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Passions in Poetry

Love

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Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


0 posted 10-16-1999 04:54 PM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

What is love? How is it determined that one is in love? How can we know what true love is when the world is full of love that will wither overnight? What distinguishes different types of love, like that of a mother for her child, a brother's for a sister, a man's for a woman...is it the amount of intimacy? Or a physical relationship or lack thereof? Is it when you would want to die if a certain person died too? Is it when a person never leaves your thoughts? Just a few things I had on my mind.

------------------
"Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage."
-Billy Corgan-
Munda
Member Elite
since 10-08-1999
Posts 3629
The Hague, The Netherlands


1 posted 10-16-1999 06:22 PM       View Profile for Munda   Email Munda   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Munda's Home Page   View IP for Munda

Hmmm, I'll have to think about this a little, but will definitely come back to it. : ) thanks for making the mind, heart and soul work together. : )
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


2 posted 10-16-1999 11:29 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I sometimes wonder if it's a poet's job to expand the definition of 'love' to make the word itself almost irrelevant. I don't think anyone would deny the nearly infinite variations of love in people and indeed in each individual. The more we concentrate on the specific situations and specific feelings that we all feel and experience, the more the word is defined to include the joys (and pain) of existence.

Write about your own feelings in a way that generates feelings in others and you create your own 'love'.

Anything less, I think, is the path of reductionism and I say leave that to the psychologists and philosphers.

Brad
Julie
Senior Member
since 08-20-99
Posts 742
Houston, TX


3 posted 10-17-1999 04:40 PM       View Profile for Julie   Email Julie   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Julie

SD, I am going to attempt to reply as to my point of view about love for I believe what you are asking is for people's perspective...right? You have a lot of questions here so here's my best shot:

What is love? Love is an action of kindness, compassion, care for another physically and mentally, a genuine concern for anothers well being without imposing control of their thoughts and actions, last but not least...forgiving; the ability to forgive others when they have disappointed us or us them. For futher description I'd refer to Bibical scripture for what love is and is not.

How do you know when you are "in love?"
This is unique to each of us. For me...
it is the internal physical feeling (euphoria) that is a result of the above mentioned actions. This physical feeling does resolve to some degree after a time but is able to be renewed with your significant other when specific actions and thoughts take place.

Yes, we do have different types of love for
each relationship but the foundation of the love is always the same. We may express our love differently physically but mentally it is what we mutually give and receive based on compassion, kindness, caring, forgiveness, etc.

Thanks SD for bringing this subject up and look forward to seeing what you and others think.

------------------
Julie
-------------------------
Thou who has given so much to me,
give one thing more: a grateful heart.
>George Herbert



Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


4 posted 10-17-1999 05:21 PM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

Love, to me, is a mix of joy and bitterness, tenderness and anger. Love is the most precious gift in the world to recieve and to give. But it comes with a price.

People we love frustrate us more than people we have less intense feelings for. It hurts when someone we love betrays us. And if one we love turns on us, we know hate that we would never know otherwise.

In my mind.....one sentence sums it up.

Love is suicide.

(BTW by we and us, I didnt mean everyone,,,,just a general statement.)

------------------
"Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage."
-Billy Corgan-
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


5 posted 10-17-1999 07:38 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

But I read somewhere here, I think it was here, that love and hate are not opposites, love and indifference are. I've also learned from people here that to be suicidal is to be apathetic to the world. To commit suicide is to be apathetic. How is this reconcilable with your statement?

Brad
Munda
Member Elite
since 10-08-1999
Posts 3629
The Hague, The Netherlands


6 posted 10-17-1999 08:39 PM       View Profile for Munda   Email Munda   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Munda's Home Page   View IP for Munda

Systematic Decay,

Hmm, this turned out to be a little harder than I expected. There are so many different types of love. The love for my children, my partner, family, friends, pets.
All this normally weird, creative, inventive, witty mind could come up with is:
For me true love is; to be accepted for who and what you truly are. : )

Munda : )
Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


7 posted 10-18-1999 12:25 AM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

Brad. Suicide is linked with true love to me, because if you fall hopelessly in love, and something ruins it....its almost like you committed a sort of suicide by falling in love.

Also to me apathy is not caring about anything.It means not caring enough to kill yourself. I know....I was there. People commit suicide when they feel trapped in emotions or circumstances, and feel hopeless and helpless, like there is no way out.

Hate and love are just 2 different sides of the same coin. When you love, if the emotion is flipped, reversed, you hate. The strength of your hate depends on what the strength of your love was.

If I make no sense sorry, I am exhausted night everyone.

------------------
"Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage."
-Billy Corgan-
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


8 posted 10-18-1999 10:47 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

SD,
Stop playing games with me! I know what it is to lose someone! I will e-mail you tomorrow.

Brad
JP
Senior Member
since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


9 posted 10-19-1999 02:49 AM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Hmmm..... what is love?

How can one answer such a question with the inadequate tools of the english language? The Greeks have four (I believe) words for different types of love (e.g., agape for Gods love for humanity), the eskimo's have dozens of words for a fluffy white substanence we simply refer to as snow.

Language reflects a cultures emphasis on the importance of a thing - apparrently our society and culture doesn't place much emphasis on the importance of love...

------------------
Yesterday is ash, tomorrow is smoke; only today does the fire burn.
JP

Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


10 posted 10-20-1999 06:52 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

SD,
Sorry about the above comment. I misread your post (I have a tendency to do that at times, just bear with me as I usually get around to seeing what a fool I've been).

Nevertheless, I'm still having a tough time with your argument. It's interesting; I'll certainly give you that and I understand your love/hate dichotomy (I've been there). On the other hand, should that feeling be called love? The hatred your talking about is a reaction to an unrequited action often, I think, with an attempt to influence the other person. In essence then, your upset because you didn't get what you want. Isn't this akin to a temper tantrum?

I'm not being critical of you personally because I've done the exact same thing. But I wonder what value there is in defining the two terms so closely together.

I don't know.

Brad
Systematic Decay
Senior Member
since 09-15-99
Posts 1312
That place with padded walls a


11 posted 10-20-1999 04:08 PM       View Profile for Systematic Decay   Email Systematic Decay   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Systematic Decay

Brad: thanks for not leaving me hanging...I was waiting for that e-mail...

The whole thing I said about love and hate...is not so much whether someone didn't react to an action the way a person wanted them to.

Let me explain: Picture you have a partner, family member, or a friend, who you trust with all your heart. And picture this person doing something to you: hitting you, telling a very personal secret, just out of the blue turning their back on you, manipulating or using you.....the possibilities are endless.

Imagine that you forgive them for one altercation, and it happens again, and again, until you find that your once friendly, and even loving feelings for them have turned into a bitter hatred, a hatred more intense than you could feel, for say a cruel boss, or as a kid, a tormenting bully.

I am not trying to invalidate your temper tantrum idea, because I have done that many times. Like when you say something to someone you care about, and instead of agreeing with you, they argue the point, and you become enraged becuase you know they are right...Or when an attemp for pity only results in someone telling you to quit whining...I know those feelings as well, but they are not what I am speaking of.

Thanks for listening to me ramble.

------------------
"Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage."
-Billy Corgan-
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


12 posted 10-20-1999 08:34 PM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Good point. Had sort of assumed that you were specifically discussing romantic, passionate love (my fault, not yours).

Curious: Do you think you can love and hate at the same time?

I was wondering if part of the problem might be communication and identity problems. If two people are committed to each other than they can avoid much of these problems by talking and by trying to change for the other person. If only one person attempts this, it will be a failure.

If someone actually believes in the essentialization of identity -- this is the way I am, take it or leave it -- then one must consider the relationship a failure. Nobody's perfect, right?

Are trust and love the same thing?

I'm being general here and may not be getting my point across except to argue, again, that maybe love as a word is more of a catch all term for a composite of different feelings at different times. I think poets should be exploring these feelings, not reducing them to one word.

JP, I'll try to respond to your post next time. It's very interesting.

Brad
 
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