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Passions in Poetry

We'll fix it with a pill...

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Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
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Purgatorial Incarceration


0 posted 10-03-2000 12:12 PM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Hey -

I was just reading in the Dark forum, when I came upon this topic. It led me to wondering (not for the first time) about society's propensity toward curing mental problems with a pill. Rather than just say society, I should say American society, as I don't know about others.

From experience, it seems that these "doctors" want to give you a pill and call you well. Prescribe some Prozac, and you can pretend you're like everyone else. (Like everyone else is "normal" in the first place.)

I thought, as an analogy, of someone who physically hurt themselves. They too recieve some "pills." But for them, it's to take the edge off, to cope with the pain. Which is a good thing, in both scenarios. But as opposed to what it seems like in the psych field, when a medical doctor gives you a pill (unless there is no "cure") the point is for it to only be temporary, until they can fix whatever is causing the pain and discomfort.

So am I seeing it wrong? Does it seem to anyone else that the goal for mental illness isn't focused so much on getting well as it is on stop-gapping the issues with chemicals?

Chris

[This message has been edited by Christopher (edited 10-03-2000).]
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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Southern Abstentia


1 posted 10-03-2000 12:20 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Well Chris,

I'd read this a few weeks ago so here tis from the Dr. Will site (www.drwill.com)

"A new study has found that drugs do not work better than psychotherapy in the treatment of depression. The results, reported in the current issue of Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics, found that depressed patients respond just as well to psychotherapy as drugs and actually have fewer relapses when they talk things out. These findings are no surprise to therapists, who for years have complained that too many family physicians are offering their depressed patients a quick fix by simply prescribing Prozac. While the drugs do indeed alleviate symptoms and have an important place in treatment, they do not help most patients root out the causes for their mood problems. Research has consistently shown that depression is best treated through a combination of psychotherapy and antidepressant drugs (when necessary). Granted, entering psychotherapy is an expensive and protracted process that most would rather avoid, but we finally have reinforcement that the short-cut to symptom relief is not an adequate solution. The tedious process of uncovering repressed, painful memories and experiences may be hard work, but in the end it can offer longer lasting results and a far richer, fuller engagement with life."

-- so the bottom line is who you talk to...
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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2 posted 10-03-2000 12:23 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Oh... and depending on what the nature of the problem is -- techniques such as EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing) can work wonders -- particularly for those with post traumatic stress disorders such as victims of violent crime or natural disaster.

Run a web search on it -- lots of good info out there

But clearly -- brain chemistry has a lot to do with mental health and drugs are required to treat (or aleviate symptoms of) psychosis
jbouder
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since 09-18-99
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Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


3 posted 10-03-2000 12:56 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Chris:

This is a subject that actually hits pretty close to home.  My oldest son is autistic and my wife and I actually had a run-in with a Department of Education consulting psychiatrist (who never met Donovan, by the way) who refused to recommend certain services to my son until we looked into medicating him.  As a matter of fact, Donovan is doing exceedingly well with applied behavioral analysis and descrete trial training (ABA/DTT) and, to date, hasn't required medication to get where he has gotten.

To be honest with you, Chris, I think much of the tendency to medicate students is budget driven ... medication is a very intrusive treatment but it is also less expensive than hiring professionals to help children deal with their learning disabilities by way of less intrusive means(treatment by psychologists, psychiatrists, behavior analysists, etc.).

Don't get me wrong ... medications play an important role in helping people cope with mental illness ... but I think it is important to try to consider medication as a last resort, rather than a quick fix.

Just an opinion.

Jim
WhtDove
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since 07-22-99
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4 posted 10-03-2000 03:18 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Good question and thoughts Chris.
Medication is important in some cases.
I think for the most part though, it is prescribed to widely and with little thought anymore.  

I know part of it has to do with the kick backs that doc's recieve from drug companies. And now drug companies, are out advertising their own products to the public.
It's a money thing now days I think.
I think the concept of actually looking out for people and their health, has been taken over by greed of money.

Take riddlin (sp) for example. All of a sudden 90% of the kids were diagnosed with ADD and given this medication. Geez, I seriously don't think there that many that needed it. They never suggested that parents discipline their kids, that-that might actually be the problem. NO, just give em a pill.

Frankly I think there are a lot of people on a lot of unnecessary medications out there.

But that's just my opinion.
Brad
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Jejudo, South Korea


5 posted 10-03-2000 06:14 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

90%?

Please let that be an exercise in hyperbole.

If 90% of the children were diagnosed with ADD, the problem would be with the education system, not the individual kids.

I admit I've never been very interested in the Nature/nurture argument (it's always been both) but as Jim and Whtdove have pointed out, it does indeed seem to have real world consequences.

The last time I read anything on the subject, it was an article that disagreed with LR, an article that said all mental health problems can and will eventually be treated on the physical level. I was hesitant to agree with this but it's nice to know that the backlash has begun.

Incidently, in Korea, it is the Americans, Canadians, and other Westerners who avoid medicine as much as possible -- Koreans take various medicines at the drop of a hat. I think they see this as some sort of strange idiosyncrasy on our part.

As for the money issue, I guess the question will always be whether we give it to the psychologists or to the psychiatrists. At the very least, the discussion will continue.

Brad
Erin
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since 06-15-2000
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6 posted 10-03-2000 11:58 PM       View Profile for Erin   Email Erin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Erin

I have had friends that take pills (Prozac). And honestly I dont think that a pill could help, maybe for a little bit but for a long time. My opinion is that I dont believe that this could help. I think it should be more along the lines of doctor help. Not just take this pill and you will be ok.

I just read in a magazine today that these are the drugs that people get addicted to. And supposedly use them for date raping.
Poet deVine
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7 posted 10-04-2000 12:05 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

We have 4 ladies in my area of the department at work. Two of them are on Prozac, one is ready for a nervous breakdown and then there's me. I do think doctors use this drug too much on women as a way to calm us down or get us through menopause!

WhtDove
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since 07-22-99
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Illinois


8 posted 10-04-2000 07:20 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

On days like these I could use one!  
I'm just kidding now.....

Brad yes, I guess 90% is a bit much. Forgive me, I should have said all of a sudden we were flooded with diagnosis of ADD and medication. Seemed every kid I knew was all of a sudden put on this medication! It went way out of control. And the teachers, if the child spoke up, or moved in his chair, was telling parents to get them checked.

This was while I lived in Georgia, and they all went WAY overboard with it.

It's turned into a quick fix kind of world.
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
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9 posted 10-04-2000 10:06 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Throughout my bouts of chemical dependance, I have sought various venues of treatment, and I found it very interesting that while preaching the "stop self-medicating" sermon, they were ready, with Rx pad in hand, to prescribe to me drugs that I found more treacherous than the ones that I was doing...and when I voiced this, I was told to "give it time..."  hmmm....they didn't say that about the drugs that actually faked some happiness for me....and anti-depressants?  Isn't depression a SYMPTOM?  Again, told the doc, I have damned good reason to be depressed---maybe I'm supposed to be depressed after four sexual assaults.
It would be insane if I did NOT have a reaction to that.  

So...I've come to the conclusion that I just may be alright after all, and that all that I've been doing is a natural part of my growth, but I did learn, through therapy, that perhaps, it's not in the best interest of a depressed person, to pour large glasses of a DEPRESSANT---PAIN is a warning that "something" is wrong...and we need to find out what that something is, if we wish to grow...avoidance is not the answer, but it is sometimes humane to alleviate extreme pain, temporarily...but watchful eyes and caution are needed here, and I have found that the best eyes are the ones that look upon you with love...and forgive me for being "trite"---but I do think that is the answer...not for all of course...there are situations where a chemical "jump start" is needed for depression, and of course, when there is an actual chemical imbalance in the body system, a lifetime therapy may be necessary.  

Okay, I'll shut up now, but I will close with a couple of quotes, (as if I have not bored you to death already):

"In every adult there lurks a child--an eternal child, something that is always becoming, is never completed, and call for unceasing care, attention, and education.  That is the part of the human personality which wants to develop and become whole."
---C.G. Jung

(for me personally?  Depression sets in when that process is thwarted, or stopped altogether.)  and...

"We are healed of our suffering only by experiencing it to the full."
---Marcel Proust

(Ouch.  Feel the pain...)

"Instead of heavy duty, try putting yourself on the gentle cycle."
---Anonymous

(My personal fave...grin...)

and last, but not least...

"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."
---Tom Robbins

...peace to all, and love, and thanks for listening.
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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Southern Abstentia


10 posted 10-05-2000 01:00 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

serenity

if you've never looked in to EMDR would you please?  it's worked miracles... really...  

((serenity))
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


11 posted 10-05-2000 11:13 AM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Karen I applause you for seeing it that way.
I do agree with you.

I think a lot of the medication they give out is doing worse damage than the problem in the first place.

For instance, (and I'm not a health nut either), cancer.

Chemo. Our body is sick and trying to fight and rid the body what is making it sick. What does Chemo do? It actually wipes out your immune system! It makes you sick, makes your hair fall out too.

Now, there is something simple, and I think might be so simple it was over looked. Then again, there comes that greed thing again.
Apricot seeds. They have been known in case after case to rid people of their cancer, as long as it was not in the last stages. Or taking them before cancer could attack, has kept the disease away all together.

Doctors who have given these natural seeds have been hounded, and closed down by the FDA for doing it. They've been arrested, their files confiscated, offices torn through. Why? Gee, it's a natural product in which the drug companies can't patent.

I'm not saying at all that chemo can't help, but for instance, my dad was diagnosed with bladder cancer. He started taking these seeds, and went for chemo. When the chemo started absorbing into his system and making him sick, he said that was enough and quit.
Now still taking these seeds, it is gone all together. He has a test every 3 months and it's shown nothing since.

Now you can say it was the Chemo, and it might have helped, but I seriously think that junk does more harm than good.
Christopher
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Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


12 posted 10-05-2000 11:51 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

Ok - so if we're a fair representation of the populace (which I wouldn't really go so far as to say, except for arguement's sake), then why do 'we' allow these doctors to prescribe us medicine as such? If we're aware that these medicines are merely a stop-gap measure and not an end all, then why do we allow it? Is it because we trust them, their education and schooling, that in the back of our minds lies a doubt about the truth of the matter? Or is it because it's easier to use the medication, and use it as an excuse when we fail to medicate ourselves? Can/is this medication a fall-back, a patsy for our own "weak wills?"

Much harder to heal yourself than to blame the doctor?

Hugs S'en - love ya lady!  
serenity blaze
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since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


13 posted 10-05-2000 12:10 PM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

Just wanted to add that every case is unique, and please, people, if you have been prescribed Lithium, take your meds regularly.

Oh...sorry, and to address the added issue, I have noticed, and have spoken to doctors about this---and they told me that their patients simply want something DONE...and that it gives them more satisfaction to walk out of the office with a prescription than to hear, "Maybe you should do some serious "self-inventory", or the all time standard of "Get more exercize."   We are a society of quick fix solutions--and "quick fix"?  ABSOLUTELY, pun intended.  But I agree, that many are intimidated by the "god-like" quality of doctors, but my attitude is, and shall remain, there is no such thing as "doctor's ORDERS"--I consider all I hear as advice, and my personal take on it, is this:  I paid them.  Therefore, they are working for ME.  I'm the boss.  The ultimate responsibility for my well-being is MINE.

and...thanks, Reb, will be looking into that one, as it is a new one on me...and love ya right back Mr. Christopher.

[This message has been edited by serenity (edited 10-05-2000).]
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


14 posted 10-05-2000 11:30 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Karen here you go. This site ought to give you a lot of information.
http://apricotsfromgod.com/
Wesley the Blue
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since 09-02-99
Posts 430
Forest Lake, MN, USA


15 posted 10-06-2000 12:27 AM       View Profile for Wesley the Blue   Email Wesley the Blue   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Wesley the Blue

Interesting topic here.  Ive never had to deal with someone that has had serious mental problems, for which I am very greatfull.  I have however taken psychology at the college level.  The drugs are supposed to (according to my text book anyway) correct chemical imbalances in the body.  Thats not to say that that is in anyway the entirety of the treatment that should be given, just something to treat the symptomes while you find and take care of the underlying problem.  The problem comes in that the patient doesnt want to go through the trouble of rooting out the problem, they just want a quick fix, and the doctor, not wanting to seem incompetent and sent them away telling them that there isnt one, prescribes a drug.  This is similar to the problem with Antibiotics.  People will go to the doctor for a cold, and just to make the patient feel like the doctor did something, they will prescribe an antibiotic.  Which doesnt do anything because antibiotics dont have any affect on viruses like the cold.  I dont remember where I was going with this, but Ill close with what my basic point was.  Drugs are not a solution in of themselves, but part (sometimes) of the entire process of healing.

Keith Mullin

Even in the darkest night, someone will be there holding a candle for you.

 
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