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Passions in Poetry

Is this incoherent?

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Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


0 posted 10-26-1999 12:32 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

In a strange mood:

Just imagine that there is no meaning to any of this: life, the universe, and everything (yeah, I like Douglas Adams). We are a pathetic species, the last hominid by the way. There is or is not a God but it doesn't really matter. At best, we are a mish mash of chimps (Alpha male stuff) and bonobos (sex all the time). We are nothing but a fluke of evolution, nothing but a species that will probably be extinct in the next ten thousand years or so (if not a thousand). Everything that is about our nature is bad, evil or whatever you want to call it. We try to step outside ourselves but we also know it is impossible (as I'm trying to do right now).

What happens?

Nothing.

I still see beauty; I still love my wife; I still love beautiful women. I still want to live. I still love poetry.

And now we can stand up and fight.

We make meaning; we don't search for it.

Brad
doreen peri
Member Rara Avis
since 05-25-99
Posts 8028
Virginia


1 posted 10-26-1999 12:11 PM       View Profile for doreen peri   Email doreen peri   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for doreen peri

NO, it's not.
brandondinsmore
Member
since 10-27-1999
Posts 140
OKC, OK


2 posted 10-29-1999 09:48 AM       View Profile for brandondinsmore   Email brandondinsmore   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for brandondinsmore

I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused. The thought of man being a fluke of evolution is a dominant thought of mine, however.
Your point is a good one, though. I think that even though there is nothing, you know, nothing...it is still man's yearning to love something(s).
I hope to read more of your thoughful commentary on this thing called life in the future.

------------------
Marilyn
Member Elite
since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada


3 posted 10-29-1999 11:24 PM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

Isn't it the searching that we create it Brad? It isn't the destination but the journey that is important. It is because we seek meaning that we create it's existance. We create our fears and our loves. Our hates and our Passions. It is the experience of life that we are.

My point in this is, without the search there would be no meaning.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


4 posted 10-30-1999 12:07 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Marilyn,
I'm pretty sure we agree. Nevertheless, I wonder how productive it is to search earnestly for THE ANSWER. How much are we limiting ourselves by worrying about one and only one, permanent, Platonic TRUTH.

I don't know.
Marilyn
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since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada


5 posted 10-30-1999 12:11 AM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

I do not believe that it is one truth that we seek but many. We seek meaning and that comes in many forms. It comes in loving freely and being loved. It comes with fear and sorrow and getting through. It comes from being lost in a dark place and finding the way back to the light.

It comes in the innocence of a child.
Marilyn
Member Elite
since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada


6 posted 10-30-1999 09:18 AM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

I had to come back to this subject. I thought about this as I tossed last night. I believe that anyone that has taken the most basic philosphy course has considered this question. I believ that the answer to this is very subjective and that it changes as we experience more life.

I think that if you search for one PLATONIC truth, you miss the entire point. The meaning is in the question.

The meaning of life is LIFE. Live it, experience it, enjoy it. If we search fevorishly and miss the simplest things then the meaning is lost. We must enjoy the earth and the people we encounter in our brief existence. Enjoy the loves, feel the hurts and expand our minds.

Of course this is just my humble opinion.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


7 posted 10-30-1999 03:50 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Agreed. Yet, how many people will read this and go, oh yes, of course, but not really feel what you said? The whole society is designed to create the idea of ONE: the right way, the true way, the only way. Read some of the more angst filled poems around here and you see that this influence is everywhere. Are there not times in your life that you haven't said or at least felt; yes, yes, an interesting question but I have to worry about real life. I have to think about the things that are important (never my priorities).

It is an interesting, contradictory world that we live in. A truly pluralistic society would not have so many news shows explaining or asking 'What IS wrong with us?' but contend and look for the multiple strengths and weaknesses in us all. The search for ONE creates pressure that must be dealt with.

Brad
Marilyn
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since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada


8 posted 10-30-1999 11:04 PM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

Honestly...no. I can not leave an interesting question unexplored. Maybe you have come across one that truely wishes to expand her mind. If I have no knowledge on the subject, I enjoy to listen to the other persons views and then look into it. Creating my own opinion and then having the ammunition for a wonderful and indepth conversation for the next meeting.

My priorities are how I organize my life, what has to be done in order to survive. That does not mean that I can not continue to learn and grow as a person.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


9 posted 10-30-1999 11:18 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Marilyn,
You sound like my kind of person .
The conversation never ends. You just have to pause now and then to do little things like breath.

Thanks
Angel Rand
Member
since 09-04-99
Posts 140
London UK, and Zurich Switzerl


11 posted 10-31-1999 03:11 AM       View Profile for Angel Rand   Email Angel Rand   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Angel Rand

To me the meaning of life is quite simple: to live. Life is an end in it self. And no, I do not agree that we are bad by nature. Our nature is neither bad nor good. It simply is our nature. And I do not mean my nature as in my character. My nature is that I am a living entity and that I require certain things to survive as such. What ever goes against that survival is bad. That which furthers my survival is good. But as I am also a sentient entity and have no "natural" defences like an animal, I need to use my reason and my brain to provide for my best possible survival. I must determine with my reason and my experience what is furthering my survival and what is not, as no inborn instinct will tell me this. Only when I achieve a way that grants my best possible survival, will I experience happiness. Providing that I KNOW what is furthering my life and what is not.
So, the meaning of life is to live it in the best possible way.
Angel

[This message has been edited by Angel Rand (edited 10-31-1999).]
Marilyn
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since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada


12 posted 10-31-1999 02:57 PM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

Angel...we go so much farther then that. Our basis for survival doesn't extend to exploring the stars or finding answers to questions like "Is there a God?" We do not need to search for those things to servive. We did not need toknow what gravity or had the convience of electricity to servive.

We as humans have created another demention. We strive for knowledge because knowledge is power. We have created in ourselves a need for power. We all have it, none of us can truely answer no to that question. Be it power to love or power to heal. Power to corupt or power to kill. Our society has some how created a lust for power.

hmmm seems I have gone completely off the topic with this rant. My apologies.
Angel Rand
Member
since 09-04-99
Posts 140
London UK, and Zurich Switzerl


13 posted 10-31-1999 06:16 PM       View Profile for Angel Rand   Email Angel Rand   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Angel Rand

Marylin indeed most ppl crave power of some sort but that is nothing but the need to survive gone off the charts. We explore the stars out of need for knowledge. Cause knowledge is power, and power ensures the *best* possible way of survival. When I talk of survival I do not mean just our bare everyday needs being met. But ALL our needs being met. Which means to satisfy the senses as well as the intellect. But it all really boils down to one common root, survival of the fittest. All our technological "evolvement" is due to that competition. In fact competition is what makes "the world go round".
Side note: when competition is unlawful as it was in Soviet Russia, the economy grinds to a stand still and ppl starve. I am by no means advocating greed here but rather healthy productivity and the right to work for your own advancement and livelyhood.
But anyway that is a whole other debate...
from Angel
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


14 posted 10-31-1999 07:51 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Indeed, we have an Objectivist in our midst. I may be a little rusty in Rand's philosophy but I bet I could give you a run for your money. Why not start another thread?

When it comes to power, don't forget the 'Alpha male' factor. It is one aspect of human society (and perhaps a malapropism because I see it in women as well). Survival and competition are not the same thing except in the most general sense(although I agree with your assessment concerning technological advancement).

I was thinking of Asian definitions when I was talking about evil.

As I understand it, evil is self-interest -- think Hsun-tzu.
Good is selflessness -- think Mencius.

Brad

PS What's wrong with rambling or moving away from the stated topic? If somebody's words trigger a thought, post it. And then that post will trigger a thought and then that thought and then . . .


Marilyn
Member Elite
since 09-26-1999
Posts 2646
Ontario, Canada


15 posted 10-31-1999 08:53 PM       View Profile for Marilyn   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Marilyn

I agree with Brad. There is a definate difference between servival and competition. Perhaps we do need to start another thread with this.

Brad...I have very little knowledge on asian culture (evil, their zodiac, anything really) therefore at this time, I could not have a valid discussion on the topic.

I think it is great that ramblings thouch on another subject. I do it all the time...LOL. I am just unfamiliar with this forum and if it would be acceptable to do so.
 
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