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Passions in Poetry

Secrets of Poetry

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Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


25 posted 11-12-2001 08:25 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Kathleen,

"Ok since I started this topic let me refer to the above quote. The poet's ONLY responsiblity is to write a poem that IS understandable to the reader. No, absolutely there is no guarantee that in the mind of whoever is reading the poem the same feelings and same thoughts are going to be duplicated. This would be unrealistic considering everyone reads different things into everything else."

--I disagree. A good poem creates an effect but that effect does not have to be understandable if I understand what you mean by understandable. It's like music. There are many people who listen to music who don't care what the intent of the lyrics are or what the narrative background of classical music is.

--The effect is primary, the meaning secondary. Not the other way around.

Gotta go, baby stuff.  

Brad
The Lady of Shallot
Senior Member
since 10-03-2001
Posts 840
USA


26 posted 11-12-2001 10:26 PM       View Profile for The Lady of Shallot   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit The Lady of Shallot's Home Page   View IP for The Lady of Shallot

I guess I don't fully understand all of your viewpoints, but I sure do appreciate the input and this is an indepth thread. There are a lot of ideas about poetry and it's good to hash it out!  Thank you all for this conversation....are we finished?  

-befriend yourself and you will never be alone-
Kathleen :)

Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


27 posted 11-12-2001 10:31 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Jericha Satchel said:

quote:
More unfounded arrogance.


To me, the worst kind of arrogance is an assumption that everyone else in the world is stupid. It often comes as a big surprise when they discover others can see through their trickery.

If you don't want to play nice, then don't play. Attacking people rather than ideas is easy, and is just a lazy way to communicate. Around here, as you well know, it's poorly tolerated and when carried too far will bring with it consequences. And, yea, those consequences affect the person, not just their most recent Username.

Because we really ain't that stupid.
The Lady of Shallot
Senior Member
since 10-03-2001
Posts 840
USA


28 posted 11-12-2001 11:13 PM       View Profile for The Lady of Shallot   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit The Lady of Shallot's Home Page   View IP for The Lady of Shallot

well, my visit to the philosphy forum seemed to fall flat. I'm sorry about this. I think I missed something. I don't like it when people start arguing!!!I just wanted to share my feelings on poetry~

[This message has been edited by The Lady of Shallot (edited 11-12-2001).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


29 posted 11-13-2001 09:25 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Uh, I'm not quite sure what to tell you, but this forum in many ways is set up to promote disagreement, and it is frustrating when some one comes in declares TRUTH or, in this case, a one sentence theory of language.

In fact, the easiest way to create problems here is to do exactly that. I don't think I'm the only one around here who has alarm bells go off the moment someone tries to flatly assert a position as undebatable.

In the case of representationalism or in privileging understanding, it's not that they're silly or incorrect ideas but that they are debatable ideas.

In your original post, you mentioned the privileging of the 'how' over the 'what' -- this is something I have much sympathy for but only because I see so many privileging the 'what' over the 'how'. Actually, I consider them to be aspects (and therefore abstractions) of the whole thing (in this case the poem).

Nevertheless, you continue further and argue for ambiguity but without further clarification on the type of ambiguity you're recommending it's hard to see what you're trying to get at. Many people seem to think that this means you should avoid telling the story, or the whole story, that you leave something out. But this presupposes some kind of unmediated access to the story itself, that you can tell the whole story.

I don't think you can.

Further, you seem to be saying that the reader is therefore forced to put something into the poem and this implies that that's not something you do anyway (regardless of how much you put in the story).

That the reader will use his or her own experience to interpret the poem is axiomatic; it's not an option.

The implication is that the poem is still subordinate to the experience rather than an experience in an of itself.

And that's what I want to break.  

Brad
Irish Rose
Member Patricius
since 04-06-2000
Posts 10553


30 posted 11-13-2001 10:04 PM       View Profile for Irish Rose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irish Rose

I apologize, I didn't mean to declare "truth" I guess I was out of line. I sure didn't want to appear arguementative...
sorry, Brad. I was just trying to talk about poetry and how to make it better  


Kathleen
nickname "Kay"
also wrote as The Lady of Shallot
"be true to yourself"

[This message has been edited by Irish Rose (edited 11-13-2001).]

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


31 posted 11-13-2001 10:37 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

But you didn't do anything wrong.

I was just trying to say that these things happen regardless of what you do.

One might make the argument that the easiest way to start an argument is not to appear argumentative.  

To assume that you're position is not debatable is simply a surefire way to start an argument (and I'm not saying that you did that).

These things are going to happen anyway.

And it's still an interesting subject.  

Brad

Irish Rose
Member Patricius
since 04-06-2000
Posts 10553


32 posted 11-13-2001 10:57 PM       View Profile for Irish Rose   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Irish Rose

oh, ok, yes, it's a great subject. I learned an awful lot!

Kathleen
nickname "Kay"
also wrote as The Lady of Shallot
"be true to yourself"

The Lady of Shallot will be notified of replies
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