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Passions in Poetry

Rambling Thoughts - Take 2

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Ron
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Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


0 posted 08-04-99 12:10 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

on Life



By the time a child can walk, you've taught all you can. Everything else is refinement and reinforcement.
Corollary: If you can't trust your teen, it's too damn late.

Life is a sequence of spiraling Dreams.
Corollary: It's up to you to make sure the spiral points up.

The only thing I can't tolerate is intolerance.

Scientists call it The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. God calls it free will.

Any freedom can and will be abused by someone.

If you help me, I will like you. If you teach me to help myself, I will love you forever.

Poet deVine
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since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


1 posted 08-04-99 01:20 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

If you can't trust your teen, it's too damn late.

I agree with that statement. You have to allow your children to make their own decisions gradually, guiding them to make the right choices until one day, you trust that they will make the right choices without your guidance. My kids could do that by the time they were 14. They still asked for advice, but they made their own decisions. They set their own curfews and were reasonable about it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's up to you to make sure the spiral (dreams) points up.

Dreaming (and in this context I will assume we don't mean the kind we do in our sleep) is nurtured by our parents, teachers and friends as we grow up. If stifled, we tend to spiral our dreams downward.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The only thing I can't tolerate is intolerance.

You've hit my 'hot' button with this one! Intolerance is unacceptable! Who are we to judge anyone or anything! God will judge us all one day - leave it to him. But here on earth accept, tolerate, love.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Any freedom can and will be abused by someone.

I agree with this statement. And it's sad as it makes us all less free.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you help me, I will like you. If you teach me to help myself, I will love you forever.

I have to disagree with this one - personally, I will like you even if you don't help me. But if you teach me - even to help myself, I will like and respect you. To learn is to grow - I try to learn every day!


[This message has been edited by Poet deVine (edited 08-04-99).]
Nan
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Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


2 posted 08-04-99 06:49 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Re: Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle -
I'll have to agree with Erwin Schrödinger. Life is a relative existence. There are few absolutes, and to be intolerant of relativism is to restrict the potentially enormous cultivation or our minds. I'm still trying to toss that ball through the wall, though.....
JP
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since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


3 posted 08-04-99 11:09 AM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

"By the time a child can walk, you've taught all you can. Everything else is refinement and reinforcement.
Corollary: If you can't trust your teen, it's too damn late."

Gotta say no to this one. Not totally incorrect, but close enough to dispute. You can never teach all you can, everyday for your entire life you learn, and in turn, as a parent you will teach (I'll qualify that by saying "as a good parent"). I have 3 kids, 14, 10, and 3. I teach them something new almost everyday, I cannot help it because I am learning everyday. They have the basics of life, and with that I will agree with you, but not the whole of your statement.

"Sprialing dreams" In the immortal words of Casey Kasem "Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars"

I have little patience for those who can't wait a damn minute!

Damn you Ron for putting a link to Quantum Mechanics, now it's bookmarked and I know what I will be studing for the next few weeks.

Abuse of freedom..... I agree.

If you help me, I will pretend to like you but not really appreciate it. If you teach me to help myself, I will despise you for not giving me a free ride and take what you taught me and get rich and never give you credit for it.
Lil-bit
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since 08-03-99
Posts 29
Tallahassee, Florida


4 posted 08-05-99 10:05 AM       View Profile for Lil-bit   Email Lil-bit   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Lil-bit

I agree some what with JP (what a shock).
Learning is a lifelong process.
The day we as individuals stop learning - we stop growing.

Trusting your teen (I have one of those) and allowing them to make decisions should be based on many factors - primarily MATURITY.
Ah, what a nasty word - hehe!

Here is an expression for you:

People don't have babies they have teen-agers!

Every couple contemplating having children should be aware that cute little babies become "hormonal teens". Oh, what a treat!
Ron
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Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


5 posted 08-05-99 12:55 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Nan said:
quote:
I'm still trying to toss that ball through the wall, though.....


Get a smaller ball!!!!

JP said:
quote:
...and I know what I will be studing for the next few weeks.


I have several other good links I would be happy to share. And if you can get through Quantum Mechanics in the next few weeks, I know of a few gentlemen who would love your help with a Unified Field Theory...

Lil-bit said:
quote:
Every couple contemplating having children should be aware that cute little babies become "hormonal teens".


Seems like so many parents spend the first few years eagerly teaching their child to walk and talk, then spend the next 15 yelling "Sit down and shut up!"
Ron
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since 05-19-99
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6 posted 08-05-99 01:30 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

By the time a child can walk, you've taught all you can. Everything else is refinement and reinforcement.
Corollary: If you can't trust your teen, it's too damn late.


Ronisms, as my family calls them, are an attempt (usually futile) to distill five to fifty thousand words of explanation down into its smallest possible form. I often think of them as "prose haiku." Obviously, any such attempt is going to introduce generalities and certainly, in this case, some misunderstandings.

The key to understanding my intent on this one is the corollary, and specifically the word trust. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that we stop intellectual learning at that age. I'm rubbing elbows with the big five-oh and still consider any day I don't learn a dozen new things to be completely wasted. Indeed, I don't think I could formulate a definition of life that didn't include the word learn - when you stop learning, you have stopped living. So, really, we are in complete agreement.

What I was attempting to convey is that the character of a person is largely instilled in the first 18 months of life. Most modern child psychologists (post Piaget) would agree with this, though many would set the upper limit at 12 months and some would actually set it as low as 6 months. Lie to your babies and they will learn to lie. Hit your babies and they will become violent children and adults. Tell your child they are "bad" and they will become convinced of it. Curtail their natural curiosity (don't touch my precious knickknack!) and it will be curtailed for life. On the other hand, love them - openly and unconditionally (not based on their behavior!) - and they will learn to love in a like manner.

A baby is an empty container. What you pour into it can never be completely removed.
JP
Senior Member
since 05-25-99
Posts 1391
Loomis, CA


7 posted 08-05-99 02:25 PM       View Profile for JP   Email JP   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit JP's Home Page   View IP for JP

Mostly I agree with the Ronism... however, I believe that the 12-18 month time frame is way too restricting. The reasons are sound (lie, they learn to lie-and distrust, hit, they learn to hit, etc) however, i would take that time frame up into the 4 and 5 year range, as there is a consistency necessary for the development of a trait,

Spank your child once and he does not learn to hit, tell your child to say please or thank you once, and she will not learn to say please or thank you.

What I will give you is the emotional state of the child being developed by 18. A child in a stressful environment will tend to develop... shall we say, negative character traits, as opposed to a child in a happier, more loving environment. It is not the education, but the psychic connection between the soul and the environment...... How's that for Dr. Spock on quaaludes?
~one voice~
Senior Member
since 07-08-99
Posts 668
Billings, MT USA


8 posted 08-08-99 12:57 AM       View Profile for ~one voice~   Email ~one voice~   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for ~one voice~

I am still figuring out where my beliefs lie in this debate of sorts. However, I am enjoying the different comments and points of view. Keep it flowing please!

------------------
~onevoice~

"She looked at her life
like lines, never-ending,
constantly forming,
reforming and bending."


Sunshine
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Member Caelestus
since 06-25-99
Posts 67715
Listening to every heart


9 posted 08-09-99 04:47 PM       View Profile for Sunshine   Email Sunshine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Sunshine's Home Page   View IP for Sunshine

RON: By the time a child can walk, you've taught all you can. Everything else is refinement and reinforcement.
Corollary: If you can't trust your teen, it's too damn late.

KRJ: Freeze dry teens.

RON: Life is a sequence of spiraling Dreams.
Corollary: It's up to you to make sure the spiral points up.

KRJ: Wake up and smell the coffee.

RON: The only thing I can't tolerate is intolerance.

KRJ: Ditto.

RON: Scientists call it The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. God calls it free will.

KRJ: And mothers call it conscience.

RON: Any freedom can and will be abused by someone.

KRJ: And none of us read Passions at work!?!

RON: If you help me, I will like you. If you teach me to help myself, I will love you forever.

KRJ: If I give you fish, you will forever want food. If I teach you to fish, you will feed yourself. [With a little play on words and help from HIM]



------------------
© KRJ
Sunshine
Words will always express our feelings true. ~~~ KRJ
Look, then, into thine heart, and write ~~~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

 
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