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A question

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Red
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0 posted 11-05-2002 10:20 PM       View Profile for Red   Email Red   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red

I'm not really sure if this is the right place for this (?) but since this IS the philosophy forum, perhaps someone here will have an answer for me.

If one were to decide to pursue a degree in philosophy, other then teaching and love of the subject aside... what career options are there?

Essorant
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1 posted 11-05-2002 11:14 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

  
I believe Philosophy is a love seeking the highest upward of the mind and soul, wherein are millioned degrees and studies. Only a minute meal of these can we get academically served and confirmed while the majority is too complex to be attained by school and books and words.  I suppose all degrees can be a benefit to one seeking something in the career-force, even though many modern businesses and employees don't apply philosophy anymore, they only apply thought process.  This is a bleak thing that is now called "philosophy" but is not--philosophy is a loving process, not a key-cold thinking process.  If you can't love your career, can you really think well for it anyway?  I know I wouldn't be able to.  
They still are bias to those who have a reference of philosophiy on their resume, to go toward a feeling, seeming and suggestion of not just being just thought and money oriented but having something of true philosophy in the background I guess because they probably don't.   So definitly I would say if you want to be preferred, degrees of philosophy are an advantage anywhere.  The options should be as substantial as the degrees.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-05-2002 11:25 PM).]

Red
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2 posted 11-07-2002 01:08 AM       View Profile for Red   Email Red   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red

Thanks for responding Essorant
You brought up some things that I had thought about myself...
"If you can't love your career, can you really think well for it anyway?"

-- and that's why I asked.... on one hand, you want to do something that you love and on the other, you understand the philosophy of money and want to get paid well, therefore..... I wonder what a philosophy degree actually does?

-and I don't mean anything negative by that at all, just something I've been curious about.  

[This message has been edited by Red (11-07-2002 01:08 AM).]

Brad
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3 posted 11-07-2002 08:06 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Just about anything you want. Philosophy isn't just about knowledge of philosophy, it's about being able think philosophically and that means critically.
Essorant
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4 posted 11-07-2002 04:47 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Don't be gulled by the prestiges of the Universities.  Everything thought and feeling one has is a degree of Philosphy--thus we are all philosphers  by our degrees, whether we have academic degrees or not.

But this is the cause of my qualm with Universities-- They want a gargantoun amount of money, but then you have to demonstrate things at there hasty and strict pace.  It is no fair.  And there is little flexibility at University, they want everything so mathematically correct which hinders many of those who can make it to the same results but just need a different route and a bit more time.  These people are not given access to University resources professors and professions.
If you want to be more original and save money I say find influence by some historicals that have been published in words who had the deepest dedication to their studies---Aristotle, and Plato.  Study them deeply not skimmingly as if you are at school on a time limit.   Avoid the moderns unless you are prepared to face excess long words, and mathematics, and lack of spirituality.  Most of all though I would recommend keeping more faithful your own native philosphies, there is nothing less philosphical than being but furnished with other peoples opinion upon philosphical matters...this is just my own belief of the course I think one should take as a more practical alternative now adays.  
I hope someday to create a passage for people like me who stuggle and can't meet the outrageous requirements of most Universities in marks and money to get to the superior resources, and find the higher education they most want.  It could be like a library but one where professors work as well, and will teach as readily as librarians will help one find a book.  There will be rooms and university like course offerings, complements to their own pursuits, on a bit of a smaller scale, and it will give people who can't get to university the opportunity to still learn the same, but more on their own pace and time.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-07-2002 04:57 PM).]

Brad
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5 posted 11-07-2002 05:04 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Essorant,

It's called Open Education. The Open University is the largest university in Britain and I worked at KNOU, Korea National Open University for six years. Perhaps, these systems should be expanded in your area? They aren't perfect by any means, but they are essentially trying to do what you've described here.

Nice to see someone interested in education in this way.
hush
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6 posted 11-08-2002 03:56 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I don't understand why you object ot universities, Essorant.

The things your protest are what prepares us for the real world.

For example, I am studying to be a nurse. I am in several classes, all with deadlines, specific dates that class and lecture are held, course objectives, etc.

If I were to spend an inordinate amount of time on one thing and neglect the others, that simply prepares me for a work environment where I can spend half and hour taking vitals. That's just not realistic. If nurses all spend that much time doing one thing, one of two things would happen. 1.) Quality of patient care would plummet. Yeah, I'm taking vitals of one person very thoroughly, but what about my patient who's coding in another room and nobody knows it because everyone's taking vitals? or 2.) Hospitals would be forced to hire many more nurses. This would lead to nurses getting paid less, healthcare costs (aolready ridiculously high) skyrocketing, or both.

Learning punctuality and having the ability to multi-task, prioritize, and think about more than one thing at once are all very important skills in my intended career, and in most others.

'And there is little flexibility at University, they want everything so mathematically correct which hinders many of those who can make it to the same results but just need a different route and a bit more time.  These people are not given access to University resources professors and professions.'

This isn't true at all. If you want to work at a slower pace, just take less credit hours, or go part-time.

jbouder
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7 posted 11-08-2002 04:39 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Sometimes it is not so important where you go to learn as it is for you to acquire the discipline to learn continuously.

Other times, I think, where you learn has a real impact on the quality of the skills and habits you acquire.

On one hand, I think I agree with Essorant to the extent that too much of a focus is often directed at obtaining the degree rather than obtaining knowledge and developing the tools to use that knowledge.

On the other hand, I believe I agree with Hush insomuch as there are certain disciplines that most people cannot learn efficiently without some formal education (e.g., medicine and law).

Jim

P.S. Red ... I have to agree with Brad (concerning your question).
Red
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8 posted 11-08-2002 08:53 PM       View Profile for Red   Email Red   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red

First of all, thanks everyone for replying!

"Just about anything you want. Philosophy isn't just about knowledge of philosophy, it's about being able think philosophically and that means critically."

This I already knew, I get the same answer about English as well 'helps you think critically' etc etc etc and while I DO believe that is an extremely valuable tool I also know that I would hope to do something I enjoy and while these are two subjects I love learning about, I wonder exactly what type of careers are focused on them?  This doesn't mean office business type jobs to me, that is not something I personally would like.... which made me wonder, what SPECIFIC job can you get with a philosophy degree?  What I mean is I know English, you can be a writer, a journalist, work for a newspaper etc amongst other things.  Medicine degrees mean you can be a doctor, own your own practice and other tings, but I can't think of anything that a philsophy degree is specific to besides being a philosophy teacher?
I don't think I'm making any sense.lol  Oh well, maybe someone will understand my rambling?

I guess it comes down to this for me : "too much of a focus is often directed at obtaining the degree rather than obtaining knowledge and developing the tools to use that knowledge."----  I semi-agree, knowledge and tools are ultimately what someone goes to school for but let's be realistic, money is what makes the world go round so the degree is VERY important, in my opinon anyways...... besides, who wants the enormous debt that going to school creates be for nothing but a useless degree??  

Red
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9 posted 11-08-2002 09:03 PM       View Profile for Red   Email Red   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red

Reading this over and thinking about education, I just wanted to say that I would have to agree with Hush... education does prepare us for the real world!  Granted, the educational system is not perfect; however, I think of it this way:  Before school, I thought I knew quite a bit, now, I realize that I truly don't know anything about anything, but I can learn, and that's the joy of it!   Essorant said : "Study them deeply not skimmingly as if you are at school on a time limit."----  I wouldn't even know 'they' existed had I not gone to school!
I guess different things work for different people.... I just wish school were free!!!!!  I'll whole-heartedly agree with Essorant there. "They want a gargantoun amount of money"  Darn right they do, thieves!!
Essorant
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10 posted 11-09-2002 11:03 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Brad,

Are Open Universities in North America?  
Actually that direction sounds a bit too logical for this quarter of the world, mostly because the United States has got such an immodest deliring hand over the majority.  
There are few enterprises opened anymore in this quarter of the world unless they are opened to put money into.   Nothing is for the sake of itself, but it needs to be a receptacle for money in one way or another.  Over pelf-concious and corporationlike.  This because we are trying to replace civilization and nature with business and technology as far as we can get to absolute--they are the more concerning project.  The highest educational quests of the past and plans to preserve nature are discarded and tramppled devoutly by  this age to points where most of the time it is hard to see there existance at all through the unnatural elements of haste, money, grease, pollution and gore.  I wouldn't detest these aspect so much if these things weren't so engrossed up to excess and everywhere in the media, it affects to points where I am either feeling and thinking or laughing too much in insane pain or too numb to feel or think anything at all.


Hush,
I understand it is important to nursing. But in these other areas of classic literature, arts, mythology philosphy  and such, life should be enjoyable, these are things about opening the soul and enjoying.  Not be catagorized as educational and for the scholars, pedantic etc. Yet people talk about having to read  three books in a week, it is tedious trying to get deep but superficially because you are in such time limits. This is little to some people, I think could do it, but I never would choose to.  You can't be an architect if you don't know french.  Or learn a different language at uni if you don't have the average grade overall the university wants for your subjects.  It just gets to a point where people maybe should wonder if they should go to university at all or boycott it.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-10-2002 12:32 AM).]

Essorant
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11 posted 11-10-2002 12:00 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

what SPECIFIC job can you get with a philosophy degree?

A hero to the people intellectually and practically, who, will give the hope and a way to emerge out of the problems of the age through writing, speaking and establishing institutions.   This is not just a job though, but a dedication where the philospher must influence and move the masses--you must speak at functions your mind without writing the volumes down first, be natural, do not wear strict formalities, in other word be yourself the most and speak your heart.  If people don't listen always speak louder, write more, if it is truth everyone will attend eventually.  I believe that this is the ultimate occupation of the philospher.
Red
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12 posted 11-10-2002 12:26 AM       View Profile for Red   Email Red   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red

I like that answer Essorant!!!  

I wanted to change the world when I was young but now I don't know that I would ever feel qualified to move any masses so I guess I best think of a better degree to pursue?lol

Really though, I liked your answer a lot, it was inspiring!!!!!  Makes me think of it differently...
Essorant
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13 posted 11-10-2002 12:54 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

I'll work from my corner, you work from yours--eventually we will cover all degrees!  
hush
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14 posted 11-11-2002 09:35 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

'There are few enterprises opened anymore in this quarter of the world unless they are opened to put money into.   Nothing is for the sake of itself, but it needs to be a receptacle for money in one way or another.'

Universities don't grow on tress, you know. How else do you expect professors to get paid? How expensive do you think the utilities bills and equipment in the multiple buildings are? Not to mention athletic facilities and extracurricular clubs and activities.

How else are they supposed to pay for it? Lay the burden on taxpayers, not all of whom will benefit from universities? That's not fair. Besides, the public school system in my city is pitiful- and thanks, but no thanks, I'd just as soon not be subjected to that for four more years.

If you put things in context of paying professor salaries and being able to afford proper facilities and teaching equipment, I don't think that moderately priced universities are that outrageous.
Essorant
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15 posted 11-11-2002 11:22 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Hush
I never claimed not to be confused about most of it.  I don't know where the problem lies specificially.  I just feel there is something in the costage area and the admission standards that are too difficult.   Everyone should have a right to the best education, and most people should be attaining it, but it doesn't seem like this is the how it stands right now in most areas.  It seems one must either always have done very well at generally everything in her academic history in order to take something, almost anything, specifically at the University or should avoid university because it is not for her.  There is no forgetting about failures in algebra just because your course doesn't use mathematics, or uses the most basic arithmetic or english courses even though your course might be mathematic oriented. And then if you do get accepted the courses are conducted like a business operations or training, with an outline, and set order porportioned just so everything can go very quickly.  
These are where I feel some of the flaws are with the university system.  

[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-11-2002 11:44 AM).]

hush
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16 posted 11-11-2002 03:49 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Once again, Essorant, I disagree.

Pretty much everyone with a 2.5 or above can get into universities in my area. Standards are lower for community college (which is really cheap, BTW.) 2.5 is what, a "C" average? I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

Most schools will also make arrangements for you to meet their requirments. For example, to get into my program of study, I had to have a HS chemistry credit- which I didn't. So they simply delayed my entry into the program a semester, got me going on prereq's, including chem.

My attitude might be so school-oriented because I have always flourished in a traditional educational atmosphere. It's just the way I learn best- with guidance, deadlines (to get me off my butt and working on something), and challenges.

Also- in college, you spend a lot less time in the classroom than you do in primary-secondary education. You are given (IMO) plenty of time outside of scheduled classes to do assignments, and work if need be.

I hope I'm not sounding too high-handed. If I do, I don't mean to. I don't mean to make it sound like there's something wrong with someone who has trouble with university education. I do, however, think there are ways to work around that trouble that are more productive than fighting the system as a whole.
Essorant
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17 posted 11-12-2002 12:38 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Hush,
I will trust your sayings and thoughts above mine. I have never been a good speaker or thinker, and have been working from vague areas with little knowledge.  You don't sound highhand or arrogant to me, you sound practical and knowledgable.

[This message has been edited by Essorant (11-12-2002 12:41 PM).]

 
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