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Passions in Poetry

fitting in

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mia
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since 07-06-99
Posts 120


0 posted 07-07-99 01:34 PM       View Profile for mia   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for mia


it was really nice to think that i could actually fit in somewhere, you know...with others like me who carress the soul with millions of words put together in sweet melodies by the heart.

So I have a simple question for all to ponder...

How does someone really fit in somewhere...Anywhere? Does a person really fit in or are we all destined to float aimlessly always looking for something that does'nt exist?

i hope that someone answers because... i just hope tha someone answers...

M
sea_of_okc
Senior Member
since 06-15-99
Posts 595
Oklahoma City, OK, USA


1 posted 07-07-99 04:32 PM       View Profile for sea_of_okc   Email sea_of_okc   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for sea_of_okc

I am afraid i will be of little help to you. I have never concerned myself with others opinions about me. If I am happy with myself what matter if I "fit in" with any particular group? I think if you are truly happy with who you are others will be drawn to you b/c they can sense your self confidence and contentment and will want to know you in hopes that they can learn the secret for themselves. That's my 2 bits worth. "To thine own self be true...."
another fave saying of mine "If you try to make everyone happy no one is happy, if you try to make yourself happy at least someone might be"
Alwye
Moderator
Member Elite
since 06-16-99
Posts 3968
In the space between moments


2 posted 07-07-99 10:15 PM       View Profile for Alwye   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alwye

Well, Mia, I believe that if you try to fit in, you probably won't. I wanted to fit in when I was younger, but I remained alone most of my younger years. I think fitting in is realizing who you are and not compromising yourself for others. If you get to that point, you will naturally find people like you, like I have found. The best kind of fitting in is fitting in naturally, finding people who love you for being you.

------------------
*Krista Knutson*
Alain DeLaCendres
Member
since 07-02-99
Posts 121
Ohio


3 posted 07-08-99 01:02 AM       View Profile for Alain DeLaCendres   Email Alain DeLaCendres   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alain DeLaCendres

Well mia,
I myself am more of a loner type and don't bother much with other people. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not antisocial or anything, but I don't have to be surounded by "friends" to feel important. In fact, many times I prefer being alone to company.
So, I guess I belive that everyone belongs somewhere; be it alone, in a small group, a large group, or other wise. I think we will all find our place someday, and until then, we will ramble from thing to thing until we find our place. Hope that made sense...

------------------
Tout s'en va, tout passe, l'eau coule, et le couer oublie.
mia
Member
since 07-06-99
Posts 120


4 posted 07-08-99 08:46 AM       View Profile for mia   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for mia

thanks for your comments...
I guess that I am still at a point in my life where I haven't found my place. I learned a long time ago that other opinions did'nt matter... I just had to wear this mask because my exentricity could have hurt my family. I know that this sounds extremely shallow and I am not a shallow person... I've just lived as they wanted or needed me to be for so long that now, as I face the real world... I don't know who I really am. I don't know where I fit in. I guess I was raised to care about everyone elses opinion because they either made or broke my life. I know that this is complicated and I really don't want to bore anyone... I just want to thank everyone that took the time to reply... I really appreciate your comments... I guess this is just one of those things that I will have to overcome alone. It was just nice to ask this question to people who really have no idea who I am...what I look like and what I eat for breakfast... And it was also nice to have honnest comments for once.

M.


fjones
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since 06-07-99
Posts 101
MS


5 posted 07-08-99 10:23 AM       View Profile for fjones   Email fjones   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fjones

Mia,
Maybe instead of trying to fit in –What you really want is contentment –Just want you to meditate on what you may be missing. I think you will only be content when you accept yourself as the wonderful masterpiece your Heavenly Father created. Perhaps this will come in time with living and learning. Remember Wisdom lived is lessons well learned.
Red Letter
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since 05-24-99
Posts 92
Allentown, PA


6 posted 07-10-99 02:21 PM       View Profile for Red Letter   Email Red Letter   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Red Letter

This is a great question, mia and I felt the need to respond...

Your happiness - or contentment (because that is truly what you are looking for, though I believe you are looking in the wrong place) - cannot be determined by externals. You are looking for acceptance in a group outside of yourself for completion and as long as you are dependant upon another, you will only find your happiness transparent and fleeting. I must agree with sea_of_okc whole-heartedly - it is only when you become confident in yourself, in your own accomplishments, in your abilities and passion - that you realize it isn't about "fitting in" anymore. It's about self-acceptance. When you gain that self-confidence, you will have no problem attracting others to you - people will be drawn to the happiness w/in you and you will never find that you are "floating aimlessly" since your foundation has been built upon your own individuality.

I live by this Ralph Waldo Emerson quote, "Insist on yourself. Never imitate." Believe in who you are and what you can do and continue to challenge yourself and you will never find yourself short of contentment.
lenny
Member
since 07-11-99
Posts 68
front royal, va. u.s.a.


8 posted 08-19-99 03:47 PM       View Profile for lenny   Email lenny   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for lenny

Big ditto to fjones and sea-of-okc. True words of wisdom there that need no adding to.
Smiling...

------------------
lenny
Sue
Member
since 08-04-99
Posts 407
France


9 posted 08-19-99 04:23 PM       View Profile for Sue   Email Sue   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sue

To 'fit in' you have to concentrate more on other people than on yourself. Don't try to shape yourself to them, just be interested, and relax.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


10 posted 09-26-1999 01:34 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

This is from a while back but I think the question is more interesting than people might at first think. Hegel, who said a lot of strange things, said the people inherently need to be 'recognized' by other people. This doesn't mean objectified: You're only a woman; you're a writer; you're a playboy etc. but to feel that someone sees you as a complex whole and to be respected in that complexity.

This is tougher than you might think; everybody is so worried about being 'recognized' that many people forget or honestly don't care about 'recognizing' others.

Okay, I've moved slightly away from Mia's question (and I think it's a very serious one) but I believe it also has a lot to deal with passive and active actions.

Rather, let's phrase it a different way:

Instead of trying to 'fit in', how about trying to let people 'fit in' with you?

Does that make any sense?
Brad
Ron
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since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


11 posted 09-26-1999 05:40 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I'm glad you brought this back into focus, Brad, because I agree it's an important topic. And while I agree with everything previously said - and think it's darn good advice - I also think it's an oversimplification of a much more complex issue.

There are a lot of people willing to argue that money won't make you happy, and there are plenty of real-world anecdotes to support their arguments. Just as with "fitting in," money isn't the path to happiness (or contentment, if you prefer), but rather a part of the destination. If you believe in yourself and do work that you love, you'll be far happier - and the money will almost inevitably follow. Likewise, as everyone above suggested, if you believe in yourself and find contentment in your own company, you'll be far happier - and attracting those who share your confidence and contentment will almost inevitably follow.

But there's a flip side to the analogy between money and fitting in that I think is equally true. If money won't make you happy, a serious lack of money can make it really tough to even care about happiness. I'm not talking about a few late bills or not being able to buy the latest model car. I'm talking about going hungry. I'm talking about walking the streets, homeless, jobless, with no prospects, without even the basic resources necessary to find a job. That kind of existence makes a serious dent in your ability to believe in yourself. Finding work you love would be a joke were the situation not so grave. When your stomach is rumbling and your basic human needs aren't being met, all advice on finding happiness is irrelevant. Desperation is all that remains.

Hunger is a very basic need. But so, too, I think, is fitting in and being accepted. If you feel yourself ostracized by your society, alone and not understood, incapable of fitting in - I think it can lead to exactly the same kind of desperation that continued hunger can evoke. Good advice, and the best of intentions, become meaningless in the face of that desperation. Be happy with yourself? How? Be confident and others will be attracted to you? When?

We see poverty as a legitimate problem, with no easy answers. It's a chicken-and-egg thing, cyclic, with poverty leading only to more poverty. I think we need to recognize that an intense feeling of being alone, of not fitting in, is much the same. There aren't any easy answers. And the feelings of desperation can be very, very real.
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


12 posted 09-29-1999 04:02 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

Sorry about calling it an Idealism/Materialism debate. I was just having fun. Besides when I do have those debates, I'm always on the Materialist side.

I just realized that some people might misinterpret these terms (because usually there used quite differently than I mean them). Dialectical Idealism is generally what the philosophy of Hegel is called whereas Karl Marx's ideas are generally referred to as Dialectical Materialism. Actually, the term I like for Marx's thought is a long list of modifiers: Historical Geographical Dialectical Materialism. I just think it's hilarious when scholars do stuff like that.

Another one: concerning the thought and ideas of Jacque Derrida (the Deconstructionist guy)

Europhallologocentrism. This is used to describe Western philosophy in general. Everytime I read that I just start giggling.
Some people think I'm strange. But, really, I'm as normal as the next armchair radical you know.

Okay, back to the conversation. I agree that there is a tendency to downplay this sense of being ostracized because of the "there are people who are starving in Cambodia" argument. For me, it's sort of an apples and oranges response. Both need addressing, both need serious discussion and action. But how?

With hunger, you feed them and, if your smart, you teach them how to feed themselves. (not that simple, of course, but I want to talk about 'fitting in' today.)

When it comes to 'fitting in', I don't have a solution except a thorough discussion of what that means in any particular time and place. I obviously don't 'fit in' where I live (Korea) and it bothers me at times but not that much. I am aware of my situation and who I am. My distinctiveness here comes with the territory and I accept it most of the time (my wife is still amazed when a complete stranger comes up to me and shakes my hand or tells me behind my back to 'Go back to America!').

Yet, of course, I do 'fit in' when it comes to my friends and my wife (but not always her family but far more than I ever expected from a traditional Korean family) and my own family back home.

Or do I?

I submit that no one feels as if they 'belong' to something all the time. To feel that way would be to lose the unique individuality that I think all people feel and that's a price just too high to pay. I don't know Mia's specific situation but my answer would be that 'we all float around aimlessly looking for something that doesn't exist'.

Now, if you accept this proposition, what happens? By accepting that you can never fully 'fit in', you can then concentrate on your actions, your hobbies, your thoughts and act on those. If you act on those, you will eventually find other people with similar (never the same) interests and so forth. If you accept them for their difference, they will probably accept you for yours and before you realize it you will feel like your 'fitting in' (but not completely). This is only true if there is the opportunity to find people with the same interests etc.

'Fitting in' is not permanent; it is a temporary feeling; it does happen but what also happens is a corresponding loss in individuality.

And on that note, I leave wondering if anybody is actually going to read this monster.

Brad
Ron
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Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


13 posted 09-29-1999 05:32 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Brad said:
quote:
I submit that no one feels as if they 'belong' to something all the time.


Isn't that true, Brad, of all feelings? I've often contended that one of the biggest problems with our "search for happiness" is that too few realize it's a transitory state. With many things, such as fitting in, the best we can hope for is to find the feeling "most" of the time. With other emotions, our best hope is for occasionally. With some few, a single instance can be a rare blessing or a bitter curse.

Life is a constant flux of change and would quickly grow boring if we felt the same emotions all the time. Or, to perhaps tie things together, "Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are dead." (Aldous Huxley)
Brad
Member Ascendant
since 08-20-99
Posts 5896
Jejudo, South Korea


14 posted 09-30-1999 06:55 AM       View Profile for Brad   Email Brad   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Brad

I sure as hell think so. I wonder if I'm mistaken in thinking that a lot of pain and eased by understanding that all emotions, all feelings are transitory? I know that once I figured that out, I found it to be tremendously liberating.

If you're happy, enjoy it because it's not going to last.

If you're depressed, ride (I think of a roller coaster) it out because you know it will go away.

This wouldn't help people with really serious emotional problems -- that's when you need a professional. But, if most of us just stopped worrying about absolutes and realized the transitory, temporal nature of existence, wouldn't people have more fun?

And my other 'pop' solution to all of this is action. Move, try new things, meet new people, get out of the routine and try something different. With each new experience comes an explosion of emotions (both good and bad) that should be, well, experienced.

I think most people would accept these as givens. But, I also see a lot of people who will accept these propositions but once the conversation has changed, they will move right back into the eternal, the absolute. Question: How does a person move beyond a cliche, or a concept that is common sensical, into the realm of actually feeling it, of actually knowing it?

Brad

mia
Member
since 07-06-99
Posts 120


15 posted 10-01-1999 08:04 PM       View Profile for mia   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for mia

WOW
I'm glad that my silly question brought such deep thoughts from wise men...
I enjoyed your conversation...
God did i ever miss this place... Where eaven people that don't fit have a place. in the virtual reality that we must construct to feel something other than envy...
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


16 posted 10-01-1999 08:41 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Welcome home, mia!
 
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