How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 Philosophy 101
 What Facade?
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

What Facade?

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Professor Gloom
Member Elite
since 07-23-2000
Posts 3074
of Depression


0 posted 03-07-2002 10:33 AM       View Profile for Professor Gloom   Email Professor Gloom   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Professor Gloom's Home Page   View IP for Professor Gloom

First let me start by defining my term
Façade 2. the front part of anything: often used figuratively, with implications of an imposing appearance concealing something inferior.Webster’s New World Dictionary

This question comes partly from the pervious discussions about religion and partly from the possibilities of my own limited perceptions.  
What Façade is a person’s religion to what they present to the public?
With very few exceptions, most of us do not give the true accounting of ourselves to the public due to the fact that it would be self destructive to be known as a hypocrite.
Is the bulk of the population just giving lip service to religion?  Following the ways that are set before us, perhaps by our parents or maybe peers.  I’m sure there are plenty of examples where fear keeps the masses faithful, and not the fear of God, but of man.
Afghanistan of the Taliban is a prime example of that, they ruled by religious fear as dictated by the Oligarchy.  It is said that the Bible can be used to back any point of view and thus are the difference in the myriad of styles to worship One God.
Some people have great problems with Organized religion, others do not.
I just see many people wearing a religious facade, and acting differently when not so publicly viewed.
Is Religion just a Façade?

Gloom

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


1 posted 03-07-2002 11:52 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
With very few exceptions, most of us do not give the true accounting of ourselves to the public…


Religion? That statement is true not just for religion, but for EVERYTHING.
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


2 posted 03-07-2002 12:28 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

HEY! Ron - that's what I was going to say!

but, in line with that statement (Ron's following yours) i also want to add that just because people don't necessarily give a true accounting of themselves to the public, neither is it necessarily a facade. as i'm sure you know, there is a large difference between hiding something, and simply not giving everything. giving all of myself (ideas, thoughts, beliefs, etc.) to a stranger is not likely to happen. this may fall right in line with religion, though i'm not a religious person.

hmm... will think more about this, not an uninteresting question.

C
Professor Gloom
Member Elite
since 07-23-2000
Posts 3074
of Depression


3 posted 03-07-2002 01:11 PM       View Profile for Professor Gloom   Email Professor Gloom   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Professor Gloom's Home Page   View IP for Professor Gloom

Ron,
It is very true, it does apply to everything,
But religion is one of the things that make up the whole of the Façade.
An old time Snake Oil Salesman hides behind his false front,
But that is not even a small part religion, unless you want to call magic a religion,
Which is part of the entertainment that prepares the mark.
This leads into the next part of the question,
With the Flim Flam Man, he really doesn’t believe in the rhetoric,
We assume the Zealot does, but how much of that is true.
The believer going to worship devoutly every Sabbath,
The other days.. what?
Is belief part of the question?

Christopher,
Although this is based in a religious framework, it is not necessarily the only component.

Gloom
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


4 posted 03-07-2002 02:07 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

You need to distinguish, I think, between a patently false facade and one that is simply a less than accurate representation. The snake oil salesman (we presume) is purposely putting on a mask. He's trying to fool someone, usually for his own gain. Most people do exactly the same thing on a first date.

People not only don't give a true accounting of themselves in public, they almost always give a different accounting in different publics. You don't act the same way around your dad as you do your boss, and neither of them would probably recognize you at a bachelor party. Those are generalities of course, but I think the principle is universal. People always wear masks.

I'll agree with Chris that most people are wary of revealing everything to everyone. I'd carry it farther, though, and say that no one ever reveals everything to anyone. We all keep secrets. Even from ourselves. Sometimes, especially from ourselves.

What you're really trying to do, I think, is equate this facade with hypocrisy. Are they the same? Sometimes, but certainly not always. If I tell you that I don't drink and you walk into the room and see me with a champagne glass, it doesn't necessarily mean that I lied to you. It usually just means I didn't tell the whole truth, often because it's not important, more often because it would take two or three days to do so. Even if I was a teetotaler, I would probably toast my daughter's wedding. Most convictions are conditional, and some are VERY conditional. It's also possible I don't drink because I'm a recovering alcoholic. If you see me with a beer it doesn't mean I'm a hypocrite, it just means I'm less than perfect. Convictions are also very temporal, and it only takes a moment to succumb to temptation.

You certainly shouldn't judge a man based solely on what he says about himself, but I think it's almost as dangerous to judge based only on incidents taken out of context. The smart man, I think, judges patterns, repetitions, and context. The wise one, of course, doesn't judge at all.


hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


5 posted 03-07-2002 10:04 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I think that most people who feel strongly enough about religion that they want to present it to a public earnestly believe what they are presenting. Why would someone who's only a go-with-the-flow believer have any reason to start preaching or discussing to others?

People who actively bring God (or whatever deity(s) or lack thereof is in their lives) are most likely passionate about it. It doesn't make sense to bring something up to people you barely know unless it's something you care about.

And if a go-with-the-flow believer is approached about God, they'll probably say, "oh yeah, I believe in God" and leave it at that. If they aren't passionate about the subject, they're likely to shrug it off, And if they are approached by someone perhaps a bit too zealous and demanding of faith ("so, what, you don't believe in God?" or "Oh, I see, you one of those Sunday-only Christians") they're likely to get defensive.

So... I guess what I'm wondering is... what's the point? Chris made a pretty good point. Just because we don't walk around with little signs flashing everything about us, it doesn't mean we're in the closet about something either. Why would I want the public to know every little truth about me? Not only would it reveal things I would maybe rather have kept private (and even if this is a religious belief, I don't see how that becomes hipocracy unless I am wearing a little tell-all sign full of lies) but it would also take the fun out of getting to know people.

"Love is a piano
dropped from a four story window
and you were in the wrong place
at the wrong time." -Ani DiFranco

miscellanea
Member Elite
since 06-24-2004
Posts 3983
OH


6 posted 07-26-2004 08:46 PM       View Profile for miscellanea   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for miscellanea

With very few exceptions, most of us do not give the true accounting of ourselves to the public due to the fact that it would be self destructive to be known as a hypocrite.

Hm. A sentence for thought.  I might go along the the part where "most of us do not give the true accounting of ourselves to the public", but I'm not so sure the reason is because "it would be self destructive to be known as a hypocrite!"
  For example, let's look at silence. Perhaps silence is a way of showing respect for others' points of view. If I'm silent, making no waves, it may appear that I go along with ideas that I don't agree with.  When in fact, I may be currently balancing those ideas out within, not being a hypocrit at all.  

   I don't think most people intend to be hypocrital.  Personally, I think our minds move so fast and far, that we're all in a state of searching and confusion most of the time! Sometimes the changes in thinking occur so quickly that it's difficult to evaluate everything else that is relevant, making our little inconsistencies seem like a facade.
  Might a facade be just a time warp in thinking?    
                      misc'e
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


7 posted 07-27-2004 02:45 AM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

This is a very interesting discussion, Professor.  I think this is why I have become somewhat of a hermit and now have my own business....but even with the business, I do have to present a certain image; one that I like to work.  Truth be told, I do sometimes, and I don't sometimes....so does that make one a hypocrite just because they are trying to make the best of a situation?  In some ways, I suppose.  If we were to all let it just hang out, all of the time....well....that might get messy!  I suppose we can call this "being civilized?"  

Back to the religious point of this discussion.  I think one of the most difficult things for a person of faith to do is to integrate their belief system into their outer life; that's why they call it an inner life and an outer life, maybe.

When I lived in Indonesia, where probably 98% of the overpopulated islands are moslem, I discovered that most of the impoverished people are sort of "pagan" because of lack of education.  In the cities, the masjid's (mosques) help to educate in their own ways with calls to prayers and all, but out in the jungles, mountains, remote islands, etc., there aren't as many masjid's and those are the masses who are still very superstitious.  Superstition should not be confused in any way with facade...it is real for these folks.  So isn't religion a bit like that in some ways?  The Indonesian government when I lived there required everyone to register their religion.  Now is that a facade....or is that fear?  

When my husband and I visited Cancun for our honeymoon years ago, our tour guide told us that the natives still living near the ruins were both Catholic and pagan.  When we raised our eyebrows, she said that they were very superstitutous and just didn't want to get it wrong, so they adopted both forms of "worship and ritual."

Here in the Bible Belt of Texas, I think there are many who wear their facades for the same reasons ultimately....whether it is to preserve their jobs, or whatever.  There are some devout believers I am sure and I, by no means, intend any disrespect to those -- to seek is to find.  I have no real answer for you, Professor, just couldn't help but throw this in.  
Copperbell
Senior Member
since 11-08-2003
Posts 952


8 posted 07-30-2004 12:05 PM       View Profile for Copperbell   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Copperbell

Being a 'religious' person, I can say that for myself, what I believe is the core of me.  It is not an external thing, but rather something that changes me from within. What I present to the public is the person who I am to whatever degree I'm not afraid to reveal - I struggle with being shy.  There are many times I silently disagree with people.  I don't like calling myself a religious person, but people understand what that term means. If I used it to hide who I am, it would be like paint.  Rather it is like food; I have changed and grown because of it deep within my person.

My two cents
iliana
Member Patricius
since 12-05-2003
Posts 13488
USA


9 posted 07-31-2004 05:44 PM       View Profile for iliana   Email iliana   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for iliana

Copperbell, can't dispute that that's the way it should happen.  
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> Philosophy 101 >> What Facade? Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors