english (King James can be irksome to read).  And read the gospels first, and then the epistles.  There is only so much in the Bible that can be convincingly wrested out of it's context.  I think many people who are confused and feel like the Bible presents an impossible tangle of ideas, have probably never read it.  Going on what others say (including myself) about the Bible is not enough to form an accurate opinion about what the Bible says.  Sure I would like to discuss what Mary Baker Eddy says about the bible.  But if we are going to discuss some of these issues, I want to hear you discuss it as well.  Otherwise you can have no true conception of her interpretation, whether it is accurate or not in relating the essence of what was intended by the original teacher(s).  I could take the writings of any ancient philosopher piecemeal and probably construct something not even close to what was meant... and be convincing to those who never read the texts.


"I can’t argue that one way or the other, but I do know that Mrs Eddy, who in her day was capable I believe of holding her own against any of the leading traditional theologians, would vehemently disagree with you."


Why do you believe that Mrs Eddy was "capable of holding her own" against traditional theologians, seeing you are not very familiar with the text they are arguing from?  "holding your own", must mean more than being a ferocious debater, polemicist, or politician.  In my eyes it must be the ability to present a cogent defense based on the texts.  Maybe she did, Maybe she didn't.  I need to read her stuff to know.  You would need to read the Bible to know.


Stephen.  

[This message has been edited by Stephanos (11-30-2002 10:38 AM).]

Opeth
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39 posted 11-30-2002 10:47 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Originally, the Christian afterlife was based on the belief of a ressurection.  Somehow this belief was changed during the past so many thousands of years to where now mainstream christianity teaches this...

1. A person dies.
2. Their soul lives.
3. This soul goes to a place: heaven or hell

This belief is not biblical, in fact, its roots are based in paganism.  For if the above outline is true, why would we, logically,  need a ressurection?

Mainstream christianity wants us to believe that after the soul goes to either heaven or hell immediately upon death, that later there these same souls will go back into the body for the ressurection...huh? Why? This is so illogical and stupid.1. Let's see...

1. A person dies.
2. Their soul lives.
3. This soul goes to a place: heaven or hell
4. Later, during the second coming these souls go back into their bodies.
5. There is judgment to take place where the people either go to back to heaven or hell.

Why judge them then, if they are already there? Too funny.

Okay, I die and get thrown into hell, where I suffer, then they are going to take me out of hell and let me line up for a judgment...Great! I get a break from the burning and the pain...I hope I am last in line, the longer the better. Finally, I get judged. I say to the judge, why even judge me when I have already been sentenced?
Tim
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40 posted 11-30-2002 10:51 AM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

*

[This message has been edited by Tim (11-30-2002 10:52 AM).]

Essorant
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41 posted 11-30-2002 11:26 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Opeth,

Your point?  There are seeming ridiculous things in every religion to peoples, things that seem too strange to be believed in.  
This does not however mean by any means that they might not be closer to the truth.


[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-30-2002 11:47 AM).]

Opeth
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42 posted 11-30-2002 11:43 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

My point is the nonsense of it all. Could a Creator who created us in His image, who created the entier universe, be that nonsensical? Absolutely not.

With regards to the subject of this thread, it would appear to be rather ludicrous for the "soul migration" to take place to begin with, therefore the belief in a "soul sleep" is quite a logical alternative.

[This message has been edited by Opeth (11-30-2002 11:51 AM).]

Essorant
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43 posted 11-30-2002 11:43 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

One the of the Egyptians beliefs was that the Creator masturbated and ejaculated and all the Universe sprung thus.  That sounds a bit ridiculous to me but that does not mean it is too strange to have happened.

"Could a Creator who created us in His image, who created the entier universe, be that nonsensical? Absolutely not."

If there is such a Creator, do you expect to see all his logic, and absolutly ?  

I would prefer to be able to remember everything through all of life, since life seems short.  It seems nonsensical that we can't, but I give benefit of the doubt there is something that must of force make it neccessary for us to forget, some logic behind it all, or we would not have to forget things during life, and I would not be more forgetful than most.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-30-2002 12:43 PM).]

Stephanos
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44 posted 11-30-2002 11:44 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Opeth,

In your theological view, has the ressurection already occurred or is it a future event?
Stephen.
Opeth
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45 posted 11-30-2002 12:13 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

According to the Bible,

The only person who has ever been ressurected from the dead is Christ.

Eventually, there will be 3 ressurections.

1. The first ressurection will occur when Jesus returns to establish His Kingdom on earth. Those whom have been called during this lifetime will then be born again into a spiritual body, including the called ones who are still alive.

2. The second ressurection will take place during the 1000 year ruling of Christ and his saints. All those whom have lived and were never called, or ever heard of Christ's name will be ressurected from the dead back into their flesh and blood bodies (see Ezekial and the Valley of the Bones), where they will no longer be taught by man, but by God and the saints. During this period, most will accept Christ as their saviour and will be born again too.

3. The third ressurection is for those who are incorrigbly wicked (a flesh and blood ressurection), including those that refused Christ during the second ressurection (they will join here), where their fate is the Lake of Fire, but not be tortured forever, no...Because this God is merciful and just. They will be burned up and no longer exist. There chance for eternal life is forever gone. An eternal and everlasting punishMENT for sure.

Paul called that the second death. Christ said to fear not who can only destroy the body (first death), but He who can destroy both the body and soul in gehenna. Christ uses gehenna, in the valley of Hinnom, as an example of what the Lake of Fire is to be like, but this won't happen until the 3rd ressurection takes place. Gehenna was a place where a fire continuously burned with garbage and dead bodies.

Death in Greek = thanatos. Strong's concordance of the Bible states that the earliest meaning of the term thanatos is extermination or non-existence, not an "eternal separation from God" that mainstream christianity likes to use to scare the sh#t out of people, thereby expanding their business and pocketbooks...Yes, these merchants of false christianity have desecrated the Temple of Christ.

My Temple should be a house of prayer, but you have made it a den of thieves...GET OUT! Thus, sayeth the Lord.


[This message has been edited by Opeth (11-30-2002 12:30 PM).]

Essorant
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46 posted 11-30-2002 01:08 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

What do you think should be ammended herein?  

I would be prepared to change anything of my own beliefs for a respectful and enlightning revelation.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-30-2002 01:15 PM).]

Opeth
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47 posted 11-30-2002 01:33 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Essorant,

Are you speaking to me? And if so, please clarify what you mean by what is to be ammended.

[This message has been edited by Opeth (11-30-2002 01:34 PM).]

Stephanos
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48 posted 11-30-2002 02:08 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Opeth,

Several points of contention I have with what you are saying... Please help me clarify these that I may also find the truth.


1)  You are maintaining death as a "soul sleep" until the future resurrections you described, right?  And Yet, Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus and two disciples on the "mount of transfiguration" (Matthew 17:1-3).  They talked and had discourse with Jesus and his disciples.  How would you reconcile your view of "soul sleep" with this instance?  Remember Moses and Elijah at this point had most certainly deceased physically.  The bible even accounts for Moses' death.


2)  Whether one believes in "soul sleep", or a post-death awareness prior to the resurrection of the body, makes what difference?  If a person has "Faith in Christ" as the Bible teaches, he will be right with God either way.  Or if a person persists in unbelief, he will perish either way.  You never did answer my earlier question, why this is relevant at all.  You merely said that it was the difference between the true Church and the apostate one ... in arbitrary terms, begging the question.  


3)  As to your belief in "soul sleep", the Jehovah's Witnesses also believe in the same... hence an example of denominational religion that believes and potentially uses that to gain converts, which in turn tithe money into the religious organization.  I say that to point out the fact that ANY doctrine can be used to get money if that it is the motive behind it.  Is that the motive behind the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine?  I don't know.  But I doubt it.  The point is, I don't use such fallacious argumentation of what people do with dogma, to refute or support the truth of it.  It is another issue completely.  


4)  How can you so easily jump from being an agnostic (We cannot know God) to being a recipient of divine revelation, and not only so, but one of the scant few in the universe to be able to get it right!?  Pardon me, but which Opeth are we to listen to?  I am not making fun of your struggle or attempting to irritate.  But in light of all that you said, can you expect someone to really think you've got it figured out?  How easily can some one accept creeds which are apparantly unsettled in even your mind?  Especially seeing you tend to mock honest questioning when it is asked, or tell people they aren't elite as you to understand, and so aren't worthy of explaination or doctrinal clarification.


5)  You still have not addressed such  scriptures as the one where Jesus has rebuke for a church that is doctrinally correct, but without ardent love.  This suggests to me that your whole conception of the "little flock" has at least the possibility of error.  I am not saying that right doctrine is not important, but there are 'weightier matters of the law'.  In one sweep, your statements accuse Christendom across the board as crooks, swindlers, and deceivers.  The specks become motes, and in eyes you've never seen.  You are not God.  And to be honest I sense very little love in anything you say.  Remember, "You will know a tree by it's fruit"?  Where is the fruit of the Spirit to at least make the things you say palatable?  Remember that a little sugar helps the medicine go down.  And you may find the need for less and less sugar as you become a trusted physician.  But since there are a lot of travelling medicine men around, bear with us.  I'm having a hard time even hearing what you are saying beyond the bitterness and anger at religion that you exude.  You say that good and evil cannot come up together... that truth and heresy can not occur in the same churches.  I say this is totally unscriptural to believe so!  Remember Jesus' parable of the wheat & tares?  Yes, I know he was speaking of the world primarily.  But Paul also said, "There must be heresies among you that some may be approved".  Half of the heresy that Paul dealt with was in the churches and much of it was not doctrinal as much as practical.  


6)  If you are really of a Christian concern to help others see, then you will be able to address my honest concerns about your doctrine, by answering the above concern #1 for example.  You cannot just take honest scriptural concerns, shoot them down, and say you don't want to discuss it with those who aren't "called" and "enlightened" like yourself.  This is obscurantism at the max.


Stephen.

[This message has been edited by Stephanos (11-30-2002 02:24 PM).]

furlong
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49 posted 11-30-2002 02:48 PM       View Profile for furlong   Email furlong   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for furlong

Stephen

Ok, you have made two clear points:

“... that the metaphysical proposition of a unity of body and spirit is more cogent than taking either side by itself.”

I’d be interested to know if you think you would feel that way if you had never heard of the Bible and if you had never been indoctrinated (as I was) in the Judeo-Christian tradition?  But perhaps that’s unfair.  Perhaps that question is difficult or impossible for you to answer?  In any event I can only repeat what I’ve already said which is that such a marriage appears to be too ludicrous to contemplate, and interestingly all the detailed objections that Opeth raises seem to me to flow from the attempt to design a doctrine around the oxymoronic spirit/matter combination.

“But my use of scirpture is to show that this is what the Judeo-Christian tradition holds, and supported by what Jesus taught.”

Two distinct elements here:

1  Your use of scripture is to show what Judeo-Christian tradition holds?

Yes sure it is.  I don’t disagree with that.

2   Your use of scripture is to show what Jesus taught?

No.  As you rightly go on to point out: it is to show what you (and other mainstream Christians) THINK Jesus taught.

Much as I might like to discuss Mrs Eddy’s views I flagged them merely to illustrate a modern day interpretation of one of the extremes.  I’m not sure that I am sufficiently convinced by them to argue them in the face of one so entrenched in a traditional view as yourself even if I had the detailed knowledge to do so .    My intended contribution to this thread was merely to state what I happen to believe to be the impossibility of the middle way with the consequent implications that that has for any form of physical afterlife.  As for Mrs Eddy’s stature I admit I have not read the primary texts in full (either the Bible or S&H) but I have read all the Peel biography and several others, together with much of her ancillary writing, letters, debates and lecture transcripts, together with many media articles (mainly newspapers) about her.  I think I am sufficiently qualified in that respect to make a reasonably accurate assessment of how her peers judged her, always taking into account of course that she was a woman in the late 19thC early 20thC, engaged in an arena where vested interests were often viciously protected and bigotry and misogynism were rife.
 
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