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Passions in Poetry

Let's Talk About Critiques - Discussion

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vlraynes
Member Rara Avis
since 07-25-2000
Posts 9136
Somewhere... out there...


0 posted 01-24-2003 10:09 PM       View Profile for vlraynes   Email vlraynes   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to Submit your Poem to Passions   Click to visit vlraynes's Home Page   View IP for vlraynes


Hi everyone.

Considering all of the apparent confusion and misunderstanding that have been taking place recently, I thought if might be helpful to discuss your views on what a critique is or should be.

Do you welcome critiques of your poetry?
If not, why not?  If so, why?
If you have a critique message, what does it say?  
Does it make clear what you would like to see in a critique?

What do you expect from a critique?
Are there specific points that are more interesting or important to you than others?
If so, what are these specific points?
Why are they important to you?
______________

This is something that I thought was rather interesting, so I thought I'd share it...just a little history about the word and it's usage.

"Usage Note: Critique has been used as a verb meaning ďto review or discuss criticallyĒ since the 18th century, but lately this usage has gained much wider currency, in part because the verb criticize, once neutral between praise and censure, is now mainly used in a negative sense. But this use of critique is still regarded by many as pretentious jargon, although resistance appears to be weakening. In our 1997 ballot, 41 percent of the Usage Panel rejected the sentence As mock inquisitors grill him, top aides take notes and critique the answers with the President afterward. Ten years earlier, 69 percent disapproved of this same sentence. Resistance is still high when a person is critiqued: 60 percent of the Usage Panel rejects its use in the sentence Students are taught how to do a business plan and then are critiqued on it. Thus, it may be preferable to avoid this word. There is no exact synonym, but in most contexts one can usually substitute go over, review, or analyze. ∑Note, however, that critique is widely accepted as a noun in a neutral context; 86 percent of the Panel approved of its use in the sentence The committee gave the report a thorough critique and found it both informed and intelligent."

Source: The American Heritageģ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

____________

The thing that I found most interesting about the above explanation, was the fact that the sentences that the Usage Panel most rejected were the ones that referred to a critique directed more at an individual than a 'thing'.  This way of thinking follows right along with the Passions philosophy of directing the critique at the poem and not the poet.  This is sometimes a fine line with poetry, because often the poem is a 'part of' or an 'extention of' the poet, and therefore it is difficult for the poet to not take the critique personally.  This being the reason for having the option of welcoming critiques or not.

Anyway...tell me what you think?  I'd really like to know what your opinions are and perhaps this will help us all to understand one another better and to know a little more about what each of us is or is not comfortable with.

I would ask that you be careful to keep your comments directed at the subject matter and not at any specific situations or members.  Your cooperation will be very much appreciated.

~Vicky
© Copyright 2003 Vicky L. Raynes - All Rights Reserved
Eromyna
Member
since 11-29-2002
Posts 310
Pheonix, AZ, USA


1 posted 01-24-2003 10:21 PM       View Profile for Eromyna   Email Eromyna   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Eromyna

Do you welcome critiques of your poetry? Why yes. I do.
If so, why? I need others' perspectives to point out what I may overlook in my affection for my own creation.
If you have a critique message, what does it say?  Something about how I've been writing for a long time and now I'm trying to spruce it up.
Does it make clear what you would like to see in a critique? I think it does.

What do you expect from a critique? Either that they liked it, or that it irked them somehow, and then an explanation of how.
Are there specific points that are more interesting or important to you than others? Of course.
If so, what are these specific points? For example, I'd rather know that you enjoyed reading a piece than that I spelled everything right.
Why are they important to you? I write for the beauty of the thing. It satisfies me to know that others enjoy it as much as I do.

"I don't need to scream for you to deem me aggravation."

Starr
Member
since 02-08-2001
Posts 104


2 posted 01-25-2003 08:25 AM       View Profile for Starr   Email Starr   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Starr

Yes I do welcome critique.... Becuz critique makes you learn from your mistakes.. it's there to help not hinder... I welcome it.
Critique can be good or bad... but the point is to learn from them!

Every action of our lives touches some chord that will vibrate in eternity.

PoetryIsLife
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since 10-27-2001
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...in my boxers...


3 posted 01-25-2003 03:16 PM       View Profile for PoetryIsLife   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PoetryIsLife

I'll be back to this one, Vicky. Great topic matter.

~Titus

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
                 --Aldous Huxley

Android 17
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since 07-21-2001
Posts 1388
Winnipeg


4 posted 01-25-2003 07:36 PM       View Profile for Android 17   Email Android 17   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Android 17's Home Page   View IP for Android 17

*gasp* A discussionary thread in a Teen POETRY FORUM?! MODERATOR!!! MODERATOR!!! A CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITED!!! THIS IS A TRAVESTY AGAISNT THE SYSTEM!!! :P

-----------

Do you welcome critiques of your poetry?
Yup! Why else would I put it up on the internet! The stuff I TRULY teasure, I don't post on the web. I fear 'dem pirates!

If not, why not?  If so, why?
I'd love an honest hearing of the how, what and whens of my work! After all, critiques are a part of learning!

If you have a critique message, what does it say?
Huh? I don't quite follow...

Does it make clear what you would like to see in a critique?
OOOH! I GOTCHA!!! Yup! It does! It states, basically, "Do whatever you want! Just be respectable!"

What do you expect from a critique?
I expect it to be honest, and basically...it should teach me something, by reading about what you've read!

Are there specific points that are more interesting or important to you than others?
No! They're all fine!

If so, what are these specific points?
...next question!

Why are they important to you?
...*looks around*

Vekrdehk fyc dra uhmo drehk E fyc kuut yd...pid, yd maycd E ymfyoc vuikrd vun fryd E pameajat eh...

Erin
Member Elite
since 06-15-2000
Posts 2681
~Chicago~


5 posted 01-26-2003 03:31 AM       View Profile for Erin   Email Erin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Erin

I dont welcome them on my work.

Its my work, those are my feelings put into a poem and u cant critique my feelings. I mean if someone offers a suggestion to what can make it better i could use their help if i want it. I mean if someone doesnt like my poem or has something negative to say about it, most of the time it doesnt bother me cause i must have liked it enough to share it with all these people. I mean it is a part of learning but this is just my opinion.
Kielo
Senior Member
since 02-11-2002
Posts 1259


6 posted 01-26-2003 03:35 PM       View Profile for Kielo   Email Kielo   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Kielo

I welcome critiques, as unskilled as I am at giving them. I like to know why people liked or disliked my poem, and if they have advice, more the better. I am very, very unskilled at editing.

I believe my critique message says something to the effect of "Help... I don't know what I'm doing!" Or maybe more like "Help me, its the only way I'll learn." Something like that... Actually, now I'm wondering what it says... lol

I enjoy hearing what a person thought of my poem, but I enjoy hearing the why behind it more. Favorite lines are good, as are suggestions.

I hope something I said was useful.

Kielo

I know only one thing, and that thing is that I know nothing.

[This message has been edited by Kielo (01-26-2003 05:07 PM).]

EleanorMoonbaby
Member
since 09-02-2002
Posts 206
England, UK


7 posted 01-26-2003 04:24 PM       View Profile for EleanorMoonbaby   Email EleanorMoonbaby   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit EleanorMoonbaby's Home Page   View IP for EleanorMoonbaby

Do you welcome critiques of your poetry?
Yes. I'm not here for the standard gushing "Wow, what a great write!" response.

If not, why not?  If so, why?
I like to know what people really think of the poem,and how I can improve. I'd be a very arrogant person if I assumed that my poetry appeals to everyone and doesn't need improvement.

If you have a critique message, what does it say?
Am I good? Do I suck? You, the people, decide. This poem's fate lies in your hands!

Does it make clear what you would like to see in a critique?
I guess not. In case my critique message isn't clear enough, write what you want.

What do you expect from a critique?
Firstly, feedback. I like to know what people think. Secondly, interpretations. Some people come up with some interesting views on what I write about. Thirdly, suggestions for improvement. This isn't always possible, as occasionally people will see a poem they didn't like but aren't sure why. If you can, however, I'm interested.

Are there specific points that are more interesting or important to you than others?
No, I think they're all equally important and interesting.

If so, what are these specific points?
I just answered that! I'm a very busy woman, you know!

Why are they important to you?
Get me outta heeeeeeeeeere!

I'm not dead, OK? I'm just a little electroencephalographically challenged!

OtherSideOfTheMirror
Member
since 12-19-2002
Posts 251


8 posted 01-26-2003 04:38 PM       View Profile for OtherSideOfTheMirror   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for OtherSideOfTheMirror

Hello everyone! This seems like a really interesting discussion and so though I didn't plan on including myself I will comment for the good of man... or, erm... because I have nothing better to do.

Do you welcome critiques of your poetry?

Absolutely.

If not, why not?  If so, why?

Because that's what I come here for.  If someone has an idea that could help me I welcome it!!! I usually write for me, and organizing my thoughts on paper could always benefit someone with the same feelings.  It feels good when people say they can relate... it helps me make sure I am thinking strait.  Did that make sense?

If you have a critique message, what does it say?  

I honestly don't remember what mine says but something like "Critique me."?

Does it make clear what you would like to see in a critique?

I don't suppose it does.  Maybe it would in fact help us all if we would just state what we expect and what we'd like.  

What do you expect from a critique?

I expect honestly, realistic views, interpretations, and opinions.  I usually take people's advice and I like to see how others view what i write.  Because when I write, I'm writing about my own feeling and situation, it's good to see if I portray it well and if it applies to other situations.
Are there specific points that are more interesting or important to you than others?

If so, what are these specific points?

Wait I answered that prematurely.  Refer to above.

Why are they important to you?

I'm not sure.
Skyfire
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since 12-27-2000
Posts 5766
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9 posted 01-26-2003 10:55 PM       View Profile for Skyfire   Email Skyfire   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Skyfire

Do you welcome critiques of your poetry?
yes I do, but only if it's in a respectful manner.
If not, why not?  If so, why?
cause as great as I am, ( ) I can always be improved upon, especially with my writing.
If you have a critique message, what does it say?  
Something like "yes please, but be nice about it". I'm thinking that I'm going to make it a little bit more... specific sometime in the future.
Does it make clear what you would like to see in a critique?
Nope, that's why I'm thinking about changing it.

What do you expect from a critique?
I expect the person to be honest, in a respectful manner. If something about my writing doesn't jive with them, I'd like to know why.
Are there specific points that are more interesting or important to you than others?
Jah there are a few.
If so, what are these specific points?
Word usage, spelling... I don't care much for someone critiquing my punctuation cause my punctuation tends to be kinda erratic.
Why are they important to you?
Because of my career choice, I need to have a wide vocab, and my spelling skills are an absolute must
PoetryIsLife
Deputy Moderator 5 ToursDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 TourDeputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 10-27-2001
Posts 4115
...in my boxers...


10 posted 01-31-2003 10:46 PM       View Profile for PoetryIsLife   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for PoetryIsLife

Do you welcome critiques of your poetry? Yes.

If not, why not?  If so, why? I seek to know what my poetry says to an individual, what they get from it, and how they might see I can improve.

If you have a critique message, what does it say?  "Installation in process.... what are you recieving?"

Does it make clear what you would like to see in a critique? You tell me.

What do you expect from a critique? Uhh... what I said above.

Are there specific points that are more interesting or important to you than others? Yes.

If so, what are these specific points? What a reader got from it.

Why are they important to you? I wrtie for myself, first, but I seek to write with the reader in mind, eventually, to see if I can change or improve or pass something on worth value, whatever value.


Es ist gut, daŖ das Leben die Toten studieren sollte.

anonymousfemale
Member Ascendant
since 02-02-2000
Posts 6304
Limbo


11 posted 02-01-2003 04:43 AM       View Profile for anonymousfemale   Email anonymousfemale   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for anonymousfemale

I do welcome critiques on my poetry only because I don't want people to be limited to what they can and cannot say. If it's crap, I want to hear it. A person should be able to have whatever judgement they like on a piece and this is the exact reason why I allow it. They're reading it because they want to - they've giving me an opinion because they want to. I'd much rather have honesty than some flowery BS about it.

My critique message is a joke, it's not meant to be serious. if you need to know what it is, you can reply to one of my pieces. It's not clear but then again people don't need to be spoon fed in their replies. They have a brain so they can use it.

All that I expect from a critique is honesty. If they can't do that, perhaps they should become a politician. All points are important therefore I don't mind what anyone has to say.

If people are getting narky over a few comments from people they've never met, they're going to need to sort themselves out. It's the not person replying that has the problem, it's the writer.

"Write something, even if it's just a suicide note." -- Gore Vidal

chasing rain
Senior Member
since 05-15-2001
Posts 1281
Canada


12 posted 02-01-2003 03:58 PM       View Profile for chasing rain   Email chasing rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for chasing rain

Do you welcome critiques of your poetry?
No. Not at all. Never. I get offended easily. ~_^ (yes)

If not, why not? If so, why?
A poet is naught but a thing in a knot if there's no one there to read it. Poetry is like paper. You can rip it to shreds, but it's still paper in a different form. I want to see something different; someone else's interpretation. I never take it personally, because critques are never personal. They're only based on actions.

If you have a critique message, what does it say?
"...and so the world troubles themselves over what to say about nothing..."

Does it make clear what you would like to see in a critique?
Nope. ^_^

What do you expect from a critique?
Not a whole lot. People differ in the way they critique. Interpretations are cool. It's awesome when people tell you what they think. Then you get to see the whole picture out of someone else's eyes. Why? Because it's better than cutting out someone's eyeballs and sticking them in your own sockets. ^_^ Minority Report, anybody?

Are there specific points that are more interesting or important to you than others?
A critique is a critique. But I enjoy interpretations.

If so, what are these specific points?
I believe I've just stated that in the above question.

Why are they important to you?
I don't like being biased. ~_^ Besides, what someone else got out of the poem just makes what I wrote so much more enjoyable and enlightening. That is satisfaction.
Marshalzu
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since 02-15-2001
Posts 4465
Lurking


13 posted 02-02-2003 05:46 PM       View Profile for Marshalzu   Email Marshalzu   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Marshalzu's Home Page   View IP for Marshalzu

Do you welcome critiques of your poetry?

Yes

If not, why not? If so, why?

I find myself far too attached to my own work, thus Iím not critical enough of my own
work, itís nice to see some detached point out some of the short comings.

If you have a critique message, what does it say?

quote:
I would like a constructive criticism of my work, punctuation, language, spelling as
well as imagery, meaning etc...


Does it make clear what you would like to see in a critique?

Iíd like to think that it is.

What do you expect from a critique?

Iíd like to see a new, refreshing and unbiased perspective of my poetry, that offers
constructive advice and opinions. I donít mind ďI donít like thisĒ but some advice has to
offered in my opinion.

Are there specific points that are more interesting or important to you than others?

I havenít got a thing that Iím worried about, rythmn and metre are good, as are
interpretations, comments on the language are well recieved usually, I donít know,
anything really.


Andrew

My Violent Bedtime Stories

merlynh
Member
since 09-26-1999
Posts 444
deer park, wa


14 posted 09-25-2003 03:54 PM       View Profile for merlynh   Email merlynh   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for merlynh

It is not easy to be honest. Frankly I am impressed to find this post.  Not all writers are ready to hear the truth. People get into poety because they need to sort of get emotions out of themselves as an attempt to deal with life. Some after a period of time learn how to refine their skills becoming great at expressing ideas grow into deeper thinking writers learning from their trade, after a while they may grow into writing stories,or novels or even just stay poets.  This is a brief outline of how some of the greatest writers who ever lived got started. Some of the posts I read are not so very different from some of the earily writings of great writers. It's scary!  If you don't beleive me just do a little research yourself. Stephen King's book "On Writing" is one of the best books I've read about writing in twenty years, simply because he is being honest.  All critiques are helpful if their honest.  Anyone will never become a better writer if they are not honest with themselves.
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