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Passions in Poetry

Is Disease Given to Us by God?

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Christopher
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25 posted 02-25-2002 05:40 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

actually, my point was a somewhat sarcastic way of pointing out the stretch of an earlier statement implying that all disease stems from a single action. far from 'equal and opposite,' eh? it just seems a long shot that someone would have that bad of a temper, or a lesson would be required to be so strenuous and time insensitive. seems to me that if we don't even retain genetic memories of a time when we once inhabited the fabled eden, then any stigma still attached to actions from that time would have ceased to be meaningful as soon as the connection between action and consequence was lost. basically: just doesn't make sense.
quote:
How many other myths must be destroy before we learn the truth of God?
What if God's the myth?
serenity blaze
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26 posted 02-25-2002 05:49 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

I'd like to add that please don't mistake my persistance as anger. I tend to ask the question until I understand the answer. Nobody's fault but mine.
Silver Streak
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27 posted 02-25-2002 06:50 PM       View Profile for Silver Streak   Email Silver Streak   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Silver Streak's Home Page   View IP for Silver Streak

Alicat,

"I'm a bit confused by the religious rhetoric stemming from a simple question..but I'm easily confused. Are you telling me that the bacteria which causes colds is a beneficient and necessary mechanism for purifying the physical and spiritual selves? In what way? When I catch a cold, usually from some helpful person sneezing all over me, the only possible benefit I could see is the appreciation of life without a cold. If I look at another event objectively using this rationalistic logic, my paternal great-grandparents were spiritually made whole rather quickly: they died of measles shortly after arriving in the U.S.; they were in their young 30's. So too would be the young college student who contracts bacterial menengitis while living in an on-campus dormitory. Good thing I was born with bronchitis...in this life, I've been perfecting my spirit since birth. "

First I believe that we must realize that we are not the center of gravity, here. So trying to base all of our thinking on how it affects us and our own reference individual being, personally, in the context of our fleshly bodies, and five senses, may indeed invite mass confusion.  So I believe that we must use our imagination to extend our perception to our sixth and seventh senses, the sense of intuition (like women's intuition) and God-sense, the sense that we lock in to when we invite God's Holy Spirit into our spirits. And here, our individual selves disappear and God becomes the center of gravity. And God teaches as us we seek wisdom. The Gifts of Tongues, Interpretation, Knowledg, Wisdom and Healing are promised by Christ as the Comforter.

Now, the way I that I sense God, a Spirit, is as a tree of spirit life, permeating the heavens and earth, in a spectrum of frequencies, like TV and radio waves. And I believe that all time and space concentrate in one point in this God space, and all of life is but projecting mirrors of light, shining into and through mass containers, we call bodies.. Further, the perceptions that we sense and think of are but shadowed, images amplified and filtered through our senses. And disease is mere dirty spots on our window panes. But in the resolution we perceive intense pain and suffering.

And God did not dirty our mirrors. We did. And in our physical domain perception, our spirits suffer from a sensory nightmare of our own making. And as our spirits join in birth creating new collections of dirty mirrors quickly taught selfish deception and impurity, and on and on our self created pain and misery grow.          

Now to bring this down to earth. All life is integrated into one nourishing and self-policing body which self governs itself for the good of the whole life body. As in our human bodies, imperfect cells are eventually arrested and killed, in order to protect the life of the whole. And when impurities blocking normal cell functioning are detected by the whole nervous system, life preservation mechanisms seek to destroy them in order to protect the life of the whole organism.  I believe that when God created life that such a process was put into action to sustain all physical life in humans, animals and plants. And spirits with free will play damages, and the physical life machine is damaged, it corrects and rejuvenates into the pure body that was meant to be.  Silver.

Note that this post is not meant to be perceived as 'angry' or antagonistic, but confused. I realize anger and confusion are close cousins."

Yes, of course. I completely understand.  Silver.

Sharing God's Love through perfectlovepoetry.com

Copyright: 2002 Newell Elsworth Usher

Silver Streak
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28 posted 02-25-2002 06:52 PM       View Profile for Silver Streak   Email Silver Streak   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Silver Streak's Home Page   View IP for Silver Streak

Brad, you're right. I forgot about that. Gee! that's wonderful. Read Genesis and come on back. Silver.

Sharing God's Love through perfectlovepoetry.com

Copyright: 2002 Newell Elsworth Usher

Silver Streak
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29 posted 02-25-2002 07:02 PM       View Profile for Silver Streak   Email Silver Streak   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Silver Streak's Home Page   View IP for Silver Streak

Christopher,

"Actually, my point was a somewhat sarcastic way of pointing out the stretch of an earlier statement implying that all disease stems from a single action. far from 'equal and opposite,' eh? it just seems a long shot that someone would have that bad of a temper, or a lesson would be required to be so strenuous and time insensitive. seems to me that if we don't even retain genetic memories of a time when we once inhabited the fabled Eden, then any stigma still attached to actions from that time would have ceased to be meaningful as soon as the connection between action and consequence was lost. Basically: just doesn't make sense. "

First it has nothing to do with God's Temper. All life and truth are simply integrated reality. And all I try to do is search for Truth. I believe that all of the reality, I call God, is centered around Light, Love and Purity, all totally integrated into a marvelous perfect Creation. And I believe that my best hope for eternity is to serve this God with all of my Heart, Mind and Soul. I am convinced that my greatest pleasure and joy are rewards from investing all of my essence into these beliefs. Simply: Light, Love, and Purity are God's Creation. " Silver

What if God's the myth?

It doesn't really matter then does it? Silver.

Sharing God's Love through perfectlovepoetry.com

Copyright: 2002 Newell Elsworth Usher

Brad
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30 posted 02-25-2002 07:04 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Okay, let's get down to brass tacks.

The introduction of small pox to the Americas.

Most likely, over ninety percent of the indigenous population were decimated by the desease.

The priests, conquistadores, and colonists, saw this as the will of God and decided to help.

They gave infested blankets to Indian tribes.

Thus, we have one of the first recorded cases of biological warfare.

The point is not whether this is God's Will or that God allowed this to happen, the point is to what extent docrines such as this help to rationalize the horrors that man, not God, can accomplish.

Brad

Silver Streak
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31 posted 02-25-2002 07:05 PM       View Profile for Silver Streak   Email Silver Streak   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Silver Streak's Home Page   View IP for Silver Streak

Karen, I understand your frustration. I could never ever be angry with anyone who searches so intensely for the truth as you do. Please never stop searching. I just regret that I have a difficult time putting my ideas into the sharp focus you requrie. Please be patient with me. Newell.

Sharing God's Love through perfectlovepoetry.com

Copyright: 2002 Newell Elsworth Usher

[This message has been edited by Silver Streak (02-25-2002 08:26 PM).]

Silver Streak
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32 posted 02-25-2002 07:22 PM       View Profile for Silver Streak   Email Silver Streak   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Silver Streak's Home Page   View IP for Silver Streak

Brad,

You raise a very interesting point.

It is my belief that more harm has been done by doctrine, churches and men of cloth than all of the warriors of history. When men try to rule others telling their flocks that they are the only ones to have the answers and everyone else should follow their doctrine. They are not servants of God; they are tyrants of bondage.

Christ did not control anyone. He only taught love.

What did Christ have to say about the religious teachers of His time?

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Among other things.

Today, I believe that formal religion is still the biggest enemy to God's Children and a huge hinderance of truth. Silver.

Sharing God's Love through perfectlovepoetry.com

Copyright: 2002 Newell Elsworth Usher

[This message has been edited by Silver Streak (02-25-2002 07:26 PM).]

Christopher
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33 posted 02-25-2002 07:38 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

quote:
is centered around Light, Love and Purity, all totally integrated into a marvelous perfect Creation.


if (and i know we've heard this discussion before) creation is perfect, then how can you have disease? one step farther - if creation is perfect, then how can man have erred in the first place, being part of that perfect creation, and therefore perfect himeslf?

unless disease and fallibility are considered a part of perfection (and if that's the case, then how do we maintain the ideal that they are the antithesis of such?). then, there can be no such thing as a need for purification since by definition, disease and uncleanliness would then be a part of that perfection.
quote:
Christ did not control anyone. He only taught love.
Not in my bible - in mine, he also taught pain, fear, suffering, martyrdom... on and on. just because the words don't come from your mouth (which they did if you look at the very quote you followed the above statement with) it still doesn't mean people don't follow your actions. rebellion, discontent, disobedience - christ taught all these things... in the name of a higher power, of course... but most of the famous 'prophets' throughout history have done the same thing.

quote:
The point is not whether this is God's Will or that God allowed this to happen, the point is to what extent docrines such as this help to rationalize the horrors that man, not God, can accomplish
once again brad, you're good about driving to the heart of something... lol. and... i think you nailed it in one - doctrines of rationalization. a method by which to alleviate guilt, proclaim superiority, seize power, waz holy... whatever - the key is the rationialization, not the justification. if you proscribe that which sits athwart your own tendencies/beliefs/philoshophies, then they cannot be wrong.


Poet deVine
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34 posted 02-25-2002 07:45 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Please understand that I am neither a scholar nor a religious zealot so I have to ‘bring this to my level’ of understanding. I mean NO disrespect but want to fashion some kind of analogy that may make this easier to understand (and interject some humor that may lighten things up in here!). Thank you (by the way, the way I’m going to write this is exactly the way I speak - with side references – you’ll see them).

We are God.
Let’s imagine that God is a balloon filled with sand –

Christopher, stop snickering! Serenity – don’t look at me you’ll make me laugh!

Ok…here we are AS God (balloon babies if you will) and the shape is perfectly round. But, as Silver Streak said, the ‘original sin’ created a body (sand particle) that becomes imperfect and dies, each one of the balloon babies must shift and make room for the imperfections. When that happens a small ‘bump’ (baby balloon bump – stop laughing Chris ) occurs.

To retain the ‘perfection’ of the round balloon, God has given us disease – we’ll imagine this as a tiny pinprick hole in the balloon. Thus the offending sand (and balloon babies) leaves perfectly round balloon and thus evens it out and voila!

It’s round again – until the next time.

You may want to read this, I found it in my search for answers to the question I asked.

http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/q0109/page4.html

And since we are speaking of what we believe, I believe God did not create disease as a punishment for Adam. Eden was perfect, but there were other places God created that were less than perfect. Banishment from Eden was the punishment and in being banished from Eden, Adam and Eve had to suffer the less perfect life. Eating food that contained bacteria, living with water that was contaminated by animal waste, etc. And this, I think was the beginning of disease.

And if God didn’t want us to have disease (or bacteria or TseTse flies or germs) he would have made sure there were none on the Ark with Noah!

Thank you for listening to a humble poet’s rant.
Silver Streak
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35 posted 02-25-2002 08:12 PM       View Profile for Silver Streak   Email Silver Streak   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Silver Streak's Home Page   View IP for Silver Streak

Christopher,

"if (and i know we've heard this discussion before) creation is perfect, then how can you have disease? one step farther - if creation is perfect, then how can man have erred in the first place, being part of that perfect creation, and therefore perfect himeslf?

unless disease and fallibility are considered a part of perfection (and if that's the case, then how do we maintain the ideal that they are the antithesis of such?). then, there can be no such thing as a need for purification since by definition, disease and uncleanliness would then be a part of that perfection."

What is perfection? In whose eyes? According to what scale? Are we even able to define the parameters of perfection? Is perfection two dimensional or does it have depth? Is perfection even meaningful?  Or is it a simply a word that that we humans use when we give up on trying to define fault. And just say perfection so as to not have to think any more?

Frankly I don't know. But I think the question simply put is: is disease given to us by God?

And the answer put simply is that disease is a byproduct of a system Created by God.
So the next question is, Well, is it a gift? And of course we humans think that a gift should be something we want. But every Christmas I get gifts that I don't want and don't know what to do with.

Is it possible that God gave us this gift of disease that we simply don't understand and don't know what to do with?

Could its purpose simply be to teach us the use the minds and hearts given us in Love to comfort the sick and find ways to cure the disease and heal the sick. Is that the purpose of God's gift of disease? I dunno, Just asking. Silver.

quote:

Christ did not control anyone. He only taught love.

"Not in my bible - in mine, he also taught pain, fear, suffering, martyrdom... on and on. just because the words don't come from your mouth (which they did if you look at the very quote you followed the above statement with) it still doesn't mean people don't follow your actions. rebellion, discontent, disobedience - christ taught all these things... in the name of a higher power, of course... but most of the famous 'prophets' throughout history have done the same thing."

Did he encourage men to create bondage? Or simply reveal truths about reality. I read His Words as simply teaching love in the context of reality. Silver  

Sharing God's Love through perfectlovepoetry.com

Copyright: 2002 Newell Elsworth Usher

[This message has been edited by Silver Streak (02-25-2002 08:49 PM).]

Silver Streak
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36 posted 02-25-2002 08:22 PM       View Profile for Silver Streak   Email Silver Streak   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Silver Streak's Home Page   View IP for Silver Streak

Poet deVine,

What a wonderful explanation of your research. I think that this exercise was well worth the effort if only to get a few people thinking and searching for a bit of truth. And I am delighted and amazed at how wonderfully each of the participants contributed. And I applaud each and every one of you. Please do not think that I am a religious zealot. I am only a little truth seeker like each of you, dedicating my life to Love as I understand it. And my definition of God is simply Love. In fact I often interchange the words.

Again thank you from the bottom of my heart. I love each and every one of you. Now I must go and write a poem. LOL...

Love,

Newell
Silver Streak

Sharing God's Love through perfectlovepoetry.com

Copyright: 2002 Newell Elsworth Usher

[This message has been edited by Silver Streak (02-25-2002 08:50 PM).]

serenity blaze
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37 posted 02-25-2002 08:29 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Shar? okay, I confess that at first I laughed, but after re-reading, I think the balloon filled with sand is an apt analogy.

I will get back to you on the rest, as it will take some time to read all of the links and to all? I find this fascinating, and I'm enjoying it much!
Christopher
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38 posted 02-25-2002 08:35 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

oh. ok - maybe i misunderstood. thought this was philosophy, not belief. LOL

have fun

Christopher (sharon - i couldn't help it... i was a bad boy...)
jenni
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39 posted 02-26-2002 12:55 AM       View Profile for jenni   Email jenni   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jenni

newel--

all of the texts i've read lead to another conclusion, and if you follow the inescapable logic summarized here, i think you will come to agree.

each and every one of us, all of the varieties of what we know as life -- humans, dogs, cats, horses, trees, flowers, lichen, fungus, bacteria, everything that we think of as living things -- are merely the living cells of a giant tortoise.  

patience, please...hear me out.  follow the logic.  just as we are composed of a myriad of cells, each performing its own independent function yet combining to form a body that is much more than the sum of its parts, so, too, do our bodies, in turn, each and every one of us, in conjunction with all other living things, form the tissue, marrow, blood, flesh, and yes, the shell, of a single, giant tortoise.  

disease is but the process of the tortoise's natural cell decay, a by-product, if you will, of tortoise biology.  millions (if not even billions) of cells die each day... but that's simply life in the big tortoise.  it's nothing personal; the giant tortoise does not know or even care, much as we give absolutely no thought to the millions (if not even billions) of skin cells we kill each day even in rather mundane activities such as, say, typing on a keyboard.  the tortoise creates new cells each day, and sloughs off others.  that is simply the way it is, it is the Law of the Universe (the universe which is, btw, coextensive with the giant tortoise... there is nothing, absolutely nothing, not even a VOID, outside of the single giant tortoise).  (don't let the absence of other tortoises, or even the "absence of a void" thing throw you; i could explain, but it would take up too much time, it's rather complicated.)  

written texts -- or, rather, i should say, scriptures -- confirm this.  while i am no scholar of languages, allow me to cite these passages:

1.  "yea, be it not known among you, that each and every one of us, all of the varieties of what we knoweth as life -- yea, even to the least sparrow in the field -- are but the living constitutive matter [most giant tortoise scholars here agree this translates as "cells"] of a ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~." [the texts do not use the words "giant tortoise," and use instead the " ~ " symbol to represent the letters forming the words "giant tortoise".]

2.  "sayeth not that we are not cells of a ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~, for verily we are."

3.  "that whych wee knoeth as death and black foul disease is ought but ye bye-product of ye biologie of a harde-shelled creature, the same the formeth our Worlde."

obviously, the third quote there is from a much older source than the others.  there are more passages; i could go on, but i think that pretty well proves the matter.  

the simple answer to the question "Is Disease Given to Us by God?", then, is, of course:

no.

don't you agree?

jenni
(p.s.:  ok... obviously this was tongue in cheek here, please don't be offended... just trying to have a little fun with it, that's all.  but in your search for "truth", newell, maybe you could compare your logic with that presented here?  if you doubt the existence of the texts i quoted, i can email them to you.)

(p.s.s.:  please believe me... no offense intended!)
serenity blaze
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40 posted 02-26-2002 04:45 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Okay, lemme see if I've got this straight--we've got hot stoves, and sand-filled balloons, complete with little baby balloons, a giant tortoise, and all of this is moderated by a guy who once asked people to think of him as a pink bunny--not sure if this is Philosophy or the Detox ward!

Now if you'll excuse me, I believe Nurse Ratchett just announced "medication time" over the p.a.!

(serenity exits, muttering "they said to go to philosophy, you'll learn how to think clearly there...") HMMMM....

Thanks for the fun, good people!
Opeth
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41 posted 02-26-2002 08:57 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

The whole original sin belief is ludicrous. Let's see, if that is the case, if someone from my family kills someone, then everyone in the family is guilty - for the entire generations to come.

Did God give diseases?

Is there a God? Well, suppose that there is a God...then He/She could give us humans diseases, or then maybe He/She wouldn't want to do that. One would have to ask this question directly to the Creater Herself.

Silver Streak
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42 posted 02-26-2002 09:06 AM       View Profile for Silver Streak   Email Silver Streak   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Silver Streak's Home Page   View IP for Silver Streak

jenni,

Wow! This gets better and better. I've always wondered why when I was a kid I thought of myself as a giant tortoise. I collected the little ones crossing the road and stole vegetables from neighbor gardens to feed them. Then when I discovered that I had a sister twenty one years younger than me, a couple years ago, lo and behold, she felt the same way as a child, collecting the little guys and taking loving care of them and we have been sending each other turtles ever since. We now call ourselves two turtles. And she rides on my back. LOL...(I believe that tortises only live on land) but the idea I believe is the same, with the metaphor, tortoise, coming from the long life of tortoises.

I understand your "metaphor" completely and see no descrepancies at all with my beliefs. I might only say that as I try to clean my windows and mirrors to the same God, I do find much joy in the intense warmth that I receive from the presense of this awesome God. And I am assured that the Worship Template is irrelevant. That our calling is to Love God with all of our hearts, minds and souls, which is what I try to do. And secondly as Christ is in me, Whom I describe as God's Spirit of Love, I try to Love everyone else as I love myself. And so I feel like a huge Tortoise, (God in me) just Loving everyone, (especially ladies, that I believe are God's Chosen Jewels). And wheeee! It's wonderful! Life gets better and better and better. And I could write volumes and volumes about the goodness of it spiritually and physically.

I find the secret of it is just to give everything over to God with repentance, burn all guilt, blame and shame, totally releasing all cares, and trying to use true knowledge with understanding abandoning all beliefs in the bondage of man's rules, for all of my thinking. And with these thoughts, I simply act with the best judgement that I can muster. And I do feel that God has called me to spread this Word to others about This Wonderful Love and Joy That is given Free from Our Living God and The Son, The Spirit of Love, The Christ.

And I fully agree that all disease is just part of God's Way, which to be honest, I don't think any of us understand, fully. As you say, we are each just a cell in a big body (tortoise).

So yes, Jennie, I love your explanation. And it sure is a lot easier to understand than my attempt at Spiriutal Physics. And I believe that we are both right. And I also believe for any who disagree, that it is only what is in a heart that counts, not a chosen Worship Template, whether Christianity, Jew ,Muslim, Hindi, Wiccan, or other, or any of the thousands of branches, thereof. It matters not. You are free to Love God in any way you choose! And only God is your judge and all belief systems are transparent to God as God sees no wrongs, whatsoever, but in The Big Tortoise we are but a cell that will keep and eliminate all disease and impurities in God's Way, to ensure God's Perfect Health, both physically and Spiritually, forever. So let us all just begin to Love and Love and Love and enjoy all of the spiritual and physical blessings bestowed upon us and share them with all God's Children. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee! Come with me! Let's Party!
Newell

Sharing God's Love through perfectlovepoetry.com

Copyright: 2002 Newell Elsworth Usher

Silver Streak
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43 posted 02-26-2002 09:09 AM       View Profile for Silver Streak   Email Silver Streak   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Silver Streak's Home Page   View IP for Silver Streak

Opeth, we are all free to believe as we choose and like everything else in life, we all will receive whatever consequences our destiny holds. Thanks for your remarks.
-Silver

Sharing God's Love through perfectlovepoetry.com

Copyright: 2002 Newell Elsworth Usher

Silver Streak
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44 posted 02-26-2002 09:11 AM       View Profile for Silver Streak   Email Silver Streak   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Silver Streak's Home Page   View IP for Silver Streak

Serenity,

does Nurse Ratchett have any extra pills. I think I need a sedative. Ahhhhh!
-newell

Sharing God's Love through perfectlovepoetry.com

Copyright: 2002 Newell Elsworth Usher

Interloper
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45 posted 02-26-2002 01:52 PM       View Profile for Interloper   Email Interloper   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Interloper

Christopher,
You said "What if God's the myth?"

I ask, what if God is not a myth?

Are you willing to wager eternity on the answer?  I guess you have a 50/50 chance if you do not believe in God.

Brad,

You said,

"Okay, let's get down to brass tacks.

The introduction of small pox to the Americas.

Most likely, over ninety percent of the indigenous population were decimated by the desease.

The priests, conquistadores, and colonists, saw this as the will of God and decided to help.

They gave infested blankets to Indian tribes.

Thus, we have one of the first recorded cases of biological warfare.

The point is not whether this is God's Will or that God allowed this to happen, the point is to what extent docrines such as this help to rationalize the horrors that man, not God, can accomplish."

God did not introduce smallpox to the Americas, man did.

You say 90% were decimated.  Lemme see, that means 10% were not touched by the disease and 10% of the 90% died.  That breaks down to 9% dying of smallpox introduced by man.

[This message has been edited by Interloper (02-26-2002 02:04 PM).]

Brad
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46 posted 02-26-2002 03:20 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Hmmmm, was I not clear?

"God did not introduce smallpox to the Americas, man did."

--Yes, of course. In the beginning, it was an unintended consequence of exploration and invasion.  

"You say 90% were decimated.  Lemme see, that means 10% were not touched by the disease and 10% of the 90% died.  That breaks down to 9% dying of smallpox introduced by man."

--Hmmmm, perhaps I used the wrong word, but the point was that up to 90% of the indigenous population died (I don't think the statistics are that reliable here which is why I said most likely).  I don't understand your breakdown here. All of it was caused by man, some of it was intended, some of it was unintended.  

--I don't know how to breakdown that distinction because we're still relying on a small sample of written documents. People still makes guesses though.

--The point was not to blame God for anything here but the uses to which doctrine is used. For some of you, purity is a good thing, but when I hear it, I hear ethnic cleansing, blood and soil, the Cultural Revolution, the Inquisition, the Counter-Reformation, the Thirty years war, etc.

--god (the idea) has very little to do with many of these issues. Purity does.

--God (the being) is sometimes invoked but that neither proves nor disproves his/her existence.  

Brad
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47 posted 02-26-2002 04:29 PM       View Profile for rosepetals25   Email rosepetals25   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rosepetals25

Ok.. I am wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy lost in this whole topic, so I'm not going to post a long big post.  I'm just going to simply say I don't think disease is God's way of purifying our species or population.  

Tara
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48 posted 02-26-2002 05:12 PM       View Profile for Interloper   Email Interloper   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Interloper

Brad,

I think this has gotten way beyond Poet Devine's base question.

"Is disease given to us by God?"

The answer is yes, and no.  Yes, disease is His "fault" since He created everything.

Does he specifically "give" someone or a race of people a disease, NO.  Like everything else He created, if you play with it one can take something good and make it bad.  One can take elements that, by themselves, are relatively harmless.  One can combine those elements and create Mustard Gas, weapons grade Anthrax, etc., etc., ad infinitum.

[This message has been edited by Interloper (02-27-2002 04:23 PM).]

Brad
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49 posted 02-26-2002 07:29 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

But the implied question is why did God do this?

And the answer seems to be purification.

A kind of strengthening mechanism to return us to 'spirit' or at least make us see 'spirit'.

My point is that this reasoning gets people killed.

But fair enough, I did attempt to show that this reasoning is used in contexts and political situations where Christianity is not an issue.

That it is not limited to Christianity.

Sorry Sharon.

Brad
 
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