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Something really interesting for all of you. . .
| Philosophy 101 |
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Something really interesting for all of you. . . |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA 
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Why is an orange? I await your replies. . .  --------------------------------------------------------------- That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I like to look at oranges and think, "why not?" |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
Simple...because it's not a plum. |
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warmhrt Senior Member
since 1999-12-18
Posts 1563 |
Sorry, Ali...it's because it's not an apple. You know the old saying, "Apples and oranges..." mia< !signature--> ...got to be somewhere better than in the middle...~Wallflowers [This message has been edited by miapoetess (edited 11-07-2000).] |
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Elizabeth
Moderator
Member Ascendant
since 1999-06-07
Posts 6871Minnesota |
And because it's not a banana! Elizabeth< !signature--> You cling to your ways and leave mine to me. Suum cuique. ~Elizabeth [This message has been edited by Elizabeth (edited 11-07-2000).] |
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Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 1999-05-26
Posts 22612Hurricane Alley |
or·ange n. Any of several southeast Asian evergreen trees of the genus Citrus, widely cultivated in warm regions and having fragrant white flowers and round fruit with a yellowish or reddish rind and a sectioned, pulpy interior, especially C. sinensis, the sweet orange, and C. aurantium, the Seville or sour orange. The fruit of any of these trees, having a sweetish, acidic juice. Any of several similar plants, such as the Osage orange and the mock orange. **** Color. The hue of that portion of the visible spectrum lying between red and yellow, evoked in the human observer by radiant energy with wavelengths of approximately 590 to 630 nanometers; any of a group of colors between red and yellow in hue, of medium lightness and moderate saturation. ***** [Middle English from Old French pume orenge, translation and alteration (influenced by Orenge, Orange, a town in France) of Old Italian melarancio: mela, fruit + arancio, orange tree (alteration of Arabic nranj) (from Persian nrang) (from Sanskrit nraga) (possibly of Dravidian origin).] **** Word History: Oranges imported to China from the United States reflect a journey come full circle, for the orange had worked its way westward for centuries, originating in China, then being introduced to India, and traveling on to the Middle East, into Europe, and finally to the New World. The history of the word orange keeps step with this journey only part of the way. The word is possibly ultimately of Dravidian origin, that is, it comes from a language or languages in a large non-Indo-European family of languages, including Tamil and Telugu, that are spoken in southern India and northern Sri Lanka. The Dravidian word or words were adopted into the Indo-European language Sanskrit with the form nraga. As the fruit passed westward, so did the word, as evidenced by Persian nrang and Arabic nranj. Arabs brought the first oranges to Spain, and the fruit rapidly spread throughout Europe. The important word for the development of our term is Old Italian melarancio, derived from mela, “fruit,” and arancio, “orange tree,” from Arabic nranj. Old Italian melarancio was translated into Old French as pume orenge, the o replacing the a because of the influence of the name of the town of Orange, from which oranges reached the northern part of France. The final stage of the odyssey of the word was its borrowing into English from the Old French form orenge. Our word is first recorded in Middle English in a text probably composed around 1380, a time preceding the arrival of the orange in the New World. Is that what you meant? |
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Severn Member Rara Avis
since 1999-07-17
Posts 7704 |
I believe we've had this debate before haven't we? Somewhere in the Alley... Hmmm... I am giving it serious philosophical thought... ~thinking thinking~ hmmm ~head hurting~ Where is Plato! Where is Seneca! ~ouch...headache~ nup got no answer for ya ~pause~ I KNOW I KNOW! Because then it sounds really sexy when you say it with a French accent...  |
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Cerenity Member Elite
since 2000-02-16
Posts 2637Escondido-California |
Sven, All I can do is laugh today, blank as wall upstairs, SEEEEE I told you nothing, no pro-found thought's coming from me, but I can't wait till you tell us Love, Cerenity "God doesn't have to be reminded that we exist. We have to be reminded that He exist!" (Writer Unknown) |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA |
deVine... that is not what I meant!!! LOL  And Ali and mia. . . sorry. . .but you're not right. . . but you're not wrong either. . . serenity, I used to look at oranges and think. . . "orange juice"! Severn. . . hmmmmmmmmm. . . orronge. . . hmmmmmm. . . you're right. . . it does! Cerenity. . . LOL You make me laugh my friend. . . I'm not really all that profound myself. . . let it sink in a little more. . .you'll get it! ------------------------------------------------------------ That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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Cerenity Member Elite
since 2000-02-16
Posts 2637Escondido-California |
Sven, Why is an Orange? Orange Cerenity |
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Alicat Member Elite
since 1999-05-23
Posts 4094Coastal Texas |
But...but ah likes plums.....you can throw apple seeds at thingies, but they don't do much...now, a plum pit..you can git a lot of distance off one of them thingies. |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA |
Cerenity. . . great answer!!!. . . Alicat, I know that you can get good distance with a plum pit. . . but you can do more damage with the whole plum!!! -------------------------------------------------------- That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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Cerenity Member Elite
since 2000-02-16
Posts 2637Escondido-California |
But Sven is that the answer? and if so why is it Orange? Love, Cerenity |
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Rosebud1229 Senior Member
since 2000-04-05
Posts 1813North Carolina |
knock knock whose there orange knock knock whose there orange knock knock whose there orange knock knock whose there apple aren't you glad I didn't say orange o.k I give! oran-ge you suppose to tell now! there could be a wide 0000 range on this subject. |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Honestly, I don't understand the question. Are you asking an ontological question: What is an orange? An epistemological question: How do we know what an orange is? An etymological question: Why do we call an orange an orange? An essentialist question: What are the unique properties of an orange? A structuralist question: What is the specific network of synchronic differences that allow us to use the term "orange" with relative clarity? Or something else? I thought Sharon's response was great and very interesting. If I understand that commentary correctly, we don't designate the fruit orange because it's an orange color, we designate the color orange orange because it's like the fruit. Help! Brad |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA |
Brad, nothing so difficult. . . We ask things like "Why is the sky blue?" and "Why is the grass green?". . . that's the question. . . Why is an orange? Not, "why is an orange orange?" or "why are there oranges?". . .but simply "Why is an orange?" Why is it? I know, "Why is it what?" Just Why We can ask what is an orange who is an orange where is an orange we could even ask when is an orange I'm asking why Does that help? Probably not!! But give it another shot. . . --------------------------------------------------------- That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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Cerenity Member Elite
since 2000-02-16
Posts 2637Escondido-California |
Why is an orange? and God said let there be oranges and there was, to tantalize the taste buds and stir the juices, and may they ripen in the light of the sun, and become sweet and juicy, and God smiled. Next God created prunes, but that’s another story!  Actually I think that there is no real answer, it's what you believe, I say God made them and others will say something different. What is an orange, What Poet deVine said. Who is an orange, its not who its what "fruit" Where is an orange, under that tree over there. When is an orange, I'll leave that to the science department, but I say when ready to EAT! This is fun hehe, Love, Cerenity |
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LoveBug
Moderator
Member Elite
since 2000-01-08
Posts 4697 |
Orange-ya glad that I'm going to keep my mouth shut?? |
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Temptress
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 1999-06-15
Posts 7136Mobile, AL |
An orange is because it is orange. Or is it? Thats all I have to say..Tune in next time for more brillance from Jennifer! LOL! |
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serenity blaze Member Empyrean
since 2000-02-02
Posts 27738 |
I do have trouble with this---here we are thinking, or some of us might be, "why, indeed, is an orange?" so, we are considering the orange as an absolute? Of course, I believe, the real question you are asking, is, "why is an absolute, an absolute?" and I must contend, that Absolute dances lovely with oranges...lol...and vice versa, especially on long hot summer days... |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Sven: I think you need to be more specific. It seems to me that you are not even sure how to articulate the question you are asking. Are you simply asking an open ended "why"? If so, I can think of no better answer than Sharon's. I, personally, think you are asking an etymological question ... but I'll reserve my further comments until I understand the question (and I want to understand the question). Jim |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA |
Jim, stop trying to understand the question. . . and really just ask it out loud. . . and don't think about it. . . just answer it. . . It's just a simple why. . . now, I know that it's hard to do that. . .I know that the first time I heard this question that I didn't understand it. . . I tried to "fill in the blanks" so to speak. . . but this is the question. . . why is an orange? serenity is on the right track, sort of. . . but it's not "why is an absolute absolute"? (although you might need an Absolut when this is over. . .) Try thinking about it this way. . . an orange is because. . . and take that is as it's being, its existance. . . but the question is not something even that high, it's at its most basic level. . . why is an orange? And btw, Cerenity is on the right track too. . . and so is Temptress, probably even more than most realize. . . (brilliant btw, Jenn!)  ---------------------------------------------------------- That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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CocoBaci Member Elite
since 2000-05-06
Posts 3043 |
Sven, you're probably going to shake your head at my response but I'm in a  mood so here ya go the giggle is on mOi...Why ..is an orange What ..is an apple Who ..is a peach Where ..is a melon When ..is a berry now let's mix ourselves a drink When this is solved get back 2 me will ya... Coco [This message has been edited by CocoBaci (edited 11-10-2000).] |
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Lone Wolf Member Ascendant
since 2000-03-16
Posts 5842Lansing, MI USA |
Sven, Because it is!! God made it that way so accept it!! LOL. LW Poetry should surprise by fine excess...it should strike the reader as a wording of his own highest thoughts and appear almost a remembrance. -J.Keats |
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Moon Dust
since 1999-06-11
Posts 2177Skelmersdale, UK |
because its an orange  Sometimes you have to let go and move on, But never let go of the memories. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Actually, Lone Wolf brings up a good point. If you are talking about "Why" an orange exists, it leans toward a metaphysical question ... the answer transcends us and, therefore, is not really answerable. If you are asking, "Why do we apprehend an orange?", I would say we (humans) apprehend and orange because we are reinforced (positively or negatively) by an orange (the stimulus) being present and, as a result, respond to the presence of the stimulus. Stimulus ---> Response ---> Reinforcement Take away the "Reinforcement", and there is no reason to acknowledge the presence of the orange or even ask the question "Why is an orange". (This is one explanation for the varying degrees of detachment evident in people with autism). We acknowledge the presence of an orange, or the feature of something being the color orange, because it reinforces a response (aversion -- an orange Hawaiin shirt, hunger -- a big, fat California orange, and warning -- as in the case of orange cones in the road --). Or something like that. Jim |
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Dopey Dope
Moderator
Member Patricius
since 2000-08-30
Posts 11132San Juan, Puerto Rico |
Because I say so  I was born myself, raised myself, and will continue to be myself. The world will just have to adjust. I hate your socks. I'd like to burn them! |
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Sunshine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 1999-06-25
Posts 63354Listening to every heart |
but what if one is colorblind? What is it then? Karilea If I whisper, will you listen?... I would rather be silent and write, than speak loudly and be bound. KRJ |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA |
You would ask that Karilea! -------------------------------------------------------- That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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Tony Di Bart Member
since 2000-01-26
Posts 160Toronto, Canada |
" Why is an orange?" An orange is because it is not. A frog dives beneath the water when it reaches for the sky. A tear leaves your eye when the butterfly lands on a lilac. An orange is why? In the middle of the one hand claping,just before you see your face before you were born that is why an orange is . An orange is the holder of all the secrets of the universe that is Why an orange is.....etc etc etc... Why is an orange? |
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Masked Intruder
Moderator
Senior Member
since 1999-05-23
Posts 1231Near golden sunsets |
An orange is for the same reason I is. When the daddy orange tree and the mommy orange tree met they fell madly in love. They went to movies and had dinner together many times. Quite often they could be found together watching the sun rise or set, depending on which side of the hill they were on. One day the mommy orange tree got pregnant and oranges popped up all over her. I used to be an orange once, when I was still in my mommy's tummy. I dont' really remember what it was like, but I'm sure it was exciting. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Maybe I'm just being a wet blanket but I am having trouble with this (I can't decide whether I am having more trouble with the question or with the cute answers). The original question is either serious or it is bait to draw the prospective answerer into a semantic maze. I assumed the question was intended to be taken seriously so my answer was serious. Was I wrong? |
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monique Member
since 2000-02-03
Posts 369Louisiana |
Why is an orange? it contains vitamin C it is good for us to eat, it is refreshing, a ripe orange,mmmmmm. If it is sour a bit, i sprinkle salt on it. God gave the orange a nice color and form to look at, set on your table, in your lunch box, in the middle of green grass and if your are bored you can play ball with it. [This message has been edited by monique (edited 11-15-2000).] |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA |
Jim, you weren't wrong. . .it's a real question. . . with a real answer. . . It's kinda Zen-like. . . like the "sound of one hand clapping" or "if a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound?" I feel that you're having trouble with this just because you want to analyze it. . . you want to understand it. . . and that's a good thing. . . but in your analyzing of it, you're lost. . . you're used to things having somewhat definite answers. . . and this question really does have a definitive answer. . . and, conversely, it doesn't have a definintive answer. . . I know that I'm being ambiguous while being totally unclear here Jim. . . but maybe if you approach it from that "Zen" standpoint that I've presented here. . . you might see it. . . I'll reveal the answer soon. . . I promise. . . ------------------------------------------------------- That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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Romy Senior Member
since 2000-05-28
Posts 1170Plantation, Florida |
Because we have delegated it to be so... |
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Ryan Member
since 1999-06-10
Posts 297Kansas |
Ironically, I think all the "cute answers" are probably the closest to the truth. An orange simply is. It is because I want an orange. It is because I don't want an orange. It is because it is not an apple and it is because it is not a pear. It is because mommy and daddy orange made sweet love up in the top of the tree (am I allowed to say that?). This bring to mind an interesting book called "The Scripture of the Golden Eternity" by Jack Kerouac. It is essentially his adaptation of Buddhism (to fit with his Catholic upbringing). Everything is, but is not. It is an interesting idea (though I admit I have not made it through the whole thing yet...maybe someday). So, there is a definitive answer, but it isn't definitive. Ryan I like too many things and get all confused and hung-up running from one falling star to another till i drop. This is the night, what it does to you. I had nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion. —Jack Kerouac |
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Trew Member
since 2000-06-10
Posts 365Ottawa, Canada |
Why is an orange? Evolution. |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Sven: quote: Okay. Perhaps, from the point of view of Zen Buddhism, I am lost by my insistance that the question requires analysis. To a behaviorist, I think my answer is pretty close to the mark. Since humans exhibit human behavior regardless of philosophical world view, I think my answer is superior to the Zen answer. The question is "Why is an orange." Again, if the question is a metaphysical question, a good answer would be "The orange simply is." But if the heart of the question is why an orange becomes an object of our attention, contemplation, meditation or whatever, I think the basic behavioral model I mentioned above is the better answer: Stimulus ---> Response ---> Reinforcement If the orange did not cause some sort of reinforcement (positive or negative), no response would be likely to follow (not a Zen response, not a Western response, not an etymological response, etc.). Your question cannot be separated from the verbal community and, therefore, cannot be divorced from human behavior. Your answer may be a Zen-like answer to the question but it is still founded on a behavioral model. The Stimulus is question "Why is an orange" ---> Your Response is your yet-to-be revealed Zen-like answer ---> But why the Response??? ... because responding to the question is Reinforcing to you (positively or negatively). The model works just as well for those answering cute answers. The Stimulus is the original question ---> A satisfactory answer escapes the questioner who Responds in a comedic manner because ---> Making a joke is more Reinforcing than saying "I don't know" to the answerer in this case. For those who don't have an answer or don't understand the Stimulus (the original question) ---> their Response is silence which is ---> Reinforcing for any number of reasons, including saving the answerer the embarrassment of answering the original question in a way that may be perceived by some as being the wrong answer. You may offer your Zen-like answer and it may differ from all of those offered previously. But what underlies your question (assuming it is not a metaphysical question) is why we human beings apprehend an orange and, therefore, I believe the answer lies in an examination of why we entertain an answer to the question in the first place. Do you disagree? Jim [This message has been edited by jbouder (edited 11-15-2000).] |
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Jamie Member Elite
since 2000-06-26
Posts 3168Blue Heaven |
An Orange is because we allow it to be - having not yet added it to the list of the extinct. Genetic diversity helps maintain and improve domestic crops. Wild strains often contain genes which can be crossed with their domesticated counterparts to better protect crops against pests and diseases.the Green Revolution, by encouraging the use of only a few exceptional crop strains, spread those same successful strains across the agricultural world and squeezed out native varieties. Without a diversity of strains, crops become overly homogenous and vulnerable to mass blight.In Brazil in 1991, for example, the genetic similarity of the orange trees opened the door for the worst outbreak of citrus canker in history. As long as wild strains still exist and evolve, we can protect our crops from becoming too vulnerable. But an estimated 1/4 of plant species could die out by the year 2020 largely due to human factors, and by destroying the diversity of plants in our rainforests, we put our domestic plants --- and our own lives --- at risk. ps-- I'm not really a granola crunching, sandal wearing tree hugger Jamie Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. - Virgil. "Yield thou not to adversity, but press on the more bravely". |
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Romy Senior Member
since 2000-05-28
Posts 1170Plantation, Florida |
"How can we know why something is (or should be) a certain way if we don't know why there is anything at all?" Robert Nozick |
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Moon Dust
since 1999-06-11
Posts 2177Skelmersdale, UK |
because it's the way we precive it to be? Nah I give up theres no answer Sometimes you have to let go and move on, But never let go of the memories. |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA |
Jim, I'd disagree with you. . . but I have no idea what you're talking about. . . It's just a question. . . it's not really as involved as you might make it out to be. . . I do appreciate your explanation though. . . but again, you're trying to go too in-depth. . . Just my opinion. . . thanks for your insight. . . -------------------------------------------------------- That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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Lone Wolf Member Ascendant
since 2000-03-16
Posts 5842Lansing, MI USA |
Okay gang, The answer to why is an orange is . . . drumroll please . . . . BECAUSE COWS DON'T GROW ON TREES!!!!!! LW Poetry should surprise by fine excess...it should strike the reader as a wording of his own highest thoughts and appear almost a remembrance. -J.Keats |
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Romy Senior Member
since 2000-05-28
Posts 1170Plantation, Florida |
ORANGE-ya gonna tell us? |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
Prometheus: I'm not convinced that the orange "is" because we allow it to be. We certainly have the power to significantly reduce the number of oranges in the world but eradication is another matter. I just don't think the natural balance is as fragile as some make it sound (that is not to say that we shouldn't be careful). Debbie: If Sven means his question to be understood metaphysically, I agree with your quote. Sven: Look up "B. F. Skinner" and "behavioral analysis". Your question is open ended and subject to several interpretations that must be sorted out before an adequate answer can be reached. In a sense, every answer is correct and every answer is wrong. This is precisely why I think that the question behind the question, rather than the elusive answer, ought to be the focus. What is the constant? The constant is foundational elements of human behavior involved in contemplating the question in the first place. For us (subjectively) the orange "is" because its presence is either positively or negatively reinforcing. For the physicist, the neutrino is because its existence is reinforcing. To me, the only reinforcement I get out of "neutrino" is knowing the word (I know almost nothing more about it). Is this confusing? Sure it is. Behavioral analysis is somewhat complicated but, foundationally, it is superior to many of its rivals. Still looking forward to your answer. Jim |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA |
Well, it's right above. . . given by Lone Wolf. . . (who, I will say, had an unfair advantage as I've told her this once before. . .) Why is an orange? Because cows don't grow on trees This is the real answer. . . it's not something that I made up. . . it's the answer. . . I was asked this question back in high school by a friend of mine. . . and he swore to me that he had not made it up either. . .that it was a real question with a real answer. . . and I have had the question asked of me by other people throught my life. . . people who were quite surprised to hear that I knew the answer! Now, I know most of you are saying, "What kind of @#$^%@) answer is that?" But, if you think about it. . . it makes sense. . .what if cows did grow on trees? Would we still call them cows? What if cows were orange? Would we call them oranges? What if oranges gave milk? What would we do then??? I hope that you will think about this for a few days. . .or the rest of your life. . .try it on your friends. . .see what they say. . . And Jim, I know about most of what you're talking about. . . but do you see where that really doesn't fit here? I mean, this kind of takes all those rules and things and throws them out the window doesn't it? Thank you all for your time, and your answers. . . this has been very entertaining and fun. . . ---------------------------------------------------------- That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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jbouder Member Elite
since 1999-09-18
Posts 2534Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash |
quote: Um ... actually, it illustrates the truth of the rule rather nicely. Let me explain. If cows were orange, it is conceivable that a participant in the verbal community would picture what we see as a cow in our minds when that person hears the word "orange" spoken. Why is an orange? Because cows don't grow on trees. Because oranges don't give milk. Because they are not blue. Tacting, or labeling, is one of the most basic forms of verbal behavior (we begin doing it the first time we associate a word with a thing ... momma, dadda, etc.). We are able to communicate in our verbal communities because we use similar tacts or labels. If when you said "cow" you meant "orange", and every one else thought "Brad" when you said "cow" (sorry Brad), there would be udder confusion (sorry ... very bad pun). But if cows were orange and grew on trees, when you say "orange" people may very well picture what we would think of as a cow. Your question and answer illustrate what I've been saying all along. Our language in the verbal community would be impacted significantly if cows grew on trees and oranges gave milk. THAT is what would happen. I don't think there would be confusion ... we would simply use different words, phrases, and idioms to communicate. You answer "Why is an orange?" with "Because cows don't grow on trees" but you don't answer the "Why" that lies behind both your question AND your answer. The answer to THAT question lies in human behavior and, specifically, in human verbal behavior. Jim P.S. What do you mean "this has been fun"? I'm only getting started! P.P.S. Thanks for reading my rant. |
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Romy Senior Member
since 2000-05-28
Posts 1170Plantation, Florida |
Jim, you beat me to this post! Although mine isn't as technical, I have written a similar response that agrees with your opinion! "this question really does have a definitive answer. . . and, conversely, it doesn't have a definintive answer.." If this statement is true, then all of these quotes from the other people who posted should be correct…am I wrong? "Simple...because it's not a plum" "it's because it's not an apple" "because it's not a banana!" "An orange is because it is orange" "Because it is!" "because its an orange" "An orange is for the same reason I is" "Because we have delegated it to be so..." "It is because it is not an apple and it is because it is not a pear." "An Orange is because we allow it to be" " because it's the way we precive it to be?" "BECAUSE COWS DON'T GROW ON TREES!!!!!!" This is the real answer What if cows were orange? Would we call them oranges? What if oranges gave milk? What would we do then??? If cows were orange, we may have decided to call them that, but we call them cows. And they don’t grow on trees, therefore we have not named them oranges! AND SO... Why is a cow? Because oranges don’t give milk! [This message has been edited by Debbie (edited 11-16-2000).] |
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Brad Member Ascendant
since 1999-08-20
Posts 5705Jejudo, South Korea |
Jim's right here as is Debbie. The answer seems to be along the lines of Bilbo Baggins riddle "What's in my pocket?" If you don't look, there's no way to tell what's going to be the answer. Sarte called this type of psuedo-dialectical thinking true but not very useful. But what nobody has considered is that no real context has been given (Lone Wolf, on the other hand, had a context and thus got the 'real' answer). We could just as easily perform an Abbot and Costello routine here: "Why is an orange?" meaning something like "Do you have or know an orange named why?" the answer would then be yes or no depending on the situation. What bothers me here is not the answer but the explanation: Why is an orange? Because cows don't grow on trees This is the real answer. . . it's not something that I made up. . . it's the answer. . . I was asked this question back in high school by a friend of mine. . . and he swore to me that he had not made it up either. . .that it was a real question with a real answer. . . and I have had the question asked of me by other people throught my life. . . people who were quite surprised to hear that I knew the answer! --This is argument by assertion, not persuasion. Why use the term 'real' and not correct? You provide no documentation for your assertion (a friend and others who knew the question already does not count as documentation because they are simply asserting the same thing you are: because it is). You seem unwilling to accept that the answer has to be multiple (indeed infinite) without a context. --This is rather authoritarian, don't you think? On what grounds should I believe you as opposed to others? Simply because? --As Jim pointed out, this doesn't throw the rules out the window, it is a perfect example of those rules, of current theories of language and philosophy. All phonetic and graphic signs are arbitrary; they have no connection to the 'signified' and thus can be used in any way that you want. It is only the verbal community, the culture of any group that allows understanding (such as it is) to take place in the first place. In this case, the 'culture' is your friends and other who are in the same community. This is actually a tautology. By knowing the answer to the question, you become part of the community by definition. Is it possible to get the 'real' answer without being a part of that community? Sure, but the odds, it seems to me, can easily be calculated as a fluke. You can believe in some sort of metaphysical truth to all of this but I don't buy it for one second. Brad PS Who's on first? |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Brad, the answer to your question, "Who's on first," although it's really a statement rather than a question, is yes, if my memory serves me correctly. Pete |
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Stephanos
since 2000-07-31
Posts 3618Statesboro, GA, USA |
There is a serious flaw in this question for anyone with english/ grammar 101. Why is an orange? This is either inaccurate in word choice or it is missing something in order to be a valid question. You can say "why is an orange orange?" You can even say "why is there an orange?" or "why are there oranges?" or "why do oranges exist?" But the bottom line is that (no matter how you tell us not to think about it and to just answer it), this question makes no grammatical sense as it stands. The closest I can figure, you are dancing aroud the question of existence which is legitimate... but this is worded absolutely wrong. To answer the question concerning existence, I would say that God created oranges for his own aesthetic pleasure and ours, for our nourishment (not his own), and that we might become aware of the power and wisdom of his nature. |
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Not A Poet Member Elite
since 1999-11-03
Posts 3885Oklahoma, USA |
Bravo Stephanos. Finally someone with the courage to answer honestly. Pete Never express yourself more clearly than you can think - Niels Bohr |
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Jeffrey Carter
since 2000-04-08
Posts 2367State of constant confusion! |
I hate to agree with someone the likes of Sven  but his question and answer does actually make sense to me. You could also apply the question to all things in the world (i.e. Why is a human? ) And though the answer wouldn't have anything to do with cows it has basically the same premise. Now figure this one out LOL I would also have to say that Sven's given answer when broken down actually states what many of you guessed. "Why is an orange?" Simply because it is. Just my thoughts....Jeff |
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Sven
since 1999-11-23
Posts 14937East Lansing, MI USA |
Jeff. . . you get a gold star!!! Now then. . . I'd like to say that this has been fun. . . it was very interesting to see what all of you had to say, and the way that you presented your answers. . . But I feel that some of you totally missed the point here. . . there are times where you have to take the question at face value. . . not try to analyze it to the point that you've lost what the question was. . . and not to say that it doesn't fit into the rules of what a question should be. . . then. . . you've missed the answer. . . This was a simple question. . . with a simple answer. . . maybe not the "right" answer. . . but an answer. . . to say that it was "right" would be to say that all of you were wrong. . . thus making the sprit of the question totally off the mark. . . and you weren't. . . all of you were right. . . you interpreted the question correctly. . . Thanks again. . . we'll have to do this again sometime!!! --------------------------------------------------------- That which gives light must endure burning --Victor Frankl |
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