PIP Philosophy 101, Big FAN, Longtime listener, first time caller, I'd like to request anything by Wayne Newton, dedicated to my girl in Alcatraz doing 10-20 yrs for mailing large cats to small dogs.
Hi Napkin, its obvious to me which forum you are talking about. Critical Analysis, the beloved forum, the white rhino, the Maltese Falcon, the emerald in the sky, the twinkle in the sprinkle of a child's candied eye, ok if that doesn't peeve people off I don't know what will Hey what does this button do? (Trevor presses the button and a horde of Open Poetry posters engage in a ginsu knife demonstration on the naive poet's belly.)
"It's not about replies or questions, it's the way you say things to people. You can't go around insulting people, and trying to disguise it by saying itís constructive criticism."
While I do agree that occasionally some people could use a little more etiquette, you still have to remember that comments are directed at the poem and not the poet. If by chance someone makes a personal remark and mud-slings then I agree with Toad that you should contact the moderators.
"I even had someone tell me that my poetry wonít be read. Why? Because I said I was unwilling to change words in my poetry."
I read that same post, personally I think the person was trying to state the opinion of, why should anyone bother to comment upon a poem if the poet states outright he will not change a word? It's just as insulting to a person using their free time to critique a poem and have the poet say,"I will never change my words or structure of my poetry.", as it would be for them to say, "In my opinion you should not write poetry.". Both seem to attempt to squash a speakers voice. And if you are insulted or defensive when people suggest change, then it almost comes across as if you will only accept "good" comments. If someone feels the poem is not the best you could do, yet you don't even consider change, then why should they continue to try and give you workable ideas on how to "improve" your poetry. Cause if its just "fluffy" comments you want then check out Open Poetry...j/k, How many enemies did I make with that comment?
"I mean Iím reading this persons piece, and he has rewritten it four times, four times! Iím like damn, is this some sort of high school exam or what?"
Not an exam, more like a pop quiz. Four times, damn, sounds a lot like something I would do and for the record its now up to five...I think I've discovered perpetual motion, critique-change-critique-change. Which version did you prefer? Normally I don't do a lot of rewrites after its been critiqued prefering not only to snack on comments made but to also let the mind settle so that I may get a fresher perspective on the poem. I decided to push this poem because I'm finding the evolution of it kinda interesting and informative. I'm changing it...and often....to suit the eyes of others because I am learning, (or trying to), what they see when they read poetry, my poetry in particular. I'm learning new ways to break up lines, new ways to punctuate and alliterate and it forces me into rethinking old metaphors and descriptions. That's the beauty of poetry, there is never a moment where you can't learn something, such is the beauty of life as well. Sometimes though I just say, "stuff it! I'm keeping it the way I want" and was just curious to see if anyone else, other than myself, would enjoy it because I am "right" on this one. Then about three months later I re-read it and end up changing it anyways. I don't think anyone is telling you how to write, but rather how you may be more "successful" with your poetry, at least in their opinion and in the sense of reaching a larger audience.
"Be constructive if you must, but donít insult me, and tell me I donít have a right to say anything."
Truth is, in my opinion, we all write some pretty dreadful stuff, (to call ourselves "good" would be insulting to the great writers throughout history, because if not them, then who should we use as a watermark?), and none of us like to be told just how amatuery we can all be sometimes. It stings to have someone say they dislike a poem, because a poem, due to its length and format, has the tendency to be packed with or attached to, raw, core emotions and experiences. No one likes to feel that their emotions aren't validated or that the way they express themselves isn't enjoyable. I don't know if anyone ever gets over that sting completely. I think it was Dickenson who said, "The irony of the writer is that we spend all our time alone trying to relate to others."...or something like that.
"How do you think that makes me feel when someone tells me, since Iím unwilling to change my words in ďmy poetryĒ I wonít be read?"
Probably similar to the way they feel when they are told you will never change your writing no matter what they say. Think I've just discovered "perpetual un-motion". Writing for an audience is, in my opinion, a game of give and take. You can't want to show your work and say that you only write for yourself, therefore, you can't only write for yourself if you expect others to read your work. Well I guess some do, born with two blessed pens in each hand and a natural gift that can only be explained as God-like, but they too payed their dues or lucked out with a sixth sense of a publisher's whim. I guess essentially, we all write for ourselves, even when we write for others because we all want praise for our efforts to connect a better'd world. Okay I'm done.
Well, I hope you're all happy now, see what you've brought on yourselves, another bloated response from the ever bingeful son of a goat.
PS One more quick thing,
"It's not about replies or questions, it's the way you say things to people. You can't go around insulting people"
but you've also said,
"Why is that every one of these little departments, with the exception of "open poetry," have only five or six people, the same people, flapping their gums,",
some people may construde that as an insult, probably the gum flappers I believe we...errrr...I mean they, have their own political party now. And there is a bill in Congress being passed around for three hookers and a hotel room that no one is willing to pay. ba-dump-da....one show, one show only, Las Vegas, get your tickets while you can .
[This message has been edited by Trevor (08-01-2002 03:46 AM).]