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Passions in Poetry

Satanism

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Brad
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since 08-20-99
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Jejudo, South Korea


0 posted 10-08-2001 03:08 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Does anybody else remember when this was big news?
http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/history/0,6121,563887,00.html

Excerpt:

...but the real meat of Medway's book is much more serious: the recent "satanic abuse" scares. It was a Canadian husband-and-wife team - Lawrence and Michelle Pazder, therapist and patient respectively - who launched the notion of "ritualised abuse" in 1980, building on Michelle's alleged recollections of satanism in their book Michelle Remembers. It all went with the now discredited craze for "recovered memories" of child abuse. The combination of Christian fundamentalism and Oprah Winfrey-style psychotherapy was hugely powerful, and before long there was no stopping the black rumour-mill


Brad

[This message has been edited by Brad (edited 10-08-2001).]

anonymousfemale
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 6304
Limbo


1 posted 10-08-2001 11:20 AM       View Profile for anonymousfemale   Email anonymousfemale   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anonymousfemale

Brad, thank you for posting this. I had no idea that such a book was out and it would be a great read.
One thing that really annoys me to the ends of the earth is how people, mainly religious folk, associate the CoS with child abusing groups that do their sacrifices in the name of Satan. If anyone actually cared to look into our religion, they would see we do NO SUCH THING and have nothing to do with a devil of any sort.

Anyway, I might grab this book tomorrow for a read. It'd be interesting to see what these despicable people are doing in the name of Satanism.

~AF~

I look at myself in the mirror; am I vital today?
Nelly Furtado - Hey Man

Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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Southern Abstentia


2 posted 10-08-2001 04:41 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

AF?  - CoS???   huh??

Yeah Brad -- I remember it all too well actually -- the only real interesting thing about 'Satanism' is that it can't exist without Christianity...it makes no sense in any other religion -- so to be a satanist means one must be a Christian... so to speak.. but -- I digress again -- or do I?  was there a thesis we were discussing???  lol

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (edited 10-08-2001).]

fractal007
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since 06-01-2000
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3 posted 10-09-2001 11:45 PM       View Profile for fractal007   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fractal007

I have often found so-called Satanism on the internet laughable at best.  Satanism in the forms I have encountered it in, has always struck me as being hard-core youth existentialism, nihilism and atheism combined in one.  It used to scare me a little, but now sounds more like simple "I didn't wish to be born" teenaged existential angst.

Remember my suicide thread?  The site that was based on is a prime example.  Allegations of ritualistic abuse still abound in Christian circles of various types.  Several conservative Christian groups, most notably Chick Publications www.chick.com still tout it as well as other covert actions of society as being the unmasked truth of Satan's agenda.  This propaganda on the part of ultra conservative Christianity is simply a memetic attack designed to gain more followers of some puritanical doctrine or another.

"If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh"

-- Magus

anonymous albert ?
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4 posted 10-15-2001 05:44 PM       View Profile for anonymous albert ?   Email anonymous albert ?   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anonymous albert ?

"'Satanism' is that it can't exist without Christianity" hmmm...like day cant w/out night? interesting.

[This message has been edited by anonymous albert ? (edited 10-15-2001).]

serenity blaze
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5 posted 10-15-2001 07:51 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Um...Brad...not sure what you are looking for here, a commentary on Satanism, or the "induced memory" abuse of some psychotherapists? I read the book--as well as several others, and can assure that while ritualized abuse can and DOES occur--as does psychotherapy abuse--according to my investigations of ancient religion, Satanism is a *******ized, misunderstood offshoot of a sect of the Kabal--that simply stated that there was no duplicity of good and evil,no dualism, that if one perceived "God as energy" it was all one and the same. Energy is neither positive or negative, more like active and receptive. Thus the perception of God and Satan (i.e., Good and Evil) were simply manifestations of the individual's persona...and I KNOW I'm jumping in a can of worms again, but you "tempted" me you devil!  

didja miss me?  

oops, had no idea that word was considered cussing, or offensive, and if I can think of a replacement, I will re-edit.

[This message has been edited by serenity (edited 10-15-2001).]

Brad
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since 08-20-99
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6 posted 10-15-2001 09:00 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Hey!!!

This has taken an interesting turn. Originally I saw it as another brick in the idea that searching for demons makes normal, average, 'good' people do demonic things.

I didn't quote the part but the section that describes various excorcisms appalled me.

Brad
serenity blaze
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7 posted 10-16-2001 03:07 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Brad....sometimes I think it is belief in demons that give some the "loophole" of doing "demonic" things...."The DEVIL made me do it!" sounds pretty close to "Not me, ma..." and conversely, there is the argument of a vengeful God manipulating circumstance into divine justice. "I pulled the trigger, but only God gives life and only God can take it." And SIGH, I do hate to bring this all up and run, but I will be busy---but popping in when I can...I agree...

THIS IS INTERESTING.
Stephanos
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8 posted 10-17-2001 12:10 AM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

Very interesting thread...

alot of views here.  Is Satanism real?  There are etablished organizations that profess the worship of Satan and they are many.  Even an earlier reply to this thread attested that the CoS (church of satan) is a real entity.   But the question at hand has to do with the touted abuse, or ritualistic atrocities which other groups claim that satanists do.  Are they fake?  My guess is that alot of these stories are sensationalistic, and run along the same tracks of emotion as do macabre legends and ghost stories.  They are mystical and create a sense of awe and dread, and so people stretch them, exaggerate, or even lie.  But are the ALL fake?  I wouldn't bet on it.  While many of the groups that profess to worship satan may express their religion in more socially acceptable ways, it would be foolish, in my opinion, not to think that these sort of things could happen among diverse groups who profess to worship a being who has traditionally been known as the personification of evil and rebellion.  Not all of the satanists are philanthropists and humanitarians.  There have been too many accounts of brutality, violence, manipulation, fear, etc.. etc... for all of them to be false.  

The above would be a sensible outlook even for those who don't believe in Satan, or the Devil, or any personal expression of true evil.  For those like myself who believe that Satan is, in reality, a fallen angelic being and the originator of all sin and evil in this world, to deny that satanists have done or do anything evil would be ludicrous.  I am aware that many stories full of exaggeration and propaganda have been circulated among religious groups, and being a Christian I understand that I am at risk of being categorized as a like-minded person as those who have erred.  But I am like the man (to steal an idea from C.S. Lewis) who believes in spies well enough but doesn't believe every spy story.  

If I were satan, the fabrication of many outlandish stories which might distract others from my true agenda and bring those who know of my existence into disrepute, is exactly what I would encourage. . . so that the other (seemingly more discerning) would write me off as a myth.

Just some thoughts.

Stephen.

[This message has been edited by Stephanos (edited 10-17-2001).]

hush
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since 05-27-2001
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Ohio, USA


9 posted 10-20-2001 11:43 AM       View Profile for hush   Email hush   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for hush

My basic familiarity of Satanism (and I'm willing to guess that this is the case with a lot of people from my generation) is with the music or Marylin Manson and all of his B.S. theories about Anton LaVey (SP?) and the CoS and all that.... I had an interest in it for a while, and I do appreciate some of its ideals- basically, from what I know, it is basically Nietzsche (SP?) taken a step further from philosophy to religion. It preaches respect, and even worship, of the self instead of an actual God, and basically promotes everything that Christianity doesn't... liberation of all the rules and limits on Earthly pleasures that Christian religions create...

My basic problem with Satanism is that it seems very pretentious and irritating... for the sole purpose of offending mainstream culture with their aloof sense of "we're better and more enlightened than you are, the dark side is where it's at, Christians are idiots" and so on. The fact that they call it Satanism is a prime example.... what better way to instill fear and disgust in a population of people that is primarily Christian? I think many feed off of the controversy they create by labelling themselves something as confrontational as Satanist... they'll try to tell you how sound and moral and etc. their ideas are... and undoubtedly some of them are, but the point is that they are just a reactive group to Christianity and, true enough, cannot exist without it. It just irks me, more than anything, I guess... They seem to evoke this menacing presence, hoping to instill fear, and when that fear materializes in rumors or even well-backed-up statements of abuse and "evil" acts, they (once again) react to the reaction they were looking for in the first place by being offended at being stereotyped. *shakes head* this rant is over, because I'm making blanket statements.

I eat only sleep and air -Nicole Blackman

Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


10 posted 10-20-2001 07:46 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Hush,

Really? Interesting. I guess they should spend a little more time reading what Nietzche actually said, don't you think?

Or was Fred just lying when he excoriated everyone for being insufficiently Kantian?



Brad

fractal007
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since 06-01-2000
Posts 2032


11 posted 10-21-2001 11:43 PM       View Profile for fractal007   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fractal007

Wow!  This discussion has really gone far.  I like Hush's opinions.  I too feel that Satanism[inasmuch as it is called by many youth in our generation] is much like something that "seems very pretentious and irritating."  In fact, I recall being on Yahoo one time [ that's where all the people who like to swear and get Christians riled up seem to live] with this "Satanist" who kept claiming that all Christians are going to hell, while at the same time claiming that the truths of Christianity are false.  I found that to be one of the most amusing "satanists" I've ever encountered.  

I have read very little on Satanism.  The official definition, if memory serves, is more of a philosophy of self indulgence in various sinful acts.  Of course, the participant may very well simply not even use the notation "sin" at all.

The popular Satanist commonly seen on Christian chat forums, particularly at Yahoo, is trite and amusing at best.

"If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh"

-- Magus

 
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