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Passions in Poetry

Define Sin

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serenity blaze
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0 posted 11-15-2001 05:24 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Would love to hear the various interpretations.
Anybody?
Sudhir Iyer
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1 posted 11-15-2001 08:25 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

sin: sinking without king
sin: skin without k
sin: single without gle (read as girl)
sin: raisins without raise (read as raise)
sin: cousin wihout cou (read as cow)
sin: sinister without ister (read as easter)
sin: kissin without kis
...
... and so on
...
sin: a east asian pronunciation of scene
sin: part of an Indian surname (Singh => usually to signify brave)
...
...
the dictionary would say that
sin is a violation of a religious or moral law, especially when done deliberately. This is often regarded as being very shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong by the ones who think themselves to be morally correct and 'sinless'.

Other stinging trivia:
- Mythologically, Sin is the babylonian god of the moon
- It is also a letter in the Hebrew Alphabet (I'm told)
- sin: a short form of "sine" used predominantly in geometry

-----

More about sin
heard of a headache medisin called anasin

---------

well there seems to be a sin in everythin'

    

regards to you O Serene one...

Sudhir
P.S. please don't be upset about my sins committed above...

"I was born intelligent - education ruined me"

[This message has been edited by Sudhir Iyer (edited 11-15-2001).]

Irish Rose
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2 posted 11-15-2001 11:08 AM       View Profile for Irish Rose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irish Rose

my opinion  

Sin....results in the eradication of all inner peace of mind, the destruction and ruin of any form of conscience of a soul. A thought, action or word, deed, whatever that totally rips away the self-respect and value a person has or ever placed on themselves. Sin....anything that places undue pain, sorrow or suffering upon another human being. Any deliberate attempt to trash someone's heart, mind and emotions. That crummy feeling inside that just won't go away after you've done or said something and you can no longer look at yourself in the mirror. The stain around the edges of your psyche that you rub and rub but it won't come out.

Sin....an inkblot upon a page that needs to be rewritten, a blemish upon the face of someone who once smiled...

sin....every human nature has the seed within for sin...right and wrong. it's a choice whether it strangles you, grows and spreads or you pull it out by the roots and plant something beautiful.....

Kathleen
(Kay)

Stephanos
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3 posted 11-15-2001 12:11 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos



What is sin?  What can it be?
Itís something born inside of me
that works by subtlety and sway
to taint the things I do and say.
Itís secretive and luring
and it goes to reassuring
when at anytime I glimpse behind itís mask.
Itís arguments can make me feel
that after all it isnít real.
It councils me to run and never ask.

an invention out of piety?
a folktale of society?
Surely ďtheyĒ coined sin
to be but leverage for men.
Such explanations for a spell
have quietened the hounds of hell
anesthetizing every warning nerve
convincing us (at least almost)
the moral despot was a ghost
whose wages we ourselves cannot deserve.

What is sin?  a text book quote?
A creedal answer, cold and rote?
A doctrine from a dusty shelf
that I canít find inside myself?
A creature Iíve been trained to see?
or a plain and sad reality
thatís hitting home for me time and again?
Itís whatís working for my loss.
It put my savior on a cross.
That is how Iíll have to answer, 'What is sin?'


'All we like sheep have gone astray.
We have turned, every one, to his own way.
And the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.'  (Isaiah 53:6)


[This message has been edited by Stephanos (edited 11-15-2001).]

Stephanos
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4 posted 11-15-2001 04:05 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

I went back again and read Sudhir's post, and I have to say that first definition is the most insightful I have seen.  It describes perfectly my situation with sin before I turned to Christ.

sin =  sinking without king

Stephen.
serenity blaze
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5 posted 11-15-2001 05:47 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Sudhir, you are quite a philosopher. I loved reading your take on this. And sigh, I suppose I should offer something here, but please understand that this is a standard that I place only upon myself.

Sin is knowing that an act is wrong and doing it anyway. As most of you know, I practice a form of Wicca---but am known as a "solitary eclectic"---which simply means that I accept what I perceive to be truth from ANY source. (Pretty convenient, eh? grin) But I do try to follow the creed:

"As ye harm none, do what you will."

Easy to type. Tougher to live.  
Local Rebel
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6 posted 11-15-2001 06:42 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

I prefer the Hebrew outlook on sin as a state of being as opposed to acts of doing -- the human animal, being self aware, has the distinct capacity to recognize the difference between ourselves as we are -- and the selves we have the potential to be -- that chasm is 'sin' in Hebrew thought -- the recognition of this state (as the Hebrew scripture says we are 'born in') can lead us to good or to evil - specific acts against 'law' would be viewed as outgrowths of the general state of humanity.

oh.. and serenity -- blessed be

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (edited 11-15-2001).]

Brad
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7 posted 11-15-2001 09:47 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I'll probably get slapped for this but while I liked what Sudhir did, I think it's more of a poetic move than a philosophical one. Now that doesn't mean it doesn't contain insight, I just think it's still useful to distinguish between the two -- this type of association is still generally associated with poetry rather than philosophy.

And before anyone jumps on me, yes, I have read Derrida and yes he does similar things (sometimes) but part of the controversy surrounding him revolves around the very fact that he does this.

'nuff said,
Brad
serenity blaze
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8 posted 11-15-2001 10:52 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Okay Brad...serenity is studying....explain Derrida to me and could you possibly provide links to examples of what you mean? And should lines be drawn between poetry and philosophy? Seriously, I dropped Philo in college because I could never seem to get satisfactory answers--and if I'm gonna dance in circles it will be at Sabbat, smile, and I usually take the widdershins position. Does it matter what form is used to express...are there RULES to this business? sigh...'splain it to me Lucy....slowly...grin
Brad
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9 posted 11-16-2001 12:27 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Ever heard of deconstruction?

Or poststucturalism?

That's Derrida.

I don't think they're rules per se but there are conventions. Generally, we can say that philosophers deal with language in a SERIOUS way; that is, they're trying to make a point without resorting to literary devices.

Poets use language in playful (associations, puns, metaphors etc.) ways in order to say serious or playful things.

On sustained study (the kind of stuff Derrida does in topic and in style), these distinctions break down but they still have a practical value, I think.

If you go into a book store and want to read poetry, I don't think you'll be happy with Kant or Hegel, Donaldson or Searle; and if you want to read philosophy, I don't think you'll be happy if you get Byron, Coleridge, Ginsberg, or Ashbery.

But then you never know.  

Brad  
serenity blaze
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10 posted 11-16-2001 01:02 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

"But then you never know"

Had to laugh Brad. Now YOU are sounding like ME....lol...be afraid, very afraid.

and thank you, I'm liking this forum much these days.  
NapalmsConstantlyConfused
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11 posted 11-19-2001 11:53 PM       View Profile for NapalmsConstantlyConfused   Email NapalmsConstantlyConfused   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for NapalmsConstantlyConfused

sin = any application of force other than in self-defense.

-Dave
Sudhir Iyer
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12 posted 11-21-2001 12:54 PM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

I am sorry if my post caused concern. I understand that I should remain within the realms of philosophy while I answer in this forum. I would like to clarify that I meant no disrespect, whatsover, to anyone.

Everything has a place.

Regards to all,
Sudhir

[This message has been edited by Sudhir Iyer (edited 11-21-2001).]

Brad
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13 posted 11-21-2001 01:16 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Sudhir,

Huh?

Brad
Interloper
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14 posted 11-26-2001 05:08 PM       View Profile for Interloper   Email Interloper   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Interloper

Dave,
What about the defense of another or the defenseless?
NapalmsConstantlyConfused
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15 posted 11-27-2001 06:38 PM       View Profile for NapalmsConstantlyConfused   Email NapalmsConstantlyConfused   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for NapalmsConstantlyConfused

interloper - good point.
defending the defenseless = what? define "defenseless." there's no-one who is "defenseless," just those who either choose not to defend themselves, or those whose defense isn't very effective.
but i agree with you there - under highly limited circumstances, defending someone else is ok, if the defense is against one who is an unprovoked aggressor.
if the aggressor was legitimately provoked, though, i'm tempted to say "you get what you pay for" to the whiny victim afterwards.
-Dave
Midnitesun
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16 posted 11-28-2001 02:28 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Well, maybe I'm just the biggest sinner I know, but I get headaches talking and thinking about "sin". When I was a small child, it seemed as if everything I did that didn't please mom was a sin. And when I wore fingernail polish to a Methodist Sunday School class when I was 12, I was told by the teacher it was a sin, that makeup was something made by the devil. I told that teacher "No, in fact, it had been made by Revlon...it said so right on the bottle." I was kicked out of that class, and told that my behavior was sinful.

I think it's a sin when I see someone hurting and I do nothing to try to ease their pain, but go about my merry way as if they didn't matter.

I think it's a sin against the spirit of God and all the holy messengers he has sent to us that we still fight and maim and kill one another, quite often in his name.

All of the other sins are ones someone else has made up and tried to stick me with. And THAT, is a really big SIN.  
serenity blaze
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17 posted 11-28-2001 05:05 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Midnite? methinks I can top that one....I was told by a particular church that MY INTELLECT was a SATANIC DEVICE used to disrupt my true communion with God i.e., their interpretation.....SIGH...

I replied that my intellect was a GIFT from GOD, to spare me from false prophets, such as THEY WERE.

GRIN...we don't see much of each other any more...
Sudhir Iyer
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18 posted 11-28-2001 06:46 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

(maybe) I think that:
If sin is an act of wrongdoing, there is no absolute SIN and no absolute RIGHT (or anti-sin).

We live in an imperfect world, and we try to define some social rules of all of us to live comfortably. Even belief in religion(s) transcended from defining sociable ways of life. (then again, I wonder if animals have their own religion or not, they should, I guess, for they have their own cult and society)

But then you can never please or displease everybody, so a sin to one is (maybe) just an undersight to another.

Well, I managed another return to this link. I guess I will explore more and maybe my thoughts might change as does everything else around me.

Regards to all,
Sudhir

P.S. By the way, I haven't found the correct antonym for sin and no perfect synonym either.
Midnitesun
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19 posted 11-28-2001 11:33 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Sudhir, the cult or religious Order of the Chickens...the very thought had me laughing. But they do have a pecking order that is hierarchical, like most religions I've encountered. The "top" rooster or hen rules, and beware anyone who disagrees, doomed to being pecked into non-existence with such cruelty that even cruel humans could admire, if such things could be admired. I have often found animals to be much less cruel than humans. But is their behavior sinful?
Sin is a manmade condition, a heavy club with which various rulers of the globe have tried to keep us under control, to behave a certain way....their way. And each generation seems to modify the meaning of sin...whose sin? what sin? what to do about the sinners? who is really in charge of all this sin and who is in charge of punishment?
I don't really look to humans for answers any more, just more questions. Now I am rambling and taking up valuable space on these blue pages. Perhaps a fresh cup of water of java will facilitate clear thinking. But perhaps only abstinence from outside stimulus is the answer to clear thinking? Time to meditate. My navel needs attention.
Thank you for the continuous stimulation.
Midnitesun
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20 posted 11-28-2001 11:38 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

Serenity, I did not mean to jump over your reply. LOL at your encounter. Your response was great.
I wish people would stop trying to SAVE me all the time. I don't need to be saved from anything but overindulgence...please padlock the refrigerator, and leave my soul alone.
 
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