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Passions in Poetry

I kept wondering why

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The Napkin Writer
Member
since 06-28-2002
Posts 72


0 posted 07-31-2002 08:24 AM       View Profile for The Napkin Writer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for The Napkin Writer

Why is that every one of these little departments, with the exception of "open poetry," have only five or six people, the same people, flapping their gums, and the morjority poets at PIP, stay away from their departments?

There was a poet last week, asking why no one was posting at one of the departments?  You ever thought that you're running away the poets, whom are willing to post, but it's at the point, they rather leave then to keep being insulted?

There is only so much people are willing to take, after that, they find the safest place, and settle there!  I kept wondering why so many of these little department was always empty!

So now it's been said!  And insteed of trying insult me again, as I have been since I got here, prove me wrong and let me see more then the five or six poets at these departments!

And don't ask me what departments, no one here is blind, you know what departments!

nakdthoughts
Member Laureate
since 10-29-2000
Posts 19275
Between the Lines


1 posted 07-31-2002 09:35 AM       View Profile for nakdthoughts   Email nakdthoughts   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for nakdthoughts

First and foremost this is a poetry site and even the other "departments" as you call them are open to those who "wish" to respond and or post...and is not a requirement.

Many on here have chosen to post wherever and whenever because they have had bad experiences elsewhere. It is a family atmosphere for many and when a subject other than "why people do or do not post" is brought up, those interested respond and keep a "department" lively.

Hope this helps you to understand.
Regards
M
Marsha
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Rara Avis
since 07-10-2000
Posts 7542
Maidstone Kent England


2 posted 07-31-2002 09:39 AM       View Profile for Marsha   Email Marsha   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marsha's Home Page   View IP for Marsha

Hi there, to get read you have to read, to get a reply you must reply. This is very much an open and friendly place, people find the place the forum they are most comfortable in. No one directs them where to write, no one can make them reply.


Take care
Marsha
Kethry
Member Rara Avis
since 07-29-2000
Posts 9235
Victoria Australia


3 posted 07-31-2002 09:45 AM       View Profile for Kethry   Email Kethry   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kethry

I used to write in dark and I occasionally write in adult and I post in prose, but open is where my friends are and where I post most often. I would post where I wanted even if I got no replies so I must be one of the five or six who are flapping my gums. Don't let the wind from my flapping gums disturb you at all it doesn't disturb me.
Kethry

Here in the midst of my lonely abyss, a single joy I find...your presence in my mind.  Unknown


Opeth
Member Elite
since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


4 posted 07-31-2002 09:55 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

I have alot of gum to flap.
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


5 posted 07-31-2002 12:53 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Huh? Nobody tried to insult you... but you post something in a philosophy forum... don't you expect to be questioned and refuted at every turn? It's the nature of the forum... nobody's trying to scare you off... but this forum happens to be a more up-front, data-based area, whereas some of the open poetry areas are focused mainly on emotional, "I can relate to that" types of responses. If analysis of your thoughts and ideas scares you away... it's not the individual people who are at fault... it's simply the fact that you respond more favorably to emotional, rather than analytical comments. My apologies if anything I said sounded harsh... but I would think about this, and in the future, try to post accordingly.

Who is John Galt?

bsquirrel
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Member Rara Avis
since 01-03-2000
Posts 8382


6 posted 07-31-2002 02:53 PM       View Profile for bsquirrel   Email bsquirrel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for bsquirrel

Time is finite. Posts here, sometimes, seem to stretch that boundary into more infinite dimensions. When you have the time, you can read for hours on end and only reply to 35 posts! It's a lot of personal investment, so you're going to make choices on whether to keep reading this person, or not, when one of your favorites has suddenly posted 3.

If it's any other reason, that's probably more internal than external.

Mikey (aka Flapjaw the Rodent)

Said if I only could ...
-KB

MidnightSon
Member
since 05-15-2002
Posts 328
between the gutter & the stars


7 posted 07-31-2002 04:06 PM       View Profile for MidnightSon   Email MidnightSon   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for MidnightSon

at the risk of sounding like everyone else, people round here post where they want.
yeah the other forums outside of open are slower... but they have a theme.
Open is well...open. anyone and everyone can post in there.
dark insiuates your poetry must be dark, spiritual that it must be spiritual, and so on.... it's not always true, but a lot of surfers and users judge the forum by its title and post accordingly.
and that's what you should do. post where you think you current poem will fit in. and always carry a few grains of salt to take the criticism with. cause you can't take everyone in here seriously, myself included.

it's our struggle for identity that leaves us all unknown

Toad
Member
since 06-16-2002
Posts 247


8 posted 07-31-2002 05:34 PM       View Profile for Toad   Email Toad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toad

The Napkin Writer

quote:
Why is that every one of these little departments, with the exception of "open poetry," have only five or six people, the same people, flapping their gums, and the morjority poets at PIP, stay away from their departments?

As has been pointed out people tend to write more poetry that fits into the slot that Open covers, then again Open generally has more visitors reading poetry so a post in there has a potentially greater audience.
quote:
There was a poet last week, asking why no one was posting at one of the departments? You ever thought that you're running away the poets, whom are willing to post, but it's at the point, they rather leave then to keep being insulted?

This seems to imply that people are Ďinsultedí on a regular basis, I can only recall a handful of individual incidents where a member was openly insulted and in all cases the matter was dealt with swiftly by a moderator.
quote:
There is only so much people are willing to take, after that, they find the safest place, and settle there! I kept wondering why so many of these little department was always empty!

Most forums have quiet spells but none are Ďalways emptyí, the forum this post is in is a prime example take a look at the threads and posting dates and I think youíll find that even a seemingly quiet forum does have itís busy periods.
quote:
So now it's been said! And insteed of trying insult me again, as I have been since I got here, prove me wrong and let me see more then the five or six poets at these departments!

Iím assuming that you feel that you have been insulted since you first arrived, maybe you have, in which case I strongly suggest you raise the matter with a moderator citing specific cases on which the moderator WILL act if deemed necessary.
quote:
And don't ask me what departments, no one here is blind, you know what departments!

Although thankfully not clinically blind myself I am compelled to ask Ė Which departments?
--------------------------------------------------

Marsha

quote:
to get read you have to read, to get a reply you must reply


How do you judge the sincerity of a reply that is posted merely to ellicit reciprocal replies and would a strict adherence to these rules result in good poems and poets being overlooked?

Thanks for the chance to read and reply.

  

[This message has been edited by Toad (08-02-2002 06:13 PM).]

The Napkin Writer
Member
since 06-28-2002
Posts 72


9 posted 07-31-2002 09:35 PM       View Profile for The Napkin Writer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for The Napkin Writer

It's not about replies or questions, it's the way you say things to people.  You can't go around insulting people, and trying to disguise it by saying itís constructive criticism.  I donít want anyone to take the blame for what I feel, but at the same time, I donít want anyone thinking that Iím so naive, that I canít tell the difference a insult and constructive criticism.  

I even had someone tell me that my poetry wonít be read. Why?  Because I said I was unwilling to change words in my poetry.  Because I donít wish to rewrite something until it meet some ones specifications?  Now is that wrong?  

I mean Iím reading this persons piece, and he has rewritten it four times, four times!  Iím like damn, is this some sort of high school exam or what?   Now maybe that person is more than willing to do things that way, and that's that persons right, but I donít think that ďIĒ should be threaten with that!  

Come on, thatís is not what constructive criticism is about!  It about giving your opinion to a person without threatening that person being.  How do you think that makes me feel when someone tells me, since Iím unwilling to change my words in ďmy poetryĒ I wonít be read?  You tell me how thatís right!  Relationships in a family are supposed to be based on trust, security, freedom of expression and so forth.  Be constructive if you must, but donít insult me, and tell me I donít have a right to say anything.  I mean whatís next; I get kicked of PIP for having an opinion that differs.  I grew up in the sixties and seventies, so my opinion is going to differ from someone who was born in the eighties, or the thirties, but that donít give either of our opinion dominion over the others.  No one has power over anybody else, to make them do something against their will.  So way do that to each other?

As far as my poetry goes, I can keep it to myself, because I really like Philosophy 101.  The questions and some of the answers intrigue me.  And Iíve met some really nice people there who I would love to call my friends.  I do like it here, and Iíve started a couple of times to just pack it in, but Iíve found so much value in the things people say here, and that, I am appreciative of, so I'm still staying.

P.s.
"I didn't say someone ask me to leave okay, that also, is not an issue with me."  
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


10 posted 07-31-2002 11:37 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

This is extremely confusing for me. Did someone insult you here? Is that why this comment is here? But the questions seem to revolve around poetry, not a position.

Help.
Trevor
Senior Member
since 08-12-99
Posts 744
Canada


11 posted 08-01-2002 03:34 AM       View Profile for Trevor   Email Trevor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trevor

Hello all,

PIP Philosophy 101, Big FAN, Longtime listener, first time caller, I'd like to request anything by Wayne Newton, dedicated to my girl in Alcatraz doing 10-20 yrs for mailing large cats to small dogs.

Hi Napkin, its obvious to me which forum you are talking about. Critical Analysis, the beloved forum, the white rhino, the Maltese Falcon, the emerald in the sky, the twinkle in the sprinkle of a child's candied eye, ok if that doesn't peeve people off I don't know what will   Hey what does this button do? (Trevor presses the button and a horde of Open Poetry posters engage in a ginsu knife demonstration on the naive poet's belly.)

"It's not about replies or questions, it's the way you say things to people.  You can't go around insulting people, and trying to disguise it by saying itís constructive criticism."

While I do agree that occasionally some people could use a little more etiquette, you still have to remember that comments are directed at the poem and not the poet. If by chance someone makes a personal remark and mud-slings then I agree with Toad that you should contact the moderators.

"I even had someone tell me that my poetry wonít be read. Why?  Because I said I was unwilling to change words in my poetry."

I read that same post, personally I think the person was trying to state the opinion of, why should anyone bother to comment upon a poem if the poet states outright he will not change a word? It's just as insulting to a person using their free time to critique a poem and have the poet say,"I will never change my words or structure of my poetry.", as it would be for them to say, "In my opinion you should not write poetry.". Both seem to attempt to squash a speakers voice.  And if you are insulted or defensive when people suggest change, then it almost comes across as if you will only accept "good" comments. If someone feels the poem is not the best you could do, yet you don't even consider change, then why should they continue to try and give you workable ideas on how to "improve" your poetry. Cause if its just "fluffy" comments you want then check out Open Poetry...j/k, How many enemies did I make with that comment?  


"I mean Iím reading this persons piece, and he has rewritten it four times, four times!  Iím like damn, is this some sort of high school exam or what?"

Not an exam, more like a pop quiz. Four times, damn, sounds a lot like something I would do and for the record its now up to five...I think I've discovered perpetual motion, critique-change-critique-change. Which version did you prefer? Normally I don't do a lot of rewrites after its been critiqued prefering not only to snack on comments made but to also let the mind settle so that I may get a fresher perspective on the poem. I decided to push this poem because I'm finding the evolution of it kinda interesting and informative. I'm changing it...and often....to suit the eyes of others because I am learning, (or trying to), what they see when they read poetry, my poetry in particular. I'm learning new ways to break up lines, new ways to punctuate and alliterate and it forces me into rethinking old metaphors and descriptions. That's the beauty of poetry, there is never a moment where you can't learn something, such is the beauty of life as well. Sometimes though I just say, "stuff it! I'm keeping it the way I want" and was just curious to see if anyone else, other than myself, would enjoy it because I am "right" on this one. Then about three months later I re-read it and end up changing it anyways. I don't think anyone is telling you how to write, but rather how you may be more "successful" with your poetry, at least in their opinion and in the sense of reaching a larger audience.

"Be constructive if you must, but donít insult me, and tell me I donít have a right to say anything."

Truth is, in my opinion, we all write some pretty dreadful stuff, (to call ourselves "good" would be insulting to the great writers throughout history, because if not them, then who should we use as a watermark?), and none of us like to be told just how amatuery we can all be sometimes. It stings to have someone say they dislike a poem, because a poem, due to its length and format, has the tendency to be packed with or attached to, raw, core emotions and experiences. No one likes to feel that their emotions aren't validated or that the way they express themselves isn't enjoyable. I don't know if anyone ever gets over that sting completely. I think it was Dickenson who said, "The irony of the writer is that we spend all our time alone trying to relate to others."...or something like that.

"How do you think that makes me feel when someone tells me, since Iím unwilling to change my words in ďmy poetryĒ I wonít be read?"

Probably similar to the way they feel when they are told you will never change your writing no matter what they say. Think I've just discovered "perpetual un-motion".   Writing for an audience is, in my opinion, a game of give and take. You can't want to show your work and say that you only write for yourself, therefore, you can't only write for yourself if you expect others to read your work. Well I guess some do, born with two blessed pens in each hand and a natural gift that can only be explained as God-like, but they too payed their dues or lucked out with a sixth sense of a publisher's whim. I guess essentially, we all write for ourselves, even when we write for others because we all want praise for our efforts to connect a better'd world. Okay I'm done.

Well, I hope you're all happy now, see what you've brought on yourselves, another bloated response from the ever bingeful son of a goat.

Thanks all,

Trevor

PS One more quick thing,
you said,
"It's not about replies or questions, it's the way you say things to people.  You can't go around insulting people"

but you've also said,

"Why is that every one of these little departments, with the exception of "open poetry," have only five or six people, the same people, flapping their gums,",
some people may construde that as an insult, probably the gum flappers I believe we...errrr...I mean they, have their own political party now. And there is a bill in Congress being passed around for three hookers and a hotel room that no one is willing to pay. ba-dump-da....one show, one show only, Las Vegas, get your tickets while you can .  

  

[This message has been edited by Trevor (08-01-2002 03:46 AM).]

Janet Marie
Member Laureate
since 01-22-2000
Posts 18986


12 posted 08-01-2002 06:30 PM       View Profile for Janet Marie   Email Janet Marie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Janet Marie

quote:
How do you judge the sincerity of a reply that is posted merely to illicit reciprocal replies


that is a very good question when the place is run on a reply machine and me thinks is a whole nother thread topic. Could be very interesting.......wanna referee

quote:
and would a strict adherence to these rules result in good poems and poets being overlooked?

Not if I find your post first  


oooppps....I'm all out of gum ...

hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


13 posted 08-01-2002 10:46 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I'd be careful questioning the nature of the 'reply machine'... I did that once and it turned into a 100 post thread with a lot of ticked off people...

Who is John Galt?

MidnightSon
Member
since 05-15-2002
Posts 328
between the gutter & the stars


14 posted 08-16-2002 06:19 AM       View Profile for MidnightSon   Email MidnightSon   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for MidnightSon

LOL
"ecstacy is all you need
living in the big machine"
Toerag
Member Ascendant
since 07-29-99
Posts 5839
Ala bam a


15 posted 08-16-2002 03:12 PM       View Profile for Toerag   Email Toerag   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Toerag

Yo Nappie....I insult people all the time....I get insulted all the time....if it weren't for insults I wouldn't get any replies at all...I've read some of your stuff and even been nice, (and that's really unusual for me)...But then again, most of your stuff seems well written and well thought out?..LOL....I am just a run of the mill smart ass but people expect that from me, as I expect what I usually get...and I just don't understand?...My poetry sux, my attitude sux, and my responses are usually right in line with what I've written?...It's just not fair is it?....

[This message has been edited by Toerag (08-16-2002 03:17 PM).]

Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


16 posted 08-16-2002 03:16 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

I was going to comment on this but I found Trevor said exactly what I would have said.
quote:
"I even had someone tell me that my poetry wonít be read. Why?  Because I said I was unwilling to change words in my poetry."

I read that same post, personally I think the person was trying to state the opinion of, why should anyone bother to comment upon a poem if the poet states outright he will not change a word? It's just as insulting to a person using their free time to critique a poem and have the poet say,"I will never change my words or structure of my poetry.", as it would be for them to say, "In my opinion you should not write poetry.". Both seem to attempt to squash a speakers voice.  And if you are insulted or defensive when people suggest change, then it almost comes across as if you will only accept "good" comments. If someone feels the poem is not the best you could do, yet you don't even consider change, then why should they continue to try and give you workable ideas on how to "improve" your poetry. Cause if its just "fluffy" comments you want then check out Open Poetry...j/k, How many enemies did I make with that comment?

Of course, he di say it a little more eloquently than I would have

Pete

Never express yourself more clearly than you can think - Niels Bohr

 
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