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Passions in Poetry

Thoughts on the thought process...

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Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


0 posted 08-08-2000 05:18 AM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

Friends,

Jim (jbouder) suggested me to visit this forum and sort of spread my wings, and I have heeded to his advice.  

Part 1:
Thoughts - they are like double-edged swords...

Should we let thoughts swim into deeper oceans or should we curtail ourselves from thinking deep?

I say the first choice is natural to have and adds creativity and a meaningful flow in our lives but how much of it is enough?

Is there a definte "enough" value for that?

I think not. One can let thoughts swim as long as he wants to... but once in deep waters is this as uncontrollable as a tornado that simply has to live its 'life'?

I will just give you an example of some swimming of thoughts with one of my quite recent poems... posted in open 8...

...Me, A Frog and A Well...

Me:
    Sitting by a well, I let thoughts swim,
    Played about with a croaking frog;
    Dropped a pebble just to tease him,
    (Effects shown, maybe of too much grog.)

    Felt funny as I heard the frog speak,
    Saw his tongue give his lips a few licks;
    With croaked tones and nasal sounds,
    He spoke, drawing circles all around.

The Frog:
    Am I smart or trying to be a smart thing?
    Am I thinking or pretending to be thinking?
    Am I an inane soul with a hole like a creep?
    Am I an ugly-skinned slime with ego too deep?

    A self-important and haughty frog,
    That's perhaps exactly what I am,
    In my own darkened tunnel, I hog -
    Into these walls, this head, I ram.

    My world evolves all around me
    My world lives deep within me
    My world is a me-centred universe,
    Your world is just one in reverse!

    And all you men are from Mars
    Maybe your women from Venus!
    But leave me with my stars,
    And let me be alone thus.

    I don't care if your earth goes around the sun,
    Or if my moon goes around your earth for fun,
    My world is this most important place, you call, well,
    In it, with waterlilies and flies, I'll prevail.

Me Again:
    I had to stop dropping pebbles,
    As many questions came popping by,
    Making me feel queasy and feeble,
    With each posing a puzzle too high.

    I wonder if there are parallel universes!
    Maybe the frog in his own way is right
    If this well is his sole existing universe,
    Then my abode becomes a superset, right?

    One thought to another as usual did lead,
    If my universe's a well to another being
    Then this thought to him would amply feed
    That his world's a superset of my own being!

    Soon I felt overpowered and totally subdued
    The Milky Way was my well, I had construed
    Mars and Venus were excuses to please the eye
    The Earth was my resting stone - the frog was I.

..........
This takes me to a more complex
Part 2:
Are there parallel universes?
- Scientifically speaking? and
- Philosphically speaking?

------------
My regards and thanks to all who join this discussion.
My many regards to those too who read this and continue to debate in their own "worlds"

Sudhir
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


1 posted 08-08-2000 09:33 AM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

Whew! a discussion with a frog! Parallel universes??? perhaps... yes perhaps....

i'll have to think about this....i will come back after i go through the thought process...

good to see you in this discussion forum... clearly, you will be an asset  
WhtDove
Member Rara Avis
since 07-22-99
Posts 9561
Illinois


2 posted 08-08-2000 10:09 AM       View Profile for WhtDove   Email WhtDove   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit WhtDove's Home Page   View IP for WhtDove

Hmmm, some good questions here! Should we stop deep thought? I don't think so. It widens and expands the mind to think. Seeing as how we use so little of it anyway, it tends to start and use that grey matter we have up there.

We'll all wonder of things we don't really know the answers to. Maybe it's a way to make us dig for the answers to those unanswered questions!?

As far as our universe, I'll just say what I know God has said. He made Earth to be inhabited. I don't think there is something else or someone else there that we're going to find.  As for why we have all these planets, set in perfection, that is beyond me.  

But daydreaming is a part of most people, and it's healthy. It keeps our imaginations going. As to think deep, it takes our minds off the mundane.  
Kit McCallum
Administrator
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since 04-30-2000
Posts 16920
Ontario, Canada


3 posted 08-08-2000 01:27 PM       View Profile for Kit McCallum   Email Kit McCallum   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kit McCallum

Aaahhh Sudhir ... you have made me think deeply on this. While I exit to ponder, I will leave you with this Confucius style query:

If one's thoughts are not deep ... does that in turn, make one shallow?  

     If so ... I'm in trouble most days!      
Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


4 posted 08-08-2000 01:57 PM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

Doreen,
I will await your coming back to this well...
and talking about assets is that ASS ETs (to be read as extra-terrestrial donkeys )  

Kit,
"shallow" is a very relative term ... to various states of minds... and human actions...
being shallow is being cowardly, selfish and lot of those things as well...
not thinking deep is but a matter of choice.

There are (at least there must be) certain areas where the mind's thinking process does not work (like love and emotions to one's loved ones, I should never need to think if I should be loving or not, for there is only one answer to that), and hence should not be undertaken... ... ...   make any sense?
please do come back soon  

WhtDove,
part 1: I am in agreement.
Part 2: quoting you: I don't think there is something else or someone else there that we're going to find.  As for why we have all these planets, set in perfection, that is beyond me.  
going by your answer to part 1,
this is a bit ambiguous. Deep thinking does not allow us to admit that there is a perfect conclusion to thoughts (and reality as well). So the thought process strives adn pushes us to think that there is always something new to achive, to find, to discover, to learn... else we would be stagnated and as we all know
Change is the essence of things. That's probably how the idea of God and Godliness has evolved in all the generations before and should continue to do so in the generations to come. ....
for now, I would rather keep God out of this and talk on the philosphy of thoughts... because God is another subject and far too intricate to be discussed in a general fashion... (I believe)

Now the 'thank you's...

Thank you Doreen, WhtDove and Kit for setting the ball rolling, I hope that this thread proves to be expansive to all of us participating...

as I await your reactions and more participants,
I offer you my ever present regards,
sudhir.
JnR4eva
Member
since 08-07-2000
Posts 380
Bronx, NY


5 posted 08-10-2000 12:34 AM       View Profile for JnR4eva   Email JnR4eva   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JnR4eva

my background in Philosphy only stems from one introductory semester.  However I feel as if I should tackle these issue b/c I am very interested in making it a double major.  So if what i say seems juvenile...well it is lol  
      
of thinking in deep thoughts...
   it is without a doubt that we all should go into the depths of thought, however is it limitless and is there "enough" despite the fact that it may induce pain and get crazy?  when it comes to pain should that be the limit?  
     those are my questions.  i have to think of characters who support skepticism..names such a Descartes and David Hume...these men shall by all regards be put into the category of those who have been in deep thought...but what if a thought caused one to deny thier own existence, as it did?    That only the self existed...such a thought is terrible but it is very real and very possible.  
    i would claim that descartes, a reknowned philospher, was in deep thought. yet was his belief in such an incrimanating thought the product of testing deep waters? or perhaps his LOCATION within this sea?
    i would argue it was his position in this sea...u see they are are many catgories such as romanticism, skeptism, idealism etc., which he could have swam in, yet it was into skeptism where he almost drwoned.  yet love works the same way.  if we swam into deep waters of love and went to the part where couples are no longer, would we not feel pain too?  as descartes did feel pain when he could no longer trust the real world? did descartes have "too much" deep thought? skepticism in itself is so negative. maybe being in the shallow parts alone is even "too much"...who is to say that some parts of the sea are more shallower and deeper than others.  so it seems that the rate of "enough" might change depending on where u are located.  
     but this proposes new questions....should we NOT go into these waters?  to avoid all displeasure?
it is such a tough call and is based on purely subjective experiences to the individual.. but would this further imply that we should be ignorant, for the satisfaction of happiness?...or for the satisfaction of a false and perceived happiness? is that wrong in itself to live in a lie? or to want to live in a lie?  wow i have gone off on a tangent! lol    
          
is it limitless?
    notice how they are already divisions within this sea...skepticism, romanticism...this would further imply then that this sea is limitless because who is to say that we can not divid it infintely many times.  Can not idealism be a divided into skeptism?  i believe so.  so yes, this sea of deep thought is limitless with one exception( and there might be exceptions to the exception as well)...we can not test waters of the unknown to mind.  what we think are products of things which are real...or a colloboration of many real things...for instance a gold mountian does NOT exist in the real(and sane) world but it can be thought of because it is the idea of Gold and Moutain put together. so yes it is limitless with a neighboring sea which is totally not attached. lol
    well those are my arguments and anybody who is reading and perhaps is more leanred on this may think its a lil silly what im saying but i just wanted to test these waters    i would love to hear back from you sudhir..i hope i didnt bore you lol   and anybody else please...i would learn from my mistakes.  


JnR4eva
Member
since 08-07-2000
Posts 380
Bronx, NY


6 posted 08-10-2000 01:26 AM       View Profile for JnR4eva   Email JnR4eva   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JnR4eva

it turns out that i forgot about the parallel universe concept...the truth is that i know very little about this topic and  i wouldnt know where to begin but i'll try to think up some train of thought ..lol

     well first i have to ask what exactly is to be parallel ?..to have similarites yet be completely different? that is my understanding...so then let us think of the human's life and how he functions...he does what is necessary to live, and reproduce, and as a added feature...we are given the ability to think and to love and have so many emotions and much more  
     however lets take the life of a frog whom swims in a well...assuming he has everything in oreder to live, he too functions to survive, to reproduce yetlets assume he can not think....then here we have a descrepency however there are enough simliarities to claim that our life, from a very objective standpoint, can be compared to that of the frogs....thus causing a parallel..but how can i argue for the parallel universe?
    well i can only do so by assuming that he knows that he(the frog) is a thinking entity( but now im contradicting myself!!)... if that is the case then what he can know is the world around him...a cylinder(which is the well) and the space(which is the light and skies which surround his well).  his knowledge of the outside extends only but so much... similarly as our knowldege of our space! thus we have in fact a parallel universe for he is a subset of our life.

...but the only probelm im having is the assumption that the frog is a thinking entity...i mean i doubt that frogs think the way we do or more than we can!...but then this is bringing up a new question...what if thier is something that is far more superior than our thinking...then it WOULD be the case of having parallel universes or NOT b/c then we would be primitive with respect to thier knowledge ...  that our life would be a subset of theirs, and the frog's a sub set of ours? (this line of reasoning goes on infinitely!!!)
     .....BUT who is to say the whole concept of the parallel universe is real?  that it is only a thought of mind?  that the parallels are only but ideas and not reality? granted that there are some parallels with us and a frog...but what takes place within a human and thier life will far surpass a simple frog..would it not? i would think so...
    so its like im asking whether or not we can base parallel universes on only but a few similarites?  are our lives not totally separate?  its fine that we have some similarities lets say to a greater world but to say that we are but a subset of that grander life?...why can we not say we have, and that there exist, similarites, but our lives and how we live are TOTALLY separate?  why should it be the case that we are a subset of a bigger life, other than the fact that this is all but an idea in the head, and not a reality?

ok im sorry but i guess i asked way toooo many questions.  like i said if this line of thinking seems juvenile is because i have no real knowldege of this stuff...but i would love to hear what u have to say...sorry for the length once again    thank u and sorry about the grammar but i didnt want to correct every line..there are too many lol  
Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


7 posted 08-10-2000 12:13 PM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

JnR4eva

...I will be back soon on this one...
Thanks for joining in

regards
sudhir
brian madden
Member Elite
since 05-06-2000
Posts 4532
ireland


8 posted 08-10-2000 04:50 PM       View Profile for brian madden   Email brian madden   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brian madden

Hi Sudhir, you know anything involving thought processed will get my attention. Where to start I have a million thoughts but I fear they will lead off in tangents. Firstly I need to organise my thoughts. OK, here goes. I am considered a deep person. Though I don't exactly know what it means. Does it mean I think too much. I consider myself to be a person who will analysis things a lot, certain things, I am not however a cross word person, my brain seems to abandon me when I even attempt a cross word and I don't consider myself to have a high powered brain. As you can see my thought process is not quite linear, LOL ok I will try to start making sense now. I consider myself perceptive though internally perceptive, I analysis myself there for I think I miss a lot of the outside world. I am almost like a social recluse at times. LOL. I think inside of everyone there is a universe, a huge place that needs to be explored. This is my little playground.

I think with deep thought it is like exercise, exercise is good excessive exercise is bad. Then there is water thoughts and whiskey thoughts. Water thoughts are healthy sometimes whiskey thoughts are good but too much is bad. Whiskey thoughts, as in, thinking about painful thoughts. They need to be addressed and dealt with not pondered over again and again. Using these thoughts to torture yourself is bad.

I believe that the mind is a powerful asset when used correctly. This is a vast subject you have put forward for us. Everything stems from perception. What we perceive is our reality. This effects our thought process

"A frog, it can not comprehend the sea nor me happiness" Paul Draper.  

Our thought processes are central to our existence. We are self/aware therefore we exist. Question is what are we? We have turned to religions for guidance and understanding. Imagine if there was no God, no sense of purpose or direction. We would have anarchy not the haven John Lennon sang about. This is a corner stone is our society. You have to wonder how Dolphins view the world? We have a greater understanding of the world and yet they live in peace, have no wars and don't kill or hate each other. Simplicity is key, the bear of little brains (Winnie the Pooh) was perfectly happy. In concluding each person much chose their thoughts and shape their world with these thoughts as they see fit.  May I add a few questions of my own,

"What is sanity? Can society deem a person insane if they fail to follow the majority?

"Is everyone happy?"

"Can we make our thought processes accept certain things?"

"If we stare too deep within ourselves will we drown?"

" What is logic? Surely my ideology defines my view of logic"


"To the centre of the
city where all roads
meet, waiting for you,To the depths of the ocean where all hopes sank,
searching for you," Joy divison
JnR4eva
Member
since 08-07-2000
Posts 380
Bronx, NY


9 posted 08-10-2000 09:27 PM       View Profile for JnR4eva   Email JnR4eva   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JnR4eva

sorry to say but its me again lol     actually this one is not long.  

of bad thoughts...

I was reading on what Brain Madden had to say about bad thoughts.  I think, to some extent, he has been able to resolve the issue of bad thoughts as he claimed, " They(bad thoughts) need to be addressed and dealt with not pondered over again and again".  It certianly does suggest that bad thoughts are not to be taken and manifested 20 times over for that would, or possibly, lead to a demise of the mind, heart, and health of the individual.  I like the idea but then again with out the pondering of such bad thoughts, we(humans) would be, like Sudhir said, stagnant with our thinking.  Surely to think of only GOOD thoughts is ideal, but not realistic.  There are many of us who are compelled to think of these bad thoughts b/c of various reasons.  There are many of us who would rather sit and ponder rather than resolve instantaneously.  With time we may look forward to resolving an issue but we must be able to accept the bad thought first as is and THEN try to find a remedy.  
    With that said I am not sure if this makes MUCH sense as the others do not but I hope it provided some insight and thank you to Brain Mdden for his remark.  
  
   oh sorry madden but i have to say this b/c it was such a big issue in my philo class....ASSUMING that there does not exist a demon who puts thoughts into our heads, then can we be sure that we exist when we think.  lol im osrry for bringing that up but it was such a heated topic in my class lol
    oh yea..about ur simplicity comment...what u say is true to some extent and it brings back my questions about whether we should be ignorant for the satisfaction of happiness?.... well granted that winnie the pooh was living a happy life, that is good for him...but why can not a learned person, a person who understands and comprehends so much knowledge, be just as happy as winnie the pooh?  granted that he is aware of the negative aspects of life, but can not take those negative aspects and help to form and harden his happiness with knowledge that he has and the beliefs which he lives by?  i would think so.  it is very much possible anyway.  but then again maybe im wrong..it was nice having such a discussion and once again i hope that i havent bored any of you, or spoke incoherent speech    thanks  
jbouder
Member Elite
since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


10 posted 08-10-2000 09:31 PM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Sudhir:

Not ignoring you ... just pressed for time.  I'll be back.

Jim
Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


11 posted 08-11-2000 12:20 PM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

Well this might turn out to be a long post here, but I have been well fed with lots of thoughts here...

JnR4Eva:
Initial impression of your words is YOU SWIM DARN WELL   juvenile... thats just a state of the mind... and keep that with you as long as possible...

So I see you in agreement with the direction of my train of thoughts...

you feel that we should keep our foray into deep thinking as far as we can think and there is no end to the expanse of the sea... and you state "we can not test waters of the unknown to mind".

I agree, we cannot test the unknown, but can / should we stop ourselves of thinking in terms of improbable (this is also relative to each individual) events and entities? I cannot be sure of an answer to this question and thats where the thoughts run amok... but the beauty is in not having all the answers...

one thing to say there for the first part: it is not being ignorant if one does not enter the waters of another sea or simply stays afloat to survive without actually fighting the waves, it is just a mater of choice. It is a choice of how comfortable the self is with the need of questioning and so on...

now continuing to the next part:
On to the thinking frog: The frog thinks, he has to... every being has to... how deep, how much, how differently are various other issues. His thinking is sort of blocked by the walls of the well, he has around him. Maybe he would think how he came into being, or how he evolved. Maybe he has his own "scientific" explanation for this... Same as man has different explanations for his own "existence"... Man builds imaginary walls around his mind... thinking in terms of what he has defined as his boundaries... soon encapulating himself and alienating and detaching himself and his ideas from the rest of the universe (or universes if I may use the term)... His water and his well is the result of limitation that he has imposed upon himself and so on... so we find similarities between the frog and the man... for the frog the man might not even exist, because he doesnot affect his life (except when he kills the frog by taking the water out of the well etc... as a perceivable threat in this case much too similar to how we project beings from outer space to be in our ficticious movies and books only britney spears is an exception here OOPS! I did.... blah)... taking sense to a different platform, I could imagine or allow myself to imagine that there could be another set of "people" who we do not see as we see the frog (being a tangible see-able object).. like the invisible man for instance   ... I think you get the way of thought by now...

yes these are only creation of a mind as of now, but how can anybody disprove it... by another chain of thoughts... right? possibly right...

expanding on the thoughts to a very different scenario... people do not want to accept parallel universes because of certain fear felt possibly and also because it is not seen... I might enter into difficult waters now... but believe me nothing derogatory here only a questioning attitude...
Fear - fear of God... fear that in that parallel universe maybe there is a superior God of gods hence belittling our own God or gods... fear of losing the belief that we are the brightest beings in the world (most innovative... "ego bursting" as I would call it) fear of being negligible suddenly upon the confirmation of that... fear of fearing too...
Talking about seeing, I have never seen God... I don't think anyone has... but then this is the power of supreme belief in a spiritual superbeing...  that helps us overcome the fears that we have in our heads... One "sees" the results of scientifically (as of now) unexplainable events and attributes it to the "unseen" hand of God... as for the creator, human mind tends to think about beginning and end to everything... so there has to be a creator and hence the relevence and reverence to God being creator... No I am not trying to argue for God or against... Thats not the issue... but there are people who (the church from a few centuries ago is one such example) do not want inventions and disciveries to be made for they fear thet all that they believed in would be suddenly negated... like the fact that earth does in fact go around the sun and not the other way around... a bit more serious... and hence the thought process is curtailed by the fear of being wrong, some fear of some another fear... I can see a certain trend there... so I stop here and leave you with these thoughts ...

the part 1 and part 2 are linked because deep thought makes us imagine improbable (again, I repeat this is relative) events and entities like parallel universes.. etc.. so should we not think in those terms... should we restrict ourselves...
My answer is no, we should keep thinking as much as we can, and there is no end to that...
For we can't prove an idea if you don't have an idea in the first place...we think about the possibility of that idea itself...

and so on...

lets see if I change from that stance soon...  

regards,
sudhir

Brian see you in the next post in a couple of minutes...  
Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


12 posted 08-11-2000 12:56 PM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

Okay I am back after s short coffee break... thoughts coming like a hurricane now at a snail's pace....   Is that called contradiction? maybe, who cares not this guy who like to roll  

----
Well Brian...
I hope you could come in and you did it and in soem style too... but unfortunately I seek to disagree on certain points from you... lets see how and what of it hmm  

How can one figure out what is an excessive thought? anything that does nopt fit the scope, possibly - but scope of WHAT? Excessive exercise is possibly noticeable by weighing it physical strains... but the mind , is exertion visible as splitting of hairs     maybe somebody is termed lunatic (I will come to that later)

Thought of a thought of a thought ... and the spiral around it is what one might consider to be torture... yet not clearly definable... but I presumably understand what you are trying to say... one should not kill oneself by thoughts or maybe one should not think just for the sake of thinking... But there are certain people who are 'driven' to thinking... They think to live and live to think as well...  

You have highlighted the exact FEAR that I was trying to explain... IF not for God... etc. My take on the subject is quite vagrant to an extent but I still believe that:
Religion had been constructed to make society exist with moral guidelines and moralistic values. The inclusion of God in that school of thought was necessary to preserve the sanctity of the religion on one hadn and also to possibly keep an entity for unexplainable(due to lack of expertise or will to explore or any other reason) events
and so on... Yes God has a very important place (a corner stone as you say, but for a differently understood reason in my mind) in our lives and perhaps should be, but there are people "driven" by thoughts of God and that ceases to be moralistic anymore... (thats another discussion, maybe you or someone else can start a topic)

Talking about dolphins and peace and so on... it is an animal instinct to conquer over other beings, be it for sport or for food... After all survival is the key. Can one stop eating food because it creates some beings to die... No. The perception of survival can be extended to various levels... still Wars are not justifiable at all, yet most of them were fought for land and/or religion.. how sad? Whose land? what land and which religion and who's God?... but maybe this can also be excused by extreme chauvinists to be the force of an "unseen" hand... or a "flawed" creation or in sarcastic terms a computer bug of the creator of a program called Life, Earth, Beings and their existence... and I can tell that this is a very bad excuse, as you will agree...

Winnie the Pooh is simple to us, but to him, in his world, is he simple? Answer that one and you have answered all my questions...
.....
I hope I have made some sense in all this... sincerely hope...

JnR4Eva:
about your last remark... maybe a learned man will learn the truth behind the shadows, the reason of darkness adn of light... and its said TRUTH HURTS.... maybe thats the FEAR... that keeps people from exploring new seas of thoughts...

Thanks for swimming wih me, brian and JnR4Eva...

regards to you both...
Sudhir


[This message has been edited by Sudhir Iyer (edited 08-11-2000).]
Sudhir Iyer
Member Rara Avis
since 04-26-2000
Posts 7206
Mumbai, India : now in Belgium


13 posted 08-11-2000 01:07 PM       View Profile for Sudhir Iyer   Email Sudhir Iyer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sudhir Iyer

Brian:
This is separated because of the questions that you have put...

"What is sanity? Can society deem a person insane if they fail to follow the majority?

Precedence and history suggests that a society can and has been doing so...
but one can wish to learn from history and deem otherwise... is that a good answer?  

"Is everyone happy?"
No. Everybody has his/her own reasons to be unhappy. Everyone thinks   so is never happy... no thats not true... perfection once achieved will rule out any more growth, and that will be a loss of aim... so nobody is content, for there is always more that is desired... and I blah on....

"Can we make our thought processes accept certain things?"
We already do that... acceptance of others opinions, accptance of life's "hard" facts... acceptance of sadness associated with death (for instance)... Existence of God (or Not for non-believers)... are all making the mind believe in a certain entity...

"If we stare too deep within ourselves will we drown?"
Maybe we will, maybe we will not. Has anybody tried? Maybe, Maybe not... that is my question too(in other words), is it not?

" What is logic? Surely my ideology defines my view of logic"
perception and logic are often related.. one thing follows another follows another and this building up of things (starting from assumption, belief or fact) is logic... but what is logical to one is maybe illogical for another...


Well, thats for me thinking overtime...

regards to all once again,
Sudhir.
P.S. (this is along P.S. he he he)
JnR4Eva, you mention that you are a philo student.. I wish you good luck. As for me, I have had NO class in philosophy at all... all this you see only is a result of swimming against currents ... and a lot of blah blah blah  

Jim,
Take your time, my friend, I will be here...

No cause for hurry at all....

To everybody else,
If all this thinking 'hurts' please join in with your thoughts... and give your opinion...

Oh! How I love this place. I can get away with   like a crazy nut and   like a lunatic....

Thanks guys and ladies...
JnR4eva
Member
since 08-07-2000
Posts 380
Bronx, NY


14 posted 08-11-2000 01:13 PM       View Profile for JnR4eva   Email JnR4eva   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for JnR4eva

     Well sudhir I will not bog you down with anymore novel-length questions lol.  For the most part you helped to shed some light on some of my questions such as the ignorance and the parallel universe questions.  However I will be inclined to think and elaborate on that more and more, but on my own time of course lol.  
     It was great having this discussion and I look forward to the next topic that is at hand in philosophy 101  

Oh and thank you for catching up on my latest poem  
monique
Member
since 02-03-2000
Posts 377
Louisiana


15 posted 08-13-2000 03:37 AM       View Profile for monique   Email monique   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for monique

This month I am having the pleasure of having some tadpoles in a little swimming pool and every day i take a look to see if i can catch them becoming toads. It seems to take forever.  

Thinking too much about nothing and everything can drown your mind into nothingness
Thinking too much can drive one crazy,
depress, to the point of suicide
We think to keep us company
But is our thought a good friend?
Or a destructive companion?

I am parallel with the universe when i lye down at night
i am horizontal with the universe when i stand up in the morning
I was one with the universe once a long time ago
Scientifically the space ship leaves the earth horizontaly
Scientifically the automobile drives parallel with the earth

Philosophically i don't know what i am talking about i am just trying to be funny to hide my ignorance

I am just a country girl in a big city
who just wanted to grow food
to taste the salt of the earth
I have become a city girl
I am spoiled
I have to suffer to know the blues
In my world crying for deliverance
O death come quick
Because too many people are going crazy
To the point of war
Killing people
I do not understand war
I want peace
Where is peace
The world seems to go to polution
Too much garbage
Wasting TRee like it's garbage
Some country do not have tree burning the fire to warm them up
If we would be in that situation
Would we think a lot
Why do i live?
Or would i be looking for food

We have so much here
That we do not know what it is not to have

I do not understand their will  to go on in life
I have all the comfort of things
And i want to die i have had enough
Of this life on earth
Why can't we just die and get it over with
why do we have to go on
In a fug full of question
Why do we exist?

I have this need to worship
And i have worshiped the wrong thing or person
I need to worship the ONE that loves me

Sorry i am going to far
I will stop right here
Because i need to shup up
I think too damn much
Forgive my language
But i heard this blues song
That goes like this
"Woman you talk too much
Woman you talk too damn much"
Sung by Little Ray Neal just last week
At his dad's place

And you know he's right

Good Night everyone
You know the tadpoles start to have back legs


monique the invisible person
i did not write this
i just made it all up
i am not crazy yet
maybe tomorrow i will
for good
and who will take care of my handicap children
that bugs the hell out of me
to the point of hating the creator
ok good night
here i go again talking
i better go before
I put my foot in my mouth
Or did i already do it?

By the time i leave, off this story
it will be morning
so i better say good night
before it's morning

Bonne Nuit


monique again




[This message has been edited by monique (edited 08-13-2000).]
monique
Member
since 02-03-2000
Posts 377
Louisiana


16 posted 08-13-2000 03:58 AM       View Profile for monique   Email monique   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for monique

I forgot to mention
That when i start thinking so much
My husband calls it the masturbation of the mind
He is a believer in Christ Jesus
So everything is more simple, to believe

I make it complicated
So i can sin
By
Acting ignorant of the law of the universe
So
I
Can "do it my way"
Doesn't Frank Sinatra sing a song with those words?

monique
monique
Member
since 02-03-2000
Posts 377
Louisiana


17 posted 08-13-2000 04:18 AM       View Profile for monique   Email monique   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for monique

Whinnie the Pooh?
Is a favorite of my 8 and 7 years old
And sometime i sit with them and try to understand what they see in the story
what is there that captivates their mind

i grew up climbing the mountain not far from the house, imagining that if we press this spot on the big giant rock
exactly at midnight
it would open, where there was this long  crack embeded in it, it would open
and a prince charmant on a white horse
would be there for us
i was 6 and 7 and this girl of 10 would tell us this fantaisy
and sometime we would ask the adult if we could sleep in the car
they would say yes
and my friend would say  
ok tonight we will go to the mountain
for midnight to see the magic moment
and i would say ok
but we would fall  asleep


monique
 
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