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Do You Believe In Destiny??

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Isis
Member Ascendant
since 09-06-99
Posts 6390
Sunny Queensland


0 posted 01-11-2000 06:10 AM       View Profile for Isis   Email Isis   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Isis's Home Page   View IP for Isis

OK I so enjoyed the last one, here I am with another  
Do you believe in destiny?
Do you believe a physic or tarot reader really CAN see your future?
And is it possible to change your destiny or is it set and there is nothing you can do about it.
When answering give not only an opinion but an example please!!
Yes I do believe in destiny and physics.  And yes I believe you can change the future.
What does everyone else think?


 Let your heart guide you. It whispers, so listen closely.
~Isis~
(Sovereign of the Spirit)


jbouder
Member Elite
since 09-18-99
Posts 2641
Whole Sort Of Genl Mish Mash


1 posted 01-11-2000 08:51 AM       View Profile for jbouder   Email jbouder   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for jbouder

Not asking easy questions now are you?

My position on this is a little complicated.  Do I believe in some sort of providence?  Yes.  Do I believe people have the power to make choices?  Yes.  How can this be?  I think people are free to make certain choices and decisions but I also believe choices and decisions can be directed by God toward His end.  Kind of an Augustinian view of predestination.

I am very skeptical of "psychics".  Most of them speak in generalities and, perhaps I'm holding them to an unfair standard but, when they are either wrong a large percentage of the time or predict events so far in the future they could never be held accountable, they loose credibility with me.  One psychic predicted I would be a motor-cross racer.  Not even close.  My mother is a fan of Sylvia Brown, some well know psychic, favorite of Montel Williams.  She predicted a "dramatic dip in the Stock Market during November 1999".  It never happened, of course, but my mother (and no doubt many other fans of Sylvia) was unphased.

Let's see where this thread takes us, shall we?  

 Jim

"If I rest, I rust." - Martin Luther

patchoulipumpkin
Member
since 01-01-2000
Posts 203
Bermuda


2 posted 01-11-2000 04:50 PM       View Profile for patchoulipumpkin   Email patchoulipumpkin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for patchoulipumpkin

Damn, this is frustrating, i just wrote a huge reply and then my internet connection bunked out on me, and i couldn't get back to it.  

Ah well.  Well, this is a really good question, and opens up a lot of angles to talk about. To begin i'll answer the immediate question, Do i believe in Destiny?

Yes and NO.

Yes, i believe there are certain paths that one should follow to suit their temperament and personality, but these paths are not carved in stone or pre-determined.  Instead, they need to be recognized by us, so that they can be followed.  So in essence, yes i believe there are "right paths" or "proper paths" for us to follow, but they are not entirely chosen for us already.  

Onto free will and choice.  When i said there are "proper paths" that suit us to walk down to fit our temperament and personality, i didn't mean that we only have these paths to go down.  We have tons of them, but these "paths" are the ones which realize the potential that we are as an individual, and therefore is the "right path".  So these "right paths" are in effect, our destined path, that would best suit us, but they haven't been chosen for us.  Instead, we have to recognize them, so what we consider free will and choice come into play, but it really isn't entirely free, in that we already know what choice we should make, and only need to recognize it.  So while we are choosing what to do, in effect we are really trying to "find" the answer, instead of the idea that we are making it entirely on our own.  So I think free will is balanced by our nature towards something, and a "choice" is made when we try to fit a situation that best suits our nature.  I hope this isn't too confusing.  
Destiny then, is the fulfillment of our nature, that we can either meet, or not.

As far as psychics go, i don't believe they have any special view of the future.  I think that what they do is propose a "future potential" or a probability of what could happen depending on the variables existent in an individual's life and their nature.  So, while it may seem they have a bird's eye view of what lies ahead, i think mainly they have a heightened intuition from which they can sense what an individual is all about and predict what will happen to that individual based on their circumstance and nature.  From your name, your employment, where you live, the inflection of your voice, the clothes you wear, the words you use, they can extrapolate from this to give them an idea of where you are coming from.  Its almost statistical in a way, because from these things they can get a fair idea of your socio-economics and what is included in your situation, and then can go from there.

So I don't think their decisions are made out of a vacuum of some "great insight" i think its a combination of intuition, reasoning, and probability.  So, in many ways, i think many psychics have almost a scientific understanding of things, that they pull from, and not the mist of a crystal ball.

And that's pretty much it.
Isis
Member Ascendant
since 09-06-99
Posts 6390
Sunny Queensland


3 posted 01-11-2000 05:17 PM       View Profile for Isis   Email Isis   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Isis's Home Page   View IP for Isis

Something to ponder...

I won a reading by Rita Rogers (Lady Diana's Physic), I was skeptical sure.  BUT she rang me for an hour from Derbyshire in England.  She knew everything to know about me, emotions, childhood jealousies, I was adopted, parents, bio and adopted family names etc.  Secret thoughts I'd had.   Names of people I loved.  All about my and my husband physically, right down to pains my Mother had and why and she wore her mother's rings.  Too much to be fabricated, assumed, or somehow found out.
My adoptive father is the biggest skeptic in the world and even he was bent by this.
I am not agreeing with her yet, not one thing she predicted has come true, she still has 12 months, for it was a 2 year prediction.
We shall see, BUT in my opinion there is something there, for her to know so much.  Predicting the future is another topic, I remain on the fence about that.
Rita knew me as well as my mother or grandmother did, better than most actually. It felt like I was talking to a beloved old aunty.
What are you opinions on that then?

 Let your heart guide you. It whispers, so listen closely.
~Isis~
(Sovereign of the Spirit)


Dark Enchantress
Senior Member
since 07-27-99
Posts 1460
meet Morgana


4 posted 01-12-2000 06:51 PM       View Profile for Dark Enchantress   Email Dark Enchantress   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Dark Enchantress's Home Page   View IP for Dark Enchantress

I think that there are defintely people with capabilites like that. I know one named Michelle, who is a very dear friend of mine, and she has some kind of telepathic power. But it's not really mind reading. Links could be made between us and she knew exactly what I was feeling before I even told her and she couldn't see me or anything. I don't know if this could be considered some kind of psychic power...it could just be a link that we share together as friends...ugh...but that brings in whole nother subject. Back to the point....I think that something along those lines does exist. I think that fate can be changed...but destiney cannot. Fate is something that just happens during the course of your life and destiny is something that is planned out or drawn up. Those aren't the webster definitions but in small-minded terms that's what it is.  I mean...people have the choice to make things happen in their life but if something is truly meant to happen then that's destiny and it's going to happen. Well, it's too early for me too get into depth on this..so maybe I'll ramble some more later.  

 "They can take away my belongings. They can beat me. They can torchure me and they can kill me. Then they will have my dead body. But they will not have my obedience."
-Gandhi

~*Angel of Darkness*~


[This message has been edited by Dark Enchantress (edited 01-12-2000).]
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


5 posted 01-12-2000 08:26 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I believe we are born with a roadmap in our life..we choose the roads we take, but they have all been planned beforehand..if we take this road..these things happen..each road has an 'access' road... For instance, it was fate that led me to meet my husband, fate that I move here, fate that I would work where I do now, fate that I would meet someone to show me the ways of the internet, fate that I would end up at Passions.

As for 'fortelling the future'...yes.. I believe some people have a power to 'feel' what could happen (remember the roads)...  
Isis
Member Ascendant
since 09-06-99
Posts 6390
Sunny Queensland


6 posted 01-12-2000 10:08 PM       View Profile for Isis   Email Isis   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Isis's Home Page   View IP for Isis

Thanks Dark Enchantress and Poet Devine for your imput.  I like the roads and access roads that describes it well!!  

 Let your heart guide you. It whispers, so listen closely.
~Isis~
(Sovereign of the Spirit)


Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


7 posted 01-14-2000 05:09 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Destiny? Sure, I believe in destiny.  A person one hundred years will be able to see my destiny. I can't.  We're all destined to do something.  Psychics? Well, I suppose it's  possible but I doubt it. I have far too much respect for the power of language, social and power dynamics, and indeed the power to want to believe to really have any use for a mysterious power that we can never understand.

Humans (and that includes me -- hard to believe, huh?) have a desperate need to see patterns in what is ultimately chaos. We see pictures form in the gray snow of a TV screen or in clouds; why wouldn't we see patterns in time as well?  Language is based on the ability to use a general code to say specific things and for others to decode those specifics out of a general code.  Language wouldn't work otherwise.

"It never pays a prophet to be too specific"
Arthur C. Clarke

The other side of the coin is manipulation and it doesn't have to be conscious (anybody play twenty questions?).  Isis, did this Rita person start reeling off facts and figures right after you said hello or did she need to feel your psychic vibrations, talk to you for awhile before she started getting things 'right'? Manipulation is an everyday thing in conversation -- certainly wouldn't be surprised if it happened here.

Third, I think we all intuitively want to believe in a plan, a special, unique fate, if you will, for ourselves.  It kind of frees us from responsibility, frees us from freedom in a sense. I know I've read the astrology section and find myself trying to fit what it says into my life for the simple reason that it was directed at me (my birthday) and I don't believe in any of that stuff.  I know I often confuse temporality with causality and see connections that really just aren't there.  How many other people have ever thought that there football team lost because you just weren't watching seriously enough?  I just hope you didn't think it that seriously.  

So, I guess that's my opinion.

But I could be wrong,
Brad
Trevor
Senior Member
since 08-12-99
Posts 744
Canada


8 posted 01-15-2000 02:56 AM       View Profile for Trevor   Email Trevor   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Trevor

Hello,

I'm going to have to surprisingly go with the puppet master who seems to be controling my thoughts (named Brad).

I predict that someone everyone knows will have a break up in a relationship very soon and someone else will be involved in some sort of accident. I also predict that everyone here will know someone who will come into an amount of unexpected money sometime in the near future....sorry that's just my pun at the generalizations by psycics that often seem like specifics. Those in need are often preyed upon by those in want.

I too believe in forseeable patterns. Lifestyles and personalities create a loose predictability about people. How many of us have seen our friends in a relationship that you know will fail? How many of us have known someone who will mismanage their money or get themselves into trouble? I could easily predict what both my parents will do tomorrow with a 90 percent success rate, if I put enough thought into it I probably could come pretty close to the time in which they will do certain things. I could probably predict their fate up until the end including the way they die. I will say my mother of breathing illness and my father will die of a heart attack. I will also say that very soon someone close to me will get cancer. I could also predict the inevitable destruction of the universe and/or planet earth (though not the time frame). Why?, because there are set patterns that we humans pick up on. We notice the subtlties of life (though not always conscious of it) and can make certain predictable assumptions. Also we are all both the thief and the saint though the degrees and differences in prevelancy of personality varies. With every new experience shared with someone else I notice that they are a part of me. I learn that to varying degrees I am everyone and vice versa. This is often scarey because it sometimes forces you to deal with the dark little subdued devils inside ones physche but also a marvelous thing because it gives us new insight not only into our own life but the life of others as well. When given prior knowledge of both personality and situation it isn't always a matter of mysticism to be able to predict the outcome. In gambling it's called playing the odds.
I guess I can't say I'm a full disbeliever in destiny but I am where conscious thought is concerned. I believe for the majority we are captains of our destiny (though it's easy to predict the final fate of everyone, at least in human form). I don't believe we as individuals were born for a specific reason though creation in general maybe. To say that all our fates are pre-destined is to say that our conscious actions have no relevancy to our existence, nothing we do changes our fate....kinda takes the fun away from having freewill. Nor do I think there is any other destiny other then we die.....and maybe the destruction of the universe. This I guess could be considered destiny, the universe and humans created for a predeterminded reason and destroyed for one as well. Actually now that I think about it I guess I do believe in destiny though not in hokus-pocus type stuff. I do believe there is some unknown purpose for existence, though I know not the role, no how large the part we play in it. Now for me to believe in a predetermined purpose for creation I guess would be the same as saying I believe that there is a certain amount of fate placed upon human existence....for the end result of humans is death and therefore if humans were created for a reason and dying is part of the process in human creation then there is an ironic sense of destiny to it. We live to die for some absurd reason beyond our grasp even if that reason is science based (much like the reason an apple falls from a tree....gravity is its master and it is destined to fall) and not a religious or spiritual thing. Kinda saddens me to think our fate is sealed and is beyond our control but it is a possibility and if uncontrolable perhaps it is best not to worry about it, though if discovered to be the truth I shall not ignore it. Anyways I'm starting to tangle and knot my mind. A very interesting subject Isis, thanks for presenting us with it and thanks to everyone else for their inspiration for thought, take care all,
Trevor

One last quick blurp I thought I'd edit in. When dealing with the possiblity of fate would it be more correct to say that Ghandi would have been Ghandi no matter what or that the particular child born when Ghandi was by Ghandi's parents would have been Ghandi like no matter what? An impossible thing to answer though speculation might be in order. What made Ghandi...well, Ghandi-ish? Was it his environment, genetics, fate/destiny, timing or a combination of everything? If he was born crippled would he have done the things he did? If he didn't attend law school would he have been so passionate about the rights and freedoms of people? If he was born in another era would he still have been a great man? What makes a great man a great man? If it is actually fate should we really worship these people who have no choice to be other than to be great or condemn those we consider evil if that was their fate? Just a thought....what do you all think?


[This message has been edited by Trevor (edited 01-15-2000).]
Angel Rand
Member
since 09-04-99
Posts 140
London UK, and Zurich Switzerl


9 posted 01-15-2000 11:17 PM       View Profile for Angel Rand   Email Angel Rand   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Angel Rand

Hi All,
Trevor I am with you on this one. This is what I believe too when it comes to destiny. Action and reaction. Certain characteristics will lead you this or that way and you need no clairvoyant to be able to tell you that.
However I will admit that there have been some weird "coincidences" and strangely accurate "predictions". But like always I think just cause we don't have the answer (yet) doesn't mean it has to be "supernatural". I do believe that we are the captains of our own destiny and the choices we make is what determines what kind of life we lead and what kind of persons we are.

As for your question at the end, very interesting. I had a discussion once with a friend who basically says that there is no such thing as free will. He maintains that everything we do, we do due to something that went before. That every reaction builds up on an action that happened before and that the only difference between us and a computer program is our ability to conscious thought. But even though we undeniably posses that, we cannot escape the fact that we live and react to a program which, when it boils down to it, has been set from the beginning of time like a chain reaction. A bit like a row of dominoes. The last one in the row falls because the first one was tipped over, the first one was tipped over cause of... who knows... but some reaction to an action. So Ghandi was a great man cause he had no choice but to be that like we have no choice that we are who we are.
Anyway this is my friends view, no idea if that was clear at all...
   from Angel



[This message has been edited by Angel Rand (edited 01-16-2000).]
Isis
Member Ascendant
since 09-06-99
Posts 6390
Sunny Queensland


10 posted 01-17-2000 11:49 PM       View Profile for Isis   Email Isis   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Isis's Home Page   View IP for Isis

Brad, Rita got to know me for a while before making any predictions, but she KNEW names and all that impossible information, aches and pains etc.  Too much to be 'bull'.  There was no way she could know my biological mother's name etc.  that information isn't made public in this country.
Thanks everyone for responding  

 Let your heart guide you. It whispers, so listen closely.
~Isis~
(Sovereign of the Spirit)

 
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