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Passions in Poetry

Love

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Wolfgang
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since 05-24-99
Posts 124
Hamilton, Ont. Canada


0 posted 06-12-99 09:55 PM       View Profile for Wolfgang   Email Wolfgang   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Wolfgang's Home Page   View IP for Wolfgang

what is your definition of love?
And please don't use the dictionary version!
Poet deVine
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since 05-26-99
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1 posted 06-12-99 10:23 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

In it's most simplistic - love is tolerance.
fjones
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since 06-07-99
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2 posted 06-12-99 10:31 PM       View Profile for fjones   Email fjones   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fjones

Love is a sanctuary built by one for another
Brought about in faith
Filled with tenderness
Carved from honesty
Braced with forgiveness
Wrapped to be given freely
Wordsmith
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since 06-13-99
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3 posted 06-13-99 09:02 AM       View Profile for Wordsmith   Email Wordsmith   Edit/Delete Message     View IP for Wordsmith

Love is....

... when you can think of one thing and one thing only, every moment you are awake, when everything you do is based around the person, when everything you see is a reminder of that person, and because of that the world is a better place.

Pain is when you feel and have that love, and find the person who it is for does not.
Poet deVine
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4 posted 06-13-99 10:17 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

What about love for fellow man? Not in the romantic sense but in the broader sense. You love someone despite themselves, hence, tolerance.

Romantic love can be disguised as lust..loin love in other words.

Love for your child is almost an animal instinct.

Love for pizza is something so all consuming sometimes, it's hard to express.

There......more food for thought.
Ron
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Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
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Michigan, US


5 posted 06-13-99 12:29 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Okay, you guys are going to be sorry you got me started...

Love is not obsession, although it can often be obsessive. Nor do I think Love is tolerance, because you don't tolerate the faults of one you love, you actually learn to appreciate those faults. What few you can even see.

Romantic Love is a point in space/time where two parallel lines converge. The lines are called Friendship and Lust. (And I agree, Love and lust are often confused, especially when Friendship is missing. Incidentally, I'm convinced you need both, but am unsure whether the order matters. Further experimentation is required.)

Non-romantic Love, I think, is another word for empathy. When you truly feel the pain and joy of another human, you have no choice but to love them. Even if, as sometimes happens, you don't like them very much.

IMHO ...
fjones
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6 posted 06-13-99 02:26 PM       View Profile for fjones   Email fjones   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fjones

I agree with Ron-Love is not tolerance because we all tolerate many people’s actions –mostly because of simple apathy not because we love them. And Ron, romantic love needs lust to begin and grow but it can live in a friendship atmosphere. You will find this out the longer you live!
Ron
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7 posted 06-13-99 02:37 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Faye, are you suggesting that romantic love can't start with friendship, discovering lust/desire only later? I will certainly agree that a vast majority do start with lust (and the lucky few find friendship as well), but we have a whole section of poetry indicating it can work the other way around, too.
fjones
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8 posted 06-13-99 02:41 PM       View Profile for fjones   Email fjones   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fjones

No, no I was just renforcing the fact love can survive without lust but true love can never live without friendship-- Lust can but not love
Poet deVine
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9 posted 06-13-99 03:03 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

I think because the meaning of love is different to different people, there is no quick easy definition. But I want you to know my tolerance for you guys is still intact.
Alicat
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since 05-23-99
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10 posted 06-13-99 04:42 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

Love is God, and God is Love.
What we feel towards others are but flickering shadows compared to the Ultimate Emotion. I Cor. 13.
Moon Dust
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since 06-11-99
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11 posted 06-13-99 05:44 PM       View Profile for Moon Dust   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Moon Dust

Love is a basic need, without it you've got nothing. Love is all you are.
Nan
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since 05-20-99
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Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


12 posted 06-13-99 06:10 PM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

MissModeratorNess here... with my humble opinion...
The definition of LOVE is simple (cough, cough) for me. Finding love is yet another story.... I refuse to believe that I'm too idealistic...
Let's focus on "Mutual Romantic Love". I'm sure that's Wolfie's intent here. I see love as that time and space when
your best friend is your lover and your lover is your best friend.
Love is giving and giving...
- complementing each other's lives perfectly - knowing each other's thoughts (being in sync)
- continuing to dance when the music stops
- getting caught together in the rain and loving it
- sharing equally in life's joys and sorrows
- each protecting and/or carrying the other in times of need
- a "you and me against the world" stance
- accepting each other's human frailties
- resolving disagreements according to whose need is greater - without arguing
- not going to bed angry
- lusting for each other

That's a reasonable order, don't ya think???


[This message has been edited by Nan (edited 06-13-99).]

[This message has been edited by Nan (edited 06-13-99).]
Nimrod the Hunter
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since 06-10-99
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13 posted 06-14-99 12:07 AM       View Profile for Nimrod the Hunter   Email Nimrod the Hunter   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Nimrod the Hunter

I don't know why I'm getting started on this, but I find this to be a quite interesting philosophy group. The way I define true love, in my own eyes, is..

Love is not selfish. Love is wisdom. Love is loving another person as much as yourself. Love is wishing the best to others. Love is better than a brother or sister. Love is undying no matter what. Love is weeping or laughing for others as you would for yourself if the same thing happened to you. Love is kind as summer, yet steadfast. Love is a bitter foe of hatred. Love overcomes all obstances. Love can, and should, be expressed in song. Love comes slowly but surely. Love is careful, not hasty. Love is godliness, trying to be as godly as possible. Love is unfailing. Love does not despise enemies, but forgives them. Love is light as air, yet heavy as a mountain. (I heard that for "duty", but thought it applies to love also). Love knows no boundaries. Love is a terrible and powerful thing. Love is instantly seen as divine, without any flaws. Love is desperate yet patient. Love is compassionate. Love is heaven on earth but, at the same time, hell on earth.

I hope it wasn't a weak assumption of my point of view on love.

------------------
Nimrod the Hunter
Poet deVine
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14 posted 06-14-99 12:25 AM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

Do you think you can love someone sight unseen? In this age of cyber-love, it has been known to happen....what does the physical attraction mean in this love quotient?
Wolfgang
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since 05-24-99
Posts 124
Hamilton, Ont. Canada


15 posted 06-14-99 06:20 PM       View Profile for Wolfgang   Email Wolfgang   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Wolfgang's Home Page   View IP for Wolfgang

Physical attraction is just that! An attraction. It has not a thing to do with love though if nurtured and cared for properly and honestly it could well turn into love. On the other hand it may just turn into a sexual encounter and be forgotten as soon as the next oppotunity for attraction comes along.
I also believe that one can love someone or something sight unseen.
Nimrod the Hunter has many eloquent examples of love of which most are unseen.
Love need not be visual but can be . I may look at a flower and love it's visual impact yet can close my eyes and smell that same flower and love it equally well.
Love is the great engine that drives us to live, the feeling that makes us go on and on and find someone or something to love.

A poet or writer with a love of words.
The artist with the love of expression etc, etc.
Love is infinite often hidden and elusive but it's always there.
I'll just go back and read Nimrods philosophy of love again, it seems to be as close as anything I've ever read.
Ron
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16 posted 06-15-99 12:28 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I repeat my original premise: romantic love is a combination of lust and friendship. And yes, Wolfgang and Nimrod, that is quite a different creature from what both of you are discussing. But I think PD's question alludes to the romantic variety...

"Love at first sight" is a poetic (and polite) synonym for lust. Ergo, "love at no sight" is a synonym for friendship.

'Course, that's a terrible over-simplification. Lust can (and when we're really lucky, does) become much more given time. Friendship, too. But the "love at no sight" phenomenon is complicated by one other not insignificant factor - imagination!

Lust isn't a purely physical thing, and what we see in our minds (the greatest aphrodisiac!!) can certainly combine with friendship to become love. But that only raises a plethora of new and potentially devastating questions. If the lust is imagined, can the love be real? And what happens when reality doesn't meet our imagined expectations? And ...

Sorry. You can blame this overly long soliloquy on today's update at the main site; it gives me a few free miniutes to ramble. Many of you will remember a poem I posted a while back (just as overly long), called "How Long?" It was exactly these questions that poem was written to explore, so you might rightly guess it's a topic of some interest to me.


And could we find a point in time
When trust and lust and hope combine?
When all beginnings must become
A greater whole than just their sum?
fjones
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since 06-07-99
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17 posted 06-15-99 08:25 AM       View Profile for fjones   Email fjones   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fjones

Well said Ron. I am such a realest I could never gather enough imagination to create any kind of lasting love for someone I had not physically encountered. Here is my simple definition of love-We may not want to admit it but we love people according to how they make us feel. Now I am only speaking of romantic love here.
Nan
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since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


18 posted 06-15-99 08:44 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

Poet deVine - We can always count on you to stir a pother... and most grateful we are for that...
Can we love sight unseen? and what about the physical aspect? Those are your questions, yes?
Well, now.... What do I think??.. I have to agree with you, Ron - about "love at first sight" being synonymous with lust - and even about "love at no sight" with friendship.
Beyond that, I personally believe that imaginations can either "make it or break it" for the long run - don't ya think? Imagination can take us anywhere - It has no bounds. Therein lie both the beauty and the danger of "love at no sight".
If the euphoric lust derived from "imaginings" is unrealistic, then by necessity - reality will have to be a disappointment. Conversely - realistic "imaginings" can stand us upon the threshold of a whole new unexplored world of lust and friendship, symbiotically entwined.
Poet deVine, I believe that we can absolutely "love at no sight" - The emotions involved are the same, with or without the benefit of face-to-face contact. As for the physical aspect of your question - That can only be determined when two "lovers at no sight" can touch.
Friends or lovers? Either way - nothing is lost - and much is gained.





[This message has been edited by Nan (edited 06-15-99).]
Wordsmith
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since 06-13-99
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19 posted 06-15-99 04:56 PM       View Profile for Wordsmith   Email Wordsmith   Edit/Delete Message     View IP for Wordsmith

you can love at no sight.

I do love at no sight, and have lost. and I can tell you from the pain that it is true love. not lust, not friendship, but love.

you can have the physical attraction from no sight, from just a description, or a years old photo which may be fake. but even those become less important as time goes on. the only reason why the love fails is if the trust has been broken by a false description.

The true symmetry of thinking, the sharing of life aims and goals you have had as a child, the same basic priorities of living, and an unbelievable addiction to the other person's personality are all symptoms, and it is by nature a whole lot more personal and powerful than a love initially based on lust, because your initial lust is with their mind and not their body, their thoughts and not their actions.

Of course, that doesn't mean you will be able to put up with their wandering socks and squeezing the toothpaste from the middle and not the end, but it means you have a hell of a lot better chance. (imho of course)
sea_of_okc
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since 06-15-99
Posts 595
Oklahoma City, OK, USA


20 posted 06-15-99 06:02 PM       View Profile for sea_of_okc   Email sea_of_okc   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for sea_of_okc

I strongly agree with wordsmith. I love a woman I have yet to meet real-world. The emotional attachment is far stronger than any I have experienced in a "lust" begun relationship. I think wordsmith nailed it on the head when he says you have a better chance (assuming both parties have dealt honestly with the other... a BIG assumption on the net I know...) because getting along during all the day to day stuff is far more difficult than giving or receiving physical pleasure. A net-started relationship by necessity has the initial focus on the emotional and spiritual compatibility of the couple. If that is so incredible that the pair feels the absolute need to be together real-world I can't imagine there being any problem with the physical aspect and there is already a demonstrated ability to communicate effectively with one another. How many divorces are caused by mis- or lack of communication????
Alwye
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since 06-16-99
Posts 3968
In the space between moments


21 posted 06-16-99 02:29 AM       View Profile for Alwye   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alwye

Love is essential for all forms of caring. It is the basis for all forms of positive human emotion: friendship, kindness, tolerance, compassion. Without love, these things cease to have any real meaning in one's heart. If one can love, then one can experience all these things and give all these things. So, essentially, love is the building block for all other forms of positive emotion. Without love, there would be no friendship, kindness, tolerance, or compassion.
Sage
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since 06-16-99
Posts 7
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22 posted 06-16-99 07:17 PM       View Profile for Sage   Email Sage   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Sage

I'm on an against all trip today or something... I don't know exactly why. But I must state that IMHO Ron doesn't know what he's talking about with the "Love at first sight" and "Lust" topic. One very major portion of love IMHO that is not in friendship is unity. "You complete me" is a phrase we've all heard, am I right? If you're wondering about my "Love at first sight" explaination, please just be patient; "What is love" is a much more necessary topic at the moment. Love IS nothing. Nothing at all... Love is not a thing. Love is an emotion. Emotions cannot be explained with words, they must be expirienced to understand. Let me give you an example. If you laugh at a joke, how would you explain why you laughed to a person who doesn't know what humor is? It's impossible, you'd have to tell him a joke, would you not? Same concept, reguardless of how vague humor is when compared to love. You have to expirience love to know what it is, and even then you can't explain it, you can only feel it deep within your heart. So I can't tell you what love IS, and IMHO nobody can... But just about anybody can tell you what some of the many typical characteristics held in a loving relationship are. Now on to the lust issue...

What is lust? Hmm... Well again, lust is an emotion. Webster defines lust as a "Licentious craving; sexual appetite" [Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, Definition 4]. Hmm... If this is true, then a married couple would not be lusting after eachother, for such a thing would not be considered immoral, unjust, or impure. At least not to society in general.
Alright, Are we all agreed that lust is of the flesh? At least in the sense that it is being viewed upon today? Good.... Let us continue. Love at first sight. Now, Love at first sight CAN be lust, but not necessarily. Not one lousy little bit. It is possible to look at someone and to suddenly be filled with a love for that person. Unlikely, but possible. Just looking into the eyes of that person makes you feel good inside, makes you feel good to be a human being. Just looking at the person you can see what you haven't seen in any other on the planet, exactly what you need in your heart, the other half of your inner spirit, the other half of you. If you want an explaination, go ask psychic's how they do that (and if you don't believe that at least a few psychics are real, just tell that to all the police departments who have used them in otherwise hopless cases... and got answers). Ask a dancer how they dance. Ask a poet how they write. Somehow, it just comes to you. Sometimes, it's almost like someone is lighting the way for you. Sometimes it just is. And to me, thats as good an answer as any. Love is.

p.s. Ron, I meant no offense in this letter, and I'm sorry if I have in fact offended you. I'm just stating my humble opinion.

------------------
-Love is a dangerous emotion,
You can brighten the lives of others immensly with it,
Or You can destroy a person in a way that is unparalleled.

S.M.
Nimrod the Hunter
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since 06-10-99
Posts 63


23 posted 06-16-99 10:01 PM       View Profile for Nimrod the Hunter   Email Nimrod the Hunter   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Nimrod the Hunter

Right there, Sage. I agree with you that emotions can be contrived through examples. Tell somebody a joke, and they instantly laugh at it... that's humor. I guess that if you can't explain it definitely, then you can put it into a story to make the other person unconsciously feel it, and then say "that is [emotion]"!

But one more thing, I totally agree with you on the "love at first sight" part, it does not have to be lust necessarily. If someone made me feel special, or lifted my spirits when I'm not feeling well, then that's love when I see the person. It's a feeling of gratification. Sadly, I can look at Jesus's eyes and feel love for him, not necessarily lust at all.

------------------
Nimrod the Hunter

[This message has been edited by Nimrod the Hunter (edited 06-16-99).]
LeoG
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since 06-17-99
Posts 8
Namibia


24 posted 06-17-99 02:46 AM       View Profile for LeoG   Email LeoG   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for LeoG

We as artist all in our own right, cannot create true beauty, because true beauty exist in life...and life is love. A smile, a gesture...all that. However since we are beings of love, we have the power to amplify this beauty, merely sharing it with others to enhance it.

Love is alot like the rain...
Always welcome, always refreshing, comes in drips and floods......always blinding.

No man can ever be objective about love, we are to involved.

------------------
We all have the makings of angels, yet we lose our wings due to a lack in humanity....
 
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