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Passions in Poetry

Something I've noticed....

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hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


0 posted 12-02-2001 11:14 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

This concern applies to the CA forum... I figured since most people who post there post here, it's a good place for it.

Something I've seen unsettles me a bit... it's when people take the liberty to re-write someone's poem for them. I mean, I guess if the author doesn't have a problem with it, then it's not really a problem or anything... it just makes me uneasy, like there's something inherently wrong about taking another person's poem and making it into what you would have written if the poem was yours... except, it isn't.

I see the obvious value in exchanging ideas and suggestions, but I think that rewriting the entire poem takes this too far. It bothers me when it's done to something I write. Am I alone?

I'm not trying to attack anyone who does this or anything... I'm just kind of curious as to whether I'm the only one who feels this way, or how people feel about it in general.. or if I'm the only one who even thinks about it... lol.

"this is not who I meant to be
this is not how I meant to feel" -Ani DiFranco

Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


1 posted 12-03-2001 07:52 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it hush -- it's just making suggestions -- after all -- the poem is still the authors -- what difference does it make if the critic makes suggestions in prose form or by example in verse?
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


2 posted 12-04-2001 07:06 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I see it as simply another way to make suggestions, I've done it as well.

Not sure what the problem could be here -- except that you still see a poem as a sacred icon or something.  

If you have time, can you elaborate a bit more?

Brad
hush
Senior Member
since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


3 posted 12-04-2001 10:40 PM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

It's not something I'm losing sleep over or anything... and no, I don't see the poem as a sacred icon. If I did, I wouldn't post my poetry for critique or offer it to others.

I guess that the way I see it is that there is a difference between suggesting a writer do something with their poem and actually taking the liberty to do it yourself. Maybe it really isn't such a big difference... but the way I see it, you can either point someone in a certain direction and let them get their themselves, or you can just put them there yourself.

Another thing is that I don't think people gain as much from having their poem rewritten for them as they would be doing all the work themselves. Let's say two people offer to different rewrites... It's still just a matter of the author selecting which additions to keep. I'm not trying to say that a writer will simply accept whatever is offered... but the parts they do accept were written by someone else- the poem becomes a combined effort.

Maybe the difference I see is that when people suggest doing something with the poem, it's suggesting what, but when they actually do it themselves, it's showing how they think it should be done, as well.

Maybe that makes more sense... maybe it doesn't. I guess it could just be one of those gut feeling things I can't explain, or only makes sense to me, and that's fine.

"this is not who I meant to be
this is not how I meant to feel" -Ani DiFranco

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


4 posted 12-04-2001 11:06 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

It makes sense to me.

"I guess that the way I see it is that there is a difference between suggesting a writer do something with their poem and actually taking the liberty to do it yourself."

--Even if this isn't what is intended, I can definitely see how it can look that way. I hadn't considered that. It's kind of like the classic father/son scenario. You ask for help in building something, and Dad ends up doing it.

"Another thing is that I don't think people gain as much from having their poem rewritten for them as they would be doing all the work themselves."

--I think you're right here. Unless it's for a specific target (meter, alliteration, rhyme scheme, what have you), I have a tendency not to study the rewritten version.

--I don't see any problem with combined efforts, but you've made some good points here.

--I knew someone else who would get upset at this approach but I never quite understood why. Now I do.

--The trick to critiqueing is not doing it for someone but trying to show people what you see. Right?

thanks,
Brad
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


5 posted 12-04-2001 11:28 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I understood the issue the first time hush... but I think there is a hair being split here that may not even exist.

The Jedi Master is not doing the aprentices work by demonstrating the use of a light sabre.

Further if I say 'try changing the word solution to brew' it is no different from showing the word changed.

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (edited 12-04-2001).]

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


6 posted 12-05-2001 02:46 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

AIN'T NOBODY GONNA REWRITE MY POEM!  

If I ask for input, however, they can write their OWN poem, perhaps closely derived from mine. Personally, I don't feel I could ever call that poem mine. At best, it's a collaboration. And, yea, that is just as true if all I do is work a good suggestion into my own version of the poem. The minute I put it up for critique, the poem became a group effort, and any subsequent change costs me sole ownership. At the very best, I've become the leader of a team, making decisions on direction.

That is NOT a bad thing. It's one cost for learning, and a pretty small cost at that. You didn't think learning was going to be free, did you?  
timothysangel1973
Deputy Moderator 5 Tours
Senior Member
since 12-03-2001
Posts 1749
Never close enough


7 posted 12-05-2001 04:27 AM       View Profile for timothysangel1973   Email timothysangel1973   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit timothysangel1973's Home Page   View IP for timothysangel1973

I agree with you Hush....
As I was reading this I remembered an assignment that I had in school once.

Our teacher wanted for each of us to write a poem about daffodils, once we were finished she gathered our papers up and distributed them to other classmates.  The assignment was to read the poem and change it as you seen fit.

Pointless to me, and I did share my thoughts with my teacher and the entire second period.  I mean really, we all wrote about the same thing, so changing someone else poetry would only be the equivalent of re-writing your own poem.

She (my teacher) said that I was insecure, and I probably spoke too soon, because I concluded in telling her that I wasn't "insecure"....I was sure.
Sure that my poem, was just fine the way that it was.

**Got detention for that, she said that I was showing disrespect and undermining her teaching ability...

I would have argued with that, but two days of detention were enough for me.

)))SMILES(((
Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


8 posted 12-05-2001 11:17 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

"The Jedi Master is not doing the aprentices work by demonstrating the use of a light sabre."

Who or what is Jedi Master?
Is this a concept like Santa Claus?
or maybe this is another discussion?
I am just confused  

Regards and have a nice day,
sudhir


Local Rebel
Member Ascendant
since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


9 posted 12-10-2001 09:56 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Santa Clause?  lol... close Sudhir...

The Jedi Master is a fabled character from the series 'Star Wars'.
Tony Di Bart
Member
since 01-26-2000
Posts 163
Toronto, Canada


10 posted 12-10-2001 10:12 PM       View Profile for Tony Di Bart   Email Tony Di Bart   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tony Di Bart

I have to agree I do not like people re-writing my poem.  I think the reason that I do not like it is for one as an "artist" and I say that liberally, we all take possesion of our creations.  Secondly, the fun part for me is actually writing something that moves and inspires others to feel, to sense, be aware of their aliveness through your words.  Suggestions are great but please do not take away my enjoyment of writing a poem by doing it for me.  

That's why I do not like people who take the liberty of re-writing my poem.  

See YA

 
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