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Passions in Poetry

poets and madness/definition of insanity can it be beyond existence?

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anonymous albert ?
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0 posted 10-15-2001 06:12 PM       View Profile for anonymous albert ?   Email anonymous albert ?   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anonymous albert ?

why are poets more known to be in depression/bi-polar and/or easily descending into madness?

can we be insane and not know it...what exactly is a state called-insanity?...are genius/deep thinkers more fond to this state called-insanity?

....................................................................................................WHY?

[This message has been edited by anonymous albert ? (edited 10-16-2001).]

Brad
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since 08-20-99
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1 posted 10-16-2001 11:29 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Uh, every time I check this, it's a different post. Any reason for that?

Is this one going to stay?

I'm not convinced that poets are more prone to anything.

Stephanos
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2 posted 10-17-2001 12:27 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

hey Brad,

  ... except bad poetry.  


(couldn't restist that one) lol

Stephen.
Brad
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3 posted 10-17-2001 12:33 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Fell into that one, didn't I?  


Brad

PS Stephen, good to see you lurking about.
Brad
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Jejudo, South Korea


4 posted 10-17-2001 02:14 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to get at here. Do you mean insanity with reference to mental illness? Or do you mean insanity/crazy in terms of risks taken?

On the other hand, perhaps an interesting question would be to ask how we define normal?

How we define the familiar?

What is it that we look at everyday but don't see?

How does the world look when a routine is broken?

To use a famous example, what happens when you're making something, you reach for the hammer, and it's not there?

I think that might be interesting to poets.

More later,
Brad

Alicat
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5 posted 10-17-2001 10:56 AM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Well, I think the first question is answered easily, but not the second one.

Many poets get their start in poetry due to a pressing need to put thoughts on paper in times of grief, sadness, anger, depression, ennui, etc. Hence, cathartic poetry is conceived. I think that most poets start out this way, writing poetry to help heal the wounds within. Some stay with the cathartic style, and that's OK, though the themes do start to run together after a while. Others move on to different styles and formats, as their own reading brings them in contact with new material.

Personally, I really don't think that the majority of poets are chronically depressive or bi-polar, though we all may have our times of each. I do have a thought on why people with no reason to be sad get depressed, but that's for later.


As for the second question, how does one define insanity? It boils down to what society thinks, what the government thinks, what health services thinks, what psychological path you follow, and which psychoanalyst, psychotherapist, psychologist, philosopher, or man on the street you listen to or read.

Possibly more later.
RSWells
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6 posted 10-17-2001 02:22 PM       View Profile for RSWells   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for RSWells

I can only speak for myself. Being a bit bi-polar and having always been depressed I've been forced to consider what it all means. I've concluded that I and others like me are attuned to all around us. Observant ad nauseum, unable to not see into everything and even into it's meaning. Most people blow off what's below the surface and I can't help but ponder the motivation for everything. Once so fixed the answers are often negative and can, cumulatively overwhelm leading to depression that can even be paralyzing (still waters run deep). Thank God many find their way to a pencil and write their feelings. In my case a seemingly aimless, angry and wild life now calms having found poetry a year and a half ago. That's my take anyway.
Immortal Beloved
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7 posted 10-18-2001 02:02 PM       View Profile for Immortal Beloved   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Immortal Beloved's Home Page   View IP for Immortal Beloved

Hmmm so far i agree most with RSWells. i myself am also bi-polar and have been thinking about these questions since i was 14.
"why are poets more known to be in depression/bi-polar and/or easily descending into madness?"

that is a difficult question,my personal theories are far too long and far to tangled to really express though i would say that in my opinion,in general an artist is someone who seeks something. Visula artists seek the ideal form,they seek beauty,poets seek the ideal perfection of thought,musicians seek the profoundest most near perfection in melody that can be attained. I know each artist has their own ideas on their artistic creed,but personally i beleive artists are seekers,searchers for knowledge and for perfection. it kind of reminds me of what plato said about the human spirit coming from an ideal spirtual realm and bound inside an earthly body,plato said all things in the physical world were mere imitations of that perfect ideal spiritual realm,and therefore mankind could never be satisfied with earthly accomplishments,but would be always seeking for that ideal perfection. Though i don't completely agree with that i think he had a point. Anyways,what this has to do with anything: myself,i feel as if i am striving to attain some kind of perfection and since that's immpossible i often get quite frustrated with the whole mortality/imperfection thing. that's got to be my biggest GRRR!! in life.lol. it only fuels my chemicaly deficent disillusionment.

"can we be insane and not know it...what exactly is a state called-insanity?..."

i have heard it said that a person who is truely insane does not realize they are,and that a person who thinks they are insane is not truely.....that's an interesting thought,but perhaps not totally true. My own deffinition of insanity is a complete seperation from reality,there is an edge you cross,where something breaks and you no longer care about the world of reality,cease to care what people think completely,sometimes i think insanity is just to reject all social learning and requirements,on the other hard i think social perception of insanity is much differnt,as brad said it has a great deal to do with what you define as insanity and what you define as normality.

"are genius/deep thinkers more fond to this state called-insanity? "

I do think that many times and in many ways the lines of genius and insanity bleed almost into one. A close examination of a many of the greatest artists of the past reveals a state of genius and madness. Whether madness reaps genius of genius reaps madness is hard to tell,but if your interested in exploring the connection between manic-depression and artistic genius i suggest you look into a book,maybe your library would have it. it's called touched with fire by kay redfeild jamison and it is an EXCELLENT EXCELLENT book!! one of my personal favorites. it talks about alot of studies done by several doctors in several countries about the incredibly high percentage of artists with mental disorders and suicide compared to a "normal" control group of unartistic people. ah bosh i'll quit trying to explain it,just check it out if you get the chance,it also talks about particular writers and artists like van gogh,lord byron,shelly,etc. excellent book.

Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt~Julius Caesar

Interloper
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since 11-06-2000
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Deep in the heart


8 posted 10-18-2001 06:33 PM       View Profile for Interloper   Email Interloper   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Interloper

So, you want to define insanity

-or-

define sanity.

Let's see, we could see what Freud has to say, or Jung, or maybe Adler ... well, Maslow might know but he's not talking.  Seems like none of them really agree anyway.

Probably ought to go with Webster.  He's no psychologist but he DOES have the definition of both insanity and sanity
hush
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since 05-27-2001
Posts 1693
Ohio, USA


9 posted 10-20-2001 11:51 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

Maybe it's just that poets dwell more on things, as they are always trying to put them into words.

Then again, what do you call a poet? I know people who write poetry, and those who have a poetic personality, and the two don't always coincide... and in fact, in my experience, rarely do.

I eat only sleep and air -Nicole Blackman

 
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