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Passions in Poetry

What aspect of discrimination in society most concerns you?

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Brad
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since 08-20-99
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Jejudo, South Korea


25 posted 02-04-2002 09:28 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Ron,

Perhaps I'm exploiting that gap, the gap between descrimination as such and prejudicial descrimination, but I think everyone else is doing the same thing.

I don't know how to close it.

When I can find the time and energy, I'll try to work through this a little more seriously.

But then I'll blame it on you.

Brad
Opeth
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since 12-13-2001
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The Ravines


26 posted 02-05-2002 02:01 PM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Discrimination against the intellectually superior is the worst kind of discrimination, in my opinion.
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


27 posted 02-05-2002 05:11 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Opeth,

Could you be more specific? Anti-intellectualism is certainly an American tradition: "We don't need intellectuals, we need cowboys" or something like that.

On the other hand, Jimmy Carter, by most accounts, was a smarter man than Ronald Reagan but who had the more successful presidency?

Curious,
Brad  
hush
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since 05-27-2001
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Ohio, USA


28 posted 02-05-2002 11:05 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

I really hate the distinctions of how smart someone is. "Intellectually superior?" Please. That sounds so snotty.... perhaps people who place themselves in that classification are discriminated against because of their attitudes.

I think this thread would be much more focused if the orginial question has been posed about prejudice in particular, rather than simple discrimination. Discrimination is in no way a bad thing... I discriminate when I opt to eat salad over french fries... we are always discriminating.

Now, regarding the "racial formation" thing- I disagree. In everything I see, I notice that it isn't primarily skin color that lumps us together into different groups we make cover statements about. It is a similarity in interests and lifestyle. Depending on the stage a person is in during life, this can be any number of things: Music taste, career goals, mutual acquaintences, hobbies, leisure activities, sports, etc. A lot of teens hang out with people who have similar taste in music; a lot of black people like rap music, and hang out together. White people, and people of other ethnicities that like the same genre of music tend to also enjoy similar lifestyles, entertainment (jokes, movies), and speech patterns (which I think is one of the biggest prejudicial standards. People ahve a tendency to listen to a person's use of words and pronounciation and make any number of assumptions about that person.) I don't think anoyone would disagree with me when I say that many, even most, African Americans have certain inclinations in speech patterns, clothing style, and mannerisms. As black culture eventually started gaining acceptance in pop culture, people of different ethnicities began conforming to some of these stereotypes, creating an entireyl new one; not that black people act in a certain manner, but that people who act in a certain manner are acting like black people.

And that is where preconceived racial prejudice comes into account. One's notions of what black people are like automatically figures in to the equation: If you like black people, you'll like this person; if not, you probably won't.

Obviously, this is very over-simplified. Nothing is black-and-white like this, and most people will give a person a chance regardless their racial/social/cultural background... however, prejudices do ahve bearing on how open-minded or forgiving of human flaws we will be with a particular individual.

That's all for now. I haven't even gotten to what bugs me the most.

"Love is a piano
dropped from a four story window
and you were in the wrong place
at the wrong time." -Ani DiFranco

rich-pa
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29 posted 02-05-2002 11:40 PM       View Profile for rich-pa   Email rich-pa   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rich-pa

hey hush, one thing you said kinda bothered me:

most people will give a person a chance regardless their racial/social/cultural background..

i dunno, maybe it's cause i grew up in the south but i don't see this.  racism tends to flourish around here, i wish i was in ohio where that wasn't the case, not to say all are racists becaus emany aren't but a significant portion of the population is prejudiced to some degree, blacks, asians, whites, hispanics, catholics, protestants, muslims, and so on so on with all the things people fight about...i just don't think the statement "most poeple will" can stand, i see too many that do hold things like that as a hallmark of a persons worth, so a siginificant number may, but most? i dunno

"freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose..."  -janis joplin

Opeth
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30 posted 02-06-2002 10:11 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Hush wrote,

"I think this thread would be much more focused if the orginial question has been posed about prejudice in particular, rather than simple discrimination. Discrimination is in no way a bad thing... I discriminate when I opt to eat salad over french fries... we are always discriminating."


- There is no law banning prejudices, however discrimination (in which Hush used out of context for this topic matter) is against the law.

example

A local bank president thinks...

Prejucice = I think that black people are stupid and untrustworthy.

No law against that, however...

Discrimination = I did not hire that applicant because she is black.

Now that action is against the law.

[This message has been edited by Opeth (02-06-2002 12:43 PM).]

hush
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Ohio, USA


31 posted 02-06-2002 04:15 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Well, what I meant was a discrimination made on a prejudicial basis. Hopefully that's mroe clear.

Rich-pa, I may be wrong... but I have never met someone who flat-out refuses to talk to someone based on ethnicity... sometimes the chance they give someone isn't a fair one (Okay, I'll give this person a chance to prove he isn't like other black epople) but it's usually there.

"Love is a piano
dropped from a four story window
and you were in the wrong place
at the wrong time." -Ani DiFranco

Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


32 posted 02-06-2002 04:27 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

*sigh*

It seems Ron's point is more pertinent than I thought.

Hush's distinction is not invalid, we say, "She has a discriminating taste" all the time and there's no law against that.

We're all looking at it from a slightly different viewpoint and it's just getting more garbled and confused. I still want to know, following your definition of discrimination, what you, Opeth, mean by discriminating against the intellectually superior.

Is there prejudice against those who follow intellectual pursuits? Sure.

Is there discrimination?

Maybe in high school, but that's a tricky one as well.

I don't know.
Opeth
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since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


33 posted 02-11-2002 11:09 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth


"I still want to know, following your definition of discrimination, what you, Opeth, mean by discriminating against the intellectually superior."


- Brad, I am not ignoring your question. However, since my answer may be controversial and of the minority, I believe that of this time, I should keep my opinion to myself, lest I receive a called third strike.
Alicat
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since 05-23-99
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Coastal Texas


34 posted 02-11-2002 12:17 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, I know this notion is a bit past its sell-date, but I still see it happening, though not as commonly: reverse discriminatory hiring practices. This was very big in the 80's and early 90's. I've been on the receiving end more often than I really care for, though it's so hard to prove unless the statement is blatant, direct, and to you personally.

For instance: I tried getting work with a temp agency back in Texas. Male positions were all manual labor in the sun, female positions were all indoors with light lifting. I was tired of working outside, so applied for inside work. Blew away the typing, data-entry, Access, WordPerfect, Word tests...and was hired, pending placement. Then they tell me I falsified my application and fired me, with no hope of rehire. I found out later the problem was with employment history. One job gave me a 'bad' flag, which turned out to be grounds for dismissal. I contested and complained, but to no avail...it wasn't something I could prove in court.
Moon Dust
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since 06-11-99
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Skelmersdale, UK


35 posted 02-14-2002 09:53 PM       View Profile for Moon Dust   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Moon Dust

the way people treat or rather have a fixed view for people with disabilty mentel or physical. They look at their disabilty and think of a list of things they can't do I look at them and think they are the bravest people in the world who do things like wheelchair racing and swimming without the use of their legs. They could be stone deaf or blind and still work. The fact that they are refused to something in which they themselves think that they can do if they put their minds to it. The fact that people feel a need to help them when they can clearly help themselves. People who talk to them as if they are stupid when theres nothing wrong with their minds.

Also I am totally against the discrimation based on the way people look. I not talking about racism or the colour of skin although they could have some part in it. I hate to think that someone could go though life deviding up people beween beauty and uglyiness just because they dislike thier faces or like their bodies. Now i'm confindent in the way I look but I anit no model and I anit what some people might precive to be a freak. But I can't understand why do some people look at someone good looking and see the sun shines out of their.... (put any word you seem fit mine anit worth mentioning.) Why do people do that when that good looking person has or seems to have no personality at all when there could be someone who anit so nice but a great personalty. Thats discrimination to me.

Write what you feel, feel what you wrtie.

Opeth
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since 12-13-2001
Posts 2224
The Ravines


36 posted 02-15-2002 11:10 AM       View Profile for Opeth   Email Opeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Opeth

Moon Dust...because,

"It's nice to be nice to the nice."

- Frank Burns .

JBaker515
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Dartmouth College


37 posted 02-15-2002 10:57 PM       View Profile for JBaker515   Email JBaker515   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JBaker515

lol@Opeth.
 
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