How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Discussion
 Philosophy 101
 Opinions
 1 2 3 4 5 6
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

Opinions

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Elizabeth
Deputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 06-07-99
Posts 7296
America the beautiful


0 posted 08-23-2000 05:39 PM       View Profile for Elizabeth   Email Elizabeth   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Elizabeth's Home Page   View IP for Elizabeth

In the thread started by Lady Lost, Ron pointed out that while everyone is entitled to an opinion, that does not necessarily mean each opinion holds the same weight, and that in the end, the opinions that are "important" to you will be the ones that are similar to yours.

What do you all think?

Elizabeth


Why ME???
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


1 posted 08-23-2000 09:46 PM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Never thought about it that way, but I guess that's right. You'd tend to choose a friend by what they have in common with you, rather than one who has nothing in common at all.

So if you think about it, I guess that statement holds true.
JnR4eva
Member
since 08-07-2000
Posts 380
Bronx, NY


2 posted 08-24-2000 02:27 AM       View Profile for JnR4eva   Email JnR4eva   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JnR4eva

of opinions...
basically i would have to agree with whtdove because its a fact that anything or any person that reinforces our ideas and beliefs and parallels who we are, will be the recipient of a special spot in our minds for that person or 'thing' reminded us...of us    ..but of course i mean its not the case for ALLL situations..but a majority of them    


"my love is my motivation
my love is my inspiration
perception of this poem
is your interpretation"
-- me






[This message has been edited by JnR4eva (edited 08-24-2000).]
Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


3 posted 08-25-2000 08:03 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

Well... can I just say Opposites Do ATTRACT and get away...

regards,
sudhir.

--------

OF COURSE NOT... this is a discussion forum, so open your mouth and talk... blah blah follows... and I would die for a debate... so it might appear... huh?  

Take 1: (this holds till I am convinced that I am wrong  )
Let's start with the following things:
Opinions, defined and understood by me as a way of thought, have to be backed by solid beliefs, sound logic and definiteness towards that end. Each person is entitled to his or her opinion, thats where free thought comes to picture and maybe the weight of each opinion differs. All this is true... but, not because they match with mine. The weight comes from the basis and the logic behind the opinion. That is exactly why we change our opinions. First opinion is based on what one likes, but a second and a third and the final one comes after long debate with confilicting thoughts, and conflicting opinions. Ron's thinking may be based on the simple fact that it is difficult to change the first impression, but that's inertia in the mind, a common condition to have and sustain. Everything changes, but everybody at first opposes change, but later adapt... what does that show... we are willing to change after an after-thought affects the initial way of thought.

Black and white, they conflict yet are mated to each other. Right and wrong are similarly married too. Rose without a thorn is unimaginable, similarly the importance of life without death is null. so we need conflicting opinions to survive. and I think the opinions formed after a lot of deliberations is the one that finds most support, and not the one that's closest to what one feels.

So in conclusion, Majority wins, yes it does, not because most people think that way, but most people have had a chance to deliberate on the minority's opinion, give it a chance and then make a choice...

Trust me I am right! Even if I am not, you will have heard me out and then maybe either form a change of your own opinions or not, but not without thoughts yourself...

Ah! A discussion rules... always... but again too much kills... what says you... oops another topic, somebody wants to start this ?  

THANKS FOR HEARING ME OUT...

some debate for keeping the debate alive, others debate to make their sounds sound stronger, and still others do it for the thrill, and few do it to clarify things, to solve their own deadlocked heads... I wonder which group I belong to...  
JnR4eva
Member
since 08-07-2000
Posts 380
Bronx, NY


4 posted 08-25-2000 03:15 PM       View Profile for JnR4eva   Email JnR4eva   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JnR4eva

WOW...ok hi sudhir    we have talked and discussed before about thinking deeply and of natural instintcs...well kinda for the latter....however i think for this one im going to challenge what you say...i hope that you read this too lol....

Of a premise too strong....
     as I was reading your argument something in me was saying no...something just doesn't seem right..or rather the argument is 'unsound'....i think I got the impression when I read the first line...

"Opinions, defined and understood by me as a way of thought, have to be backed by solid beliefs, sound logic and definiteness towards that end" (sudhir)

as i have read your definition of an opinion, i have gotten the impression that this is the definition of a fact, or a theory or theorem.  opinions need no basis of sound logical proof... an educated opinion yes..but not of ALL opinions...how can i tell?..well lest take for instance this counterexample :
..the nazi..his beliefs and ideas are all constructed around hate and hyped propaganda...these are the elements which  have formed his beliefs and in turn his opinions...he looks for a mate to which he can share a life with..lets say he goes to a pub where there are  nazi supporting people and he meets two woman..one who is a nazi supporter..and another who challenges nazi beliefs (though i have no idea why she would be in this pub in the first place!!!! lol)
prima facie....the one with the conflicting ideas has given him a hard time as she disagrees with his beliefs and they in turn just can not get together...however he talks to the one who honors his beliefs for she holds the same ideals and they have a good time overall...they are better matched for each other b/c there was a general consensus independent on the rational used to achieve this agreement!!!!
    but do u see the problem  that this example brings up with ur idea...its the fact that u need sound logical proofs to determine an opinion..if u wanted to u can challenge this nazi all day and night..yet he will not change his beliefs based on moral obligations and others opinions!!... u need proofs to determine facts .. but not of all opinions.....what does this mean..well i read your work and you have in general described an educated hypothesises..but not of general opinions....as u have stated..."

so we need conflicting opinions to survive. and I think the opinions formed after a lot of deliberations is the one that finds most support, and not the one that's closest to what one feels."  (sudhir)

this statement holds true for the educated people of this world..yet what of those who are not as educated ..does this mean that their opinions are no longer valid?  but who is to say now that the educated opinion is valid in itself other than general consensus among the those who agree?   i will agree that of educated opinions u are right..but sometimes even those who are educated will allow personal experiences be the cause of their opinion...and u also have to realize that not everybody does this..thoguh many are educated..not everybody will always base opinions on educated assertions...so when Ron says on general..we will remember those that reflect what we believe and hold them dear..it is somewhat to truth for that is how many of our mentalities work..as for u sudhir i would say yes when we are faced with a challnged..but a good friendly challenge like this one and not the nazi's challenge... then yes u might remember it..but would u hold it dear?..hmmm makes one think.  

I hope this made sense  


"my love is my motivation
my love is my inspiration
perception of this poem
is your interpretation"
-- RLT

Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


5 posted 08-26-2000 05:52 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

Well, I am sort of short of time right now...

but I think if I were to stand by my points for a few more days atleast  , I would state this:
Nazi and nazism concept of hatred for other races was a minority concept that needed to work for them but didnot for the others. Suddenly the rest of the world (atleast to my perception) got 'educated' (though it might have taken some time to gather the 'education', Poland etc was lost before others got really interested)...
Morover a believer in nazism was "driven" not by thoughts on plain level, but by a force that benumbed the chance of any follower to hold an opinion, but those outside the realm of that force could form a better opinion ... and the rest is history...

secondly... I believe every opinion is almost certainly an educated opinion, for each person bar a very few have a working mind and always churn some thought processes before forming a clear opinion... first opinions are often hazardous risky guesses... education comes after an interval maybe to some, but then opinions are subsequesntly changed...

..
..
errrr... sound logic is perhaps a relative term...   gosh, everything is so relative...

and we are all relatives here at passions...

(more later, when the weekend disappears and my thinking mind comes back to place... I have ordered my head to rest... but it doesn't want to sleep...)  

regards and thanks,
sudhir
JnR4eva
Member
since 08-07-2000
Posts 380
Bronx, NY


6 posted 08-27-2000 03:48 AM       View Profile for JnR4eva   Email JnR4eva   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JnR4eva

Hi once again...I know u said that u will get to this topic later but just wanted to say something really quick...

Moreover a believer in nazism was "driven" not by thoughts on plain level, but by a force that benumbed the chance of any follower to hold an opinion, but those outside the realm of that force could form a better opinion ... and the rest is history...(sudhir)

(in all actuality i only used the nazi example as a counter example....i will try to think of another one later)
...OK sudhir..i read this line and i said cool and true..it is true...but here is my question...an opinion is an opinion which is an opinion...despite the fact that his beliefs have been inculcated to the nazi which in turn would result in a very closed minded person....does it now make it an opinion of a lesser degree..or does it by chance make it an invalid opinion?....i would go with the former as you have stated yourself that...

but those outside the realm of that force could form a better opinion (sudhir)

Better opinion?  This would imply then that the nazi does hold an opinion...but not a strong one..but that's ok b/c I was simply trying to get at is that all opinions are not needing of strong premise..the fact that he has an opinion is quite enough..

...And this actually makes me wanna question this a little.....

Moreover a believer in nazism was "driven" not by thoughts on plain level,(sudhir)

tell me what you think sudhir as i have allowed my mind to wonder...but if u sit and think of it a little bit more..what is it  to be on a plain level? we are all brought up in many different ways...and when it comes to opinions we have to respect that fact as well....to come from a plain level would suggest that we all should come from viewpoint X...  yet both u and i both know that we do not come from viewpoint X...we have many different factors that make us, US ... and therefore our opinions are coming form biased perspectives.  so to say a plain level..well in mathematical terms that would mean that we must agree that 1+1 = 2...yes. but this isn't a pure and rigid science..this is about subjective opinions base on subjective values and facets of person X's life....and not to mention but to person X they may believe that their reasoning IS quite sound and thoroughly argued well for...while person Y may think the contrary and states that their reasoning is sound and well argued for...but which one is better?

like i guess here is another example....

here we have a janitor (a female) with 8 kids..and then we have a mathematician (a female) with 1 kid ..they both run into each other and discuss about marriage..and what would make a good husband, when is it a good date to plan a wedding and so forth...yet their views are totally conflicting..the janitor may say her daughter needs a man who will provide..while the mathematician will say her daughter needs a husband who will  love her..both have good reasoning to back up their respective opinions..yet is one of those a better opinion?  

....maybe i have gone overboard?..it is late and i guess I'm rambling now...can't wait to hear from you again.  sorry if this is going a bit off the tangent.... just reply to what u can and take your time..i have written a lot when i claimed i wanted to say something quick lol



"my love is my motivation
my love is my inspiration
perception of this poem
is your interpretation"
-- rlt




[This message has been edited by JnR4eva (edited 08-27-2000).]
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Discussion >> Philosophy 101 >> Opinions Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors