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Passions in Poetry

Define IZ

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NaughtyAngel
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since 01-09-2002
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0 posted 01-09-2002 04:19 PM       View Profile for NaughtyAngel   Email NaughtyAngel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for NaughtyAngel


Define the
IS
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


1 posted 01-09-2002 04:43 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

It's unclear what you're asking here.

Perhaps, but only perhaps, the more correct question is 'what does it mean to be' or 'what is it to be'?

Aristotle and Heideggar are good places for that one.

Or, are you asking a grammar question?

Thanks,
Brad
Jamie
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since 06-26-2000
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2 posted 01-09-2002 05:02 PM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

Richard Bach used that particular word to describe life when he said, "Life Is".

There is society where none intrudes, by the deep sea, and music in its roar.
byron

hush
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since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


3 posted 01-09-2002 11:40 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

is (z)
v.
Third person singular present indicative of be.

be (b)
v. First and third person singular past indicative was, (wz, wz; wz when unstressed)second person singular and plural and first and third person plural past indicative were, (wûr)past subjunctive were,past participle been, (bn)present participle be·ing, (bng)first person singular present indicative am, (m)second person singular and plural and first and third person plural present indicative are, (är)third person singular present indicative is, (z)present subjunctive be
v. intr.
To exist in actuality; have life or reality: I think, therefore I am.

To occupy a specified position: The food is on the table.
To remain in a certain state or situation undisturbed, untouched, or unmolested: Let the children be.
To take place; occur: The test was yesterday.
To go or come: Have you ever been to Italy? Have you been home recently?
Used as a copula in such senses as:
To equal in identity: “To be a Christian was to be a Roman” (James Bryce).
To have a specified significance: A is excellent, C is passing. Let n be the unknown quantity.
To belong to a specified class or group: The human being is a primate.
To have or show a specified quality or characteristic: She is witty. All humans are mortal.
To seem to consist or be made of: The yard is all snow. He is all bluff and no bite.
To belong; befall: Peace be unto you. Woe is me.

-Dictionary.com

"I'm thinking about leaving tomorrow
I'm thinking about being on my own
I think I been wasting my time
I'm thinking about getting out"

rich-pa
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since 02-07-2000
Posts 325
New Orleans, Louisiana


4 posted 01-12-2002 12:44 AM       View Profile for rich-pa   Email rich-pa   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for rich-pa

hey hush, the dictionary defintion is all good, but one little problem, what does all that that you looked up mean?  she asked to define (or for the signified of) IS but you didn't get heer the signified, you just gave awhole nother list of signfiers...what does all that mean (or signify)?  sorry, had to throw that in there...just been thinking of deconstruction too much

"freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose..."  -janis joplin

Brad
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since 08-20-99
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Jejudo, South Korea


5 posted 01-12-2002 09:10 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Ah, but there's nothing outside the text.

It's signifiers all the way down.

Shou-Lao
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since 10-12-2001
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6 posted 01-13-2002 07:00 AM       View Profile for Shou-Lao   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Shou-Lao


Everything
Jamie
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since 06-26-2000
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7 posted 01-13-2002 07:50 AM       View Profile for Jamie   Email Jamie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Jamie's Home Page   View IP for Jamie

and nothing
hush
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since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


8 posted 01-13-2002 11:30 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Okay.... "Is" is a form of "be". So what does it mean to be? To think? I think, therefore I am?

I think that "is" is one of those words that we always use, and we know what it means even if we can't acurrately give it a solid, concrete definition. I think the one Dictionary.com had to offer is just as clear as any other.

We could say the the state of "being" is "subjective" and therefore a different experience for everyone who "is," but that leaves us even more confused, and in desperate need of something to clear up the abstractions. The word "is" becomes obscure-

"The dog is brown."

"I perceive the dog to be brown."

Is the dog really brown? What if the dog bit a child and the police need a description of it so as to catch it? Would you say "it was a brown dog" or "It appeared to be brown?" Is it wrong to assum that because you see the dog as brown, others will too?

In the world of philosophy and convoluted language that accounts for all the "what-ifs" associated with words, this kind of dissection might be kind of interesting. I think in the real world, it's irrelevent though, at least this particular word, because it's so universal. There are just some things we assume are perceived the same way by everyone- "The dog is brown," "It's raining outside," "The ground is hard," etc. Saying "The ground feels hard to me" doesn't change the fact that pretty much everyone will agree, so what's the point? I'm sure there is one... in the world of a debate forum... but when I fall off my front porch, I'm not going to be worrying about the true meaning of "is" and the eprceptions about the ground that other people have. The ground is hard, and falling on it hurts. In my mind, that's a fact.

"I'm thinking about leaving tomorrow
I'm thinking about being on my own
I think I been wasting my time
I'm thinking about getting out"

Shou-Lao
Member
since 10-12-2001
Posts 101


9 posted 01-13-2002 03:38 PM       View Profile for Shou-Lao   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Shou-Lao

I think, therefore I am

Cogito ergo sum.

This could unfortunately be a red herring, Descartes quote was the foundation idea on which to build his philosophical theory after stripping previous philosophical thought back to the one empirical truth he could be sure of (or as sure as is reasonably possible).

His logic goes something like this:

Doubt everything and the only things that can be proved to exist are doubt itself and the instigator of that doubt.

His statement doesn’t help us to understand IS or ‘what it means to be’ beyond the recognition of self-existence due to thought in man, the ground still IS despite its apparent inability to think.

If the question is grammatical in nature Hush seems to have covered the salient points, if it’s a question regarding the descriptive validity of an object or the objects actual existence Descartes does offer a solution based upon his principals of hyperbolic doubt.

Describing the nature of the ground, as Hush pointed out, introduces the need for an understanding and quantification of the different perceptions as to the nature of the ground dependent on the senses (secondary object). Such an understanding isn’t necessary to recognise the fundamental existence of the ground based upon mathematical observance (primary object). Based upon such measurable observations backed up by the perceived qualities Descartes would perhaps conclude:

The ground IS

To deny the existence of the ground using Descartes method would require two arguments sufficient to put into doubt both primary and secondary objects.

Hush falling off the porch proved, using this method, not only that the ground IS, but also that the ground (adjacent to the porch at least)IS hard measurable by the pain of its interaction with the human frame.

Shou

Sum ergo cogito.


[This message has been edited by Shou-Lao (01-13-2002 05:53 PM).]

Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


10 posted 01-13-2002 07:28 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

In Arabic, 'is' and 'are' aren't used in a perfectly grammatical sentence.

"The King good."

is the same as the English

"The King is good."

So, how universal is this particular word?

And how relevant to the real world?

More later,
Brad
Shou-Lao
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since 10-12-2001
Posts 101


11 posted 01-14-2002 05:29 PM       View Profile for Shou-Lao   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Shou-Lao


How relevant?

As a means of communication the word IS doesn’t seem to be that important, your example of the lack of usage in Arabic pretty much attests to that.

However I wonder if the Arabic language uses substitution in some cases:

One plus one is two
One plus one equals two
One plus one makes two

Without some usage, or at least some form of substitution, communication would seem to be, although not impossible, at least a little more difficult:

One tutu plus one tutu two tutus
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


12 posted 01-14-2002 08:44 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Isn't it the other way around? "Is" is the substitution, not "equals" or "makes".
Shou-Lao
Member
since 10-12-2001
Posts 101


13 posted 01-15-2002 03:10 PM       View Profile for Shou-Lao   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Shou-Lao


“Isn't it the other way around? "Is" is the substitution, not "equals" or "makes".”


Apparently not in the case of Arabic.

IS being the substitute in English is a very real possibility, however that just moves the focus of the question from IS to EXISTS, MAKES and EQUALS and no doubt several other words which wouldn’t get us very far.

I think the original question is causing problems, I know it is for me, I keep getting the urge to split the question into two parts:

What IS?

And

What is IS?

The first would be a question of existence, my answer to which would be - every thing.

The second would seem (it gets complicated if I don’t add the word seem ) to be a question of what the word IS is. My answer to this one would be – A very useful word with several meanings that may be used in substitution for several other words but which seems to be seldom, if at all, used in Arabic.


hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


14 posted 01-15-2002 05:32 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

"The King good."

The king what good? Is good? Does good? Looks good? Sorry, but without verbs, communication is pretty difficult.

"I'm thinking about leaving tomorrow
I'm thinking about being on my own
I think I been wasting my time
I'm thinking about getting out"

mauddib
Member
since 01-12-2002
Posts 124
melbourne australia


15 posted 01-16-2002 04:30 PM       View Profile for mauddib   Email mauddib   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for mauddib

is is everything that is is not
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