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Passions in Poetry

Is it a male thing?

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Marilyn
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since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada


0 posted 10-07-2000 10:55 PM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

How do men react to powerful women? Do they become initimated by them and why is that? Do they feel they have to dominate them and why is that? I guess what I really want to know is this. Why is it so hard to find a man who won't either run from you or try to run over you when you are a confident, self-assured, powerful woman?


It should be interesting to see what kind of hornets nest this stirs up...lol.
Trevor
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since 08-12-99
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1 posted 10-08-2000 11:04 AM       View Profile for Trevor   Email Trevor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trevor

Hey Marilyn,

I guess I'm the first hornet out of the nest.

"How do men react to powerful women?"

I think it varies from person to person. Asking a question like that is like asking someone what do they find attractive about someone.

"Do they become initimated by them and why is that?"

Being intimidated is a common reaction I think towards someone in a position of power or authority. Probably often has something to do with feelings of inadequacy or a lack of self-confidence....or perhaps that person has some control over the fate of another, ie. employees are often intimidated by their boss because they control their livelyhood(spelling?) to some extent.

"Do they feel they have to dominate them and why is that?"

I'm guessing some do and some don't. I think, and I have no factual data to back this up but just rather what I've seen, that the pendulum swings both ways. Sometimes the male is dominant in a relationship and sometimes its the female. Not all men are the take charge kinda fella just like not all women are the meek and quiet type.

"Why is it so hard to find a man who won't either run from you or try to run over you when you are a confident, self-assured, powerful woman?"

Maybe because often people, regardless of sex, don't like to be controlled or dominated. In my opinion, sometimes these "powerful" people, both women and men, are not just confident but also overbearing, domineering, arrogant, conceded, self consumed and manipulative....I mean anyone who considers themselves more powerful than others does have an ego to contend with and more than likely does like to control things, ie. thoughts of power usually pertain to thoughts of control. Personally its hard for anyone, regardless of personality, social status or "power", to find someone they truly connect with and can have a lasting relationship with....its not an exclusive problem for powerful women, though I'm guessing that many powerful people feel it unjust if they don't have everything the way they want it, I guess they feel that because they are powerful they shouldn't have to endure the ritual of mate selection . Perhaps these "powerful" people should not only examine their potential or former mates for reasons why their relationships fail but also turn a inquisitive eye upon themselves....I mean there are two involved in a relationship and it usually takes compromise and understanding from both sides to make and create a loving, lasting relationship.

Anyways Marylin, I thought your questions were a little too close to stereotyping and generality. A lot of the questioning seemed rhetorical rather than you proding for insight and its a shame that you didn't first give us your take on why you feel this way or think this is actually the case. In my opinion you started off good by asking "How do men react to powerful women?" and then fell subject to generalizing one side of a subject....though maybe I'm misinterpreting your words and the questioning wasn't really rhetorical...often hard to hear a person's tone in the written word. The last question/sentence is what makes the whole statement seem like a line of rhetorical questioning.

Anyways, thanks for the topic starter, take care,

Trevor

JP
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2 posted 10-08-2000 12:34 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

I wonder if we are making a distinction between "...a confident, self-assured, powerful woman" and a mean, *****y woman.

Many times there is a misconception of power and self-confidence as *****y, just as often there is the reverse - plain ol' mean people mistake themselves for powerful and confident.

To ask why men shy from powerful women is a gross generalization.  I find it difficult to believe that a powerful, self-confident (and loving, hopefully) woman would not be able to find a man who is extraordinarily attracted to her.

I suppose it would also have something to do with the type of men this hypothetical woman is attracted to as well....



Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
JP

Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so.
B. Russell
Brad
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since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


3 posted 10-08-2000 05:04 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I'm going to hold off on my original point here (I was going to talk about speech patterns and the general way that men talk versus the general way that women talk).

If the woman were confident, self-assured, and rich, would JP and Trevor feel uncomfortable in letting her 'bring home the bacon' while the two of you could concentrate on writing?

My answer: I'd marry her in a second. It didn't happen that way of course because love comes first (but wouldn't it be nice to have the material advantage as well?)  

Marilyn,
Would you feel comfortable in the relationship (provided that there was mutual love involved) briefly described above or would you feel taken advantage of?
What particular role would you want the man to have in a relationship?

Hypothetical times are here again,
Brad
White Wolf
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4 posted 10-09-2000 03:59 AM       View Profile for White Wolf   Email White Wolf   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for White Wolf

A confident, self-assured, and powerful woman.  Show me one and I will show you the respect she so rightly deserves.  I have been looking all my life for one.  I found one and she is one of my best friends.  I have found that a woman like this does put up with any crap I present her with and she stands up to me on equal ground.  If I push her, she pushes me back into my place.  I am not looking for her to keep me inline but to show me what power is when my temper flares.  I have been working on it but sometimes I just the @#%$&#$ that takes out his frustrations in a verbal manner.  I am the non violent type who can kill someone with his words.  Anyway I am rambling and have revealed far too much about myself.


The White Wolf
Local Rebel
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5 posted 10-09-2000 11:43 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Is the question -- would a man from Mars be interested in a woman from Mars?  and why or why not?

All I can say is my late fiance was a body builder -- had a double blackbelt-- two degrees (sociology/criminology)-- was a military officer and was one powerful woman -- does that answer the question?
jbouder
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since 09-18-99
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6 posted 10-09-2000 01:07 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Marilyn:

I think things are changing.  I work in the construction/real estate development industry (a VERY male dominated field) but on three, completely separate projects, my main client contacts were female and I don't know of anyone who had a problem with this (male or female).

As for why some men feel the urge to dominate and, incidentally, are disappointed when they fail to dominate a strong woman, I think can be tied closely to way things used to be.  Change takes time but I think we are heading in the right direction.

Jim
Marilyn
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7 posted 10-09-2000 05:57 PM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

Wow...thankyou gentlemen for your responses.  

Trevor....This question comes from my own experience. I have always been the type of woman who has been characterized as strong. I am not someone who holds a great deal of power in the business sense of the word but in my life and in my heart I am very strong.
The powerful I am refering to is the power to deal with what life brings, to be able to overcome obsticles and deal with problems with grace and style. Someone who does not crumble under pressure.

It has been my personal experience that men either keep a safe distance from me or try to take over my life. I'm looking for someone to share dreams and goals with not someone to take over my life.

Does this clarify matters any?

JP....Because I am taking this from my own experience and using myself as an example here..lol..Lets stay away from *****y shall we?? I am not concidered that by anyone who knows me but rather as extremely understanding and good natured.


Brad....would I feel comfortable in a relationship like you discribed providing there is mutual love involved?

Yes I would. I am not restricted to any steriotypical image of a relationship.

What am I looking from a man in a relationship?

I am looking for companionship, understanding, commitment, strength of character. I am looking for a man who is self assured and knows what his goals are. I want someone who knows how to work for something he wants and who knows how to express his feelings (not necessarily through words).

A friend told me once that I was intimidating. This baffled me because I always prided myself on being open minded and friendly. He said it was because I was beautiful (his words not mine), self assured and very tall...lol. He told me that he had wanted to meet me for some time but was afraid to approach and say hello. Only when I walked over to say hello to a mutual friend did he have the guts to introduce himself. This is the kind of thing I am refering to. Nice guy, great friend but was inimidated by me before he got to know me.

It seems to me the men I have met by them coming over and introducing themselves to me have always tried to run over me in some manner. (my ex dominated me)

Where are all the good ones stashed?


White Wolf....It is nice to know that there are men looking for us out there.   One thing though hun, in any life a little crap must fall.


Rebel....So there is hope. Thankyou for sharing it with me.

Jim...Lets hope things are changing. I have my life back again now and do not wish to give it up a second time.  
Trevor
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since 08-12-99
Posts 744
Canada


8 posted 10-10-2000 06:07 AM       View Profile for Trevor   Email Trevor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trevor

Hi Marilyn,

"It has been my personal experience that men either keep a safe distance from me or try to take over my life. I'm looking for someone to share dreams and goals with not someone to take over my life.

Does this clarify matters any?"

Yes it did and thank you.

"Where are all the good ones stashed?"

We're all here in Canada....actually that's untrue, I'm the last one left..soooooo, we'll start the bidding at 1.2 million dollars...anyone?...(crickets chirp in the background)  

Well thanks for clarifying what you meant by your questions. Good luck with your mate selection....how boring and sterile did that sound?....What I meant to say was good luck finding a spawning partner....errrr, wait a sec....here this might be better....good luck with finding a loving caring man with whom you can share your life and all its dreams. I won't be pesimistic (sp?) and say that unfortunately some of us never find love, some grow old and die never knowing such a feeling....instead I'll say I'm sure there is someone out there for everyone. I think finding someone to love and who will return such feelings is something we all deserve.

Take care,
Trevor  
JP
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since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


9 posted 10-10-2000 01:29 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

I was in no way referring to you Marilyn.

I have in my life been able to work for and have work for me, many strong women.  I have a long military background, and have since gone on to work in government offices, etc.

I have found that most of the men who are intimidated by strong women have their own problems with self esteem, and those who know who and what they are, are more than happy to interact with the strong. Those are the same men who are dominating and abusive - as compensation for their own inadequacies or percieved inadequacies.

I have also found that many times, women with self esteem issues who try to believe themselves to be strong, in fact are rude and mean (*****y), this may be the result of never being taught how to be their own person and trying to stretch out and misunderstanding the difference between confidence and nastiness.

It so happens that today, my wife is the bread winner in our family, her job pays the most and we depend on her to survive, personally, I am happy for it (too many years of depending upon myself to carry the world...)  the beauty of this is that she has learned what I have known for many years... one cannot do it on thier own, she is the main source of income, but she cannot run the show without me... that knowledge has given both of us an inner strength and she is much more confident with that knowledge much sexier... (ooops, did I say that?)


Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
JP

Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so.
B. Russell
Lady Lost
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since 07-13-2000
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10 posted 10-10-2000 01:38 PM       View Profile for Lady Lost   Email Lady Lost   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Lady Lost

Based on my experiences:  All of the well dressed, good looking, intelligent, sensitive, and loving men are either:

A) Gay.

B) Married.

If anyone would like to dispute this, feel free to email me with a picture.  lol.

"And I still believe you can never have too much fiction because reality is such a bore..."
- REA
Christopher
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since 08-02-99
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Purgatorial Incarceration


11 posted 10-10-2000 02:40 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Lady Lost - I was going to say my picture is already up there, but then I saw the "intelligent" part... sorry - I came close!  

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited 10-10-2000).]
Lady Lost
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12 posted 10-10-2000 07:44 PM       View Profile for Lady Lost   Email Lady Lost   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Lady Lost

Hey three out of four aint bad.  Besides, I like 'em cute and dumb.  That ususally means the dumb blonde jokes aren't aimed at me.  lol  

"And I still believe you can never have too much fiction because reality is such a bore..."
- REA
Tony Di Bart
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since 01-26-2000
Posts 163
Toronto, Canada


13 posted 10-10-2000 09:32 PM       View Profile for Tony Di Bart   Email Tony Di Bart   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tony Di Bart

Hello

I have entered this late and have already read over what everyone has to say.

"Do they become initimated by them and why is that?"

Weakness is always intimated by power.  Power respects power.  Therfore, weak men are intimated by powerful women. Personally, I do not think that there is anything more sexy.  However, and I forget who said this aleady "there is a fine line between power and being B#$chy."  What is that fine line?

"Do they feel they have to dominate them and why is that?"

I think the whole domination thing is a two way street.Men can only dominate women that let themselves be dominated.  Domination is a form of power, albeit not a very attactive one, it is  
none-the-less a form of power. Therefore, women who let themselves be dominated are in some way, again in a very unhealthy way, attracted to power.  The same question can be posed to you.  Why is it that women in general are attracted to power? ( Do I hear a hornet's nest)

I guess what I really want to know is this. Why is it so hard to find a man who won't either run from you or try to run over you when you are a confident, self-assured,
powerful woman?  

It's Fight or Flight.... (LOL)

I think that we should for argument's sake take out the whole sex thing and state that powerful people either have one of three things happen when they meet other people...

1.  They either have a confrontation.
2.  They either intimidate the other
3.  or they have mutual respect

in any  case how some one reacts to a powerful person has nothing to do with the powerful person and everything to do with the second person. Finally, powerful people generally do not look down on weaker people they accept them, Powerful people who look down on the weak are arrogant.....and lack power in my opinion..........

Thanks See Ya

BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ



[This message has been edited by Tony Di Bart (edited 10-10-2000).]
Horizon
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since 10-04-2000
Posts 53


14 posted 10-10-2000 10:17 PM       View Profile for Horizon   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Horizon

I think a man that is confident in himself has nothing to fear and will treat woman as an equal.  Men who are not will feel they need to out do a woman.  
Ratleader
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15 posted 06-27-2003 11:48 AM       View Profile for Ratleader   Email Ratleader   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ratleader's Home Page   View IP for Ratleader

Ran into this topic while poking around for -- well, I'm not sure what I'm poking around here for.... and wonder what people will say about it in 2003.

As for me, I like 'em....can't stand a leaner.... but there are powerful women, and then there are women who try to act as if they're powerful.

Those do intimidate me, as they intend...and I respond very poorly to intimidation. That's not because I feel a need to dominate, but rather because I feel a need to NOT be dominated.

There are women I know, who will make a wry face and sometimes drop a rude remark within earshot, if I hold a door for them -- and they make it a point to drop doors on men. That's a little thing, but it's a good example..... Guess what I do for those folks, even if they're 50 feet behind me when I open the door? Yep, and I give 'em what passes for a bow, here in America....and when they deliberately drop a door on me, I walk into it with as loud a "Whomp" as I can generate.....

I find ways to do that in response to every single instance in which people act in that way, which in an office setting can take many, many forms.

"I guess what I really want to know is this. Why is it so hard to find a man who won't either run from you or try to run over you when you are a confident, self-assured, powerful woman?"

There are plenty who will, but also some who won't. Like I said above, I hate a leaner, and there are lots of men who think as I do. But -- most men will retreat from a woman who is aggressive about trying to assert power. Some, because they're looking for that pretty, easy mouse, and the rest because they'd rather not put up with something they see as an act, that's intended (whether it IS intended or not) to be hurtful.

"It should be interesting to see what kind of hornets nest this stirs up...lol."

Yep, my sentiments in posting this, exactly....

~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>   ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>  ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº>    ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº>
______________Ratleader______________

jbouder
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since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


16 posted 06-27-2003 04:03 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Apparently this question is as old as time (or at least has been around as long as Mike Myers has been on Saturday Night Live).  

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/89/89jlothar.phtml

[This message has been edited by jbouder (06-27-2003 04:03 PM).]

Kamala
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since 04-17-2003
Posts 66
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17 posted 06-27-2003 06:21 PM       View Profile for Kamala   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kamala

Man oh man... i could go on and on about this topic.  I have always considered myself a strong, powerful, independent woman.  And I have encountered predominantly two things when it comes to men:

1) Those that run away.
2) Those that think they can handle me but really can't.

Only rarely have I found ones that can handle me, and I'm lucky to have such a one right now.  But I HAVE always been frustrated by the phenomenon.  If you're a highly educated, articulate, independent woman, it's just friggin' harder to find a guy.  I totally believe that.  And it's also been my experience that a lot of guys who SAY they want a strong independent woman really don't know what to do with one.  It's such a catch-22.  I honestly don't have any answers.

On the bitchy point -- I think that if you're going to be a strong articulate woman, you have to accept that this label is going to get slapped on to you all the time.  I don't think nearly enough people in the world are used to formidable women.  Not even women themselves.

That all being said... I agree with whoever it was that said we could easily take this out of the realm of gender.  Weak people and dominant people (irrespective of gender) will behave/react in certain ways that aren't necessarily gender specific.

Kamala

[This message has been edited by Kamala (06-27-2003 06:21 PM).]

SEA
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with you


18 posted 06-27-2003 09:29 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

I think if a woman is truly powerful, she will exude it...it will just be well, her. Understated I guess is what I mean.( A person only has power over you, if you give it to them.) I know a woman who tries to appear powerful, and ends up being a real, bitch. Rude, pushy, demeaning, demanding, agressive in situations that don't call for it...all of it...she isn't powerful, she's a bitch. Then there are women, like those I have been fortunate enough to know, that have this quiet aura about them, that you just respect. And they weren't mean, they were, kind, funny, smart, generous, and very very loving. I guess it's all in how you define powerful...

[This message has been edited by SEA (06-27-2003 11:56 PM).]

Ratleader
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19 posted 06-27-2003 09:52 PM       View Profile for Ratleader   Email Ratleader   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ratleader's Home Page   View IP for Ratleader

You're both partially right. If a woman is truly strong, it simply isn't an issue. It doesn't concern her, and it doesn't concern a man she's with unless he's a Casper Milquetoast -- in which case he'll be running, and she'll be glad.

Strength is doing what is needed, and being big enough to accomodate a partner's needs without feeling threatened, rather than insisting that the other person bend to fit our own.

A woman who tries to sell herself as strong is as obnoxious as any other salesman who's only in it for personal profit, and the same applies to a man who tries to project himself as Alpha all the time. We Gammas either cut him in half or laugh and go on about our own business.

Someone suggested the same comments could apply to both sexes....I did that in my first post to this thread.

~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>   ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>  ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº>    ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº>
______________Ratleader______________

Jason Lyle
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since 02-07-2003
Posts 1519
With my darkling


20 posted 06-27-2003 09:53 PM       View Profile for Jason Lyle   Email Jason Lyle   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Jason Lyle

God, I love a powerful woman, hell, I just love power.
Waiting to be broken.

Jason
Ratleader
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21 posted 06-28-2003 12:33 AM       View Profile for Ratleader   Email Ratleader   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ratleader's Home Page   View IP for Ratleader

AND.... I restarted this thread for a particular reason....anybody care to guess what it was?

It has to do with something I mentioned in my first post above, and is most definitely related to the topic....

~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>   ~~(¸¸¸¸ºº>  ~~(¸¸ ¸¸ºº>    ~~~(¸¸ER¸¸ºº>
______________Ratleader______________

quatro
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since 04-29-2003
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22 posted 07-01-2003 06:01 PM       View Profile for quatro   Email quatro   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit quatro's Home Page   View IP for quatro

you wanted to know if peoples opinions have changed in a year?

quatro
Miah
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since 08-26-2002
Posts 1092
Pennsylvania


23 posted 07-02-2003 08:31 PM       View Profile for Miah   Email Miah   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Miah

A secure man or woman would not be intimidated. My boyfriend was attracted to my self confidence.  
Midnitesun
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24 posted 07-07-2003 01:34 AM       View Profile for Midnitesun   Email Midnitesun   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Midnitesun

AND.... I restarted this thread for a particular reason....anybody care to guess what it was?

It has to do with something I mentioned in my first post above, and is most definitely related to the topic
*******************************************


Maybe because you just love hornets?
LOL. I am strong. I am weak. I am woman.
 
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