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Passions in Poetry

predestiny

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The Great Onion
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since 06-05-2008
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0 posted 06-15-2008 12:57 AM       View Profile for The Great Onion   Email The Great Onion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for The Great Onion

this might be an idea for another one of my pieces of writing, but i dont know yet. anyways im a very philosphical person and one of my pastimes here is well, giving people very philosphical questions. my question for the week is, are our lives and every aspect depending on them predestined? in other words, this is a question of free will. remember that in philosophy, there is never a correct answer to anything; there only opinions.
Earl Robertson
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1 posted 06-19-2008 12:44 PM       View Profile for Earl Robertson   Email Earl Robertson   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Earl Robertson

*cough wrong board cough*

Yes and no. Every moment is preknown but not predestined.
Think of this moment as a giant math equation with EVERYTHING there is at this moment being part of it.
By solving this equation you could determine the next moment and so on till eternity.
Of course we mortals are incabable of knowing EVERYTHING in any given moment let alone solving the equation.

my two cents

There's a fine line between Genius and Insanity
I have Erased that Line
-Mark Paron

The Great Onion
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2 posted 06-19-2008 09:16 PM       View Profile for The Great Onion   Email The Great Onion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for The Great Onion

but we can only predict a few moments into the future and even so, we can only predict what would happen. If you walk across a street for example, you'll only expect that the next moment you would be on the other side of the street but who knows? What if a piano fell from an apartment complex next to you and smashes on to your body? Or some aliens abducted you and the next moment you were waiting for was on some desert planet lightyears away from your home? my conclusion is that we only have a power to predict but we cannot change what the future is going to be. For short, i both agree and disagree with the fact of predestiny.


by the way, sorry for posting this thread in the wrong place. forgot to switch before doing so, sorry.
Earl Robertson
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since 01-21-2008
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BC, Canada


3 posted 06-19-2008 09:34 PM       View Profile for Earl Robertson   Email Earl Robertson   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Earl Robertson

You limit yourself Onion.
In order for this to be precise the person or machine running the calculations would have to be OMNISCIENT for about three seconds.
From that (the knowledge of EVERYTHING for three seconds or so) the rest could be determined.

As an example...you are walking to work and a piano falls on you.
Example: (condensed)
The piano fell because a couple in an apartment were arguing, they were getting divorced. The man stormed into a rage and, trying to vent it pushed his piano (which was on wheels) to much. It fell out the window and crushed you.
Two months ago these two started competing with each other at work, which through a complicated series of feelings and events was to lead to the devorce. Thirty years ago that man was bullied and learned that physical aggression towards innanmate objects helped.
Now to you. Two months ago you slacked off a bit at work and your boss started watching you more carefuly. Thus when you were late three days ago, your boss gave you a very terse warning. Yesterday you were all thumbs, and your boss was quite cold towards you.
You are almost paniced when you miss the bus because the driver was angry (I could go on here) and did not want to wait.
So (as could be predicted by your nature) you are running, paying no attention to your suroundings when a piano randomly falls out of the sky and onto your head.

Perfect knowledge of any moment leading to this tragic event could have predicted it.
IT WAS NOT PREDESTINED any of the people in this story could have changed it's outcome, but because of their natures they would not.

There's a fine line between Genius and Insanity
I have Erased that Line
-Mark Paron
Falling rain
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4 posted 06-20-2008 10:39 PM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

Do we choose are own lifes? Do you live the life you want? Is this predestenized? (sp?) Or a matter of disicions forming your future?

I don't know really.. just questions that popped in my head when i was reading. ..Haha

"It might be easy to fall for someone but it's also easy to break a heart." - Zach Booker.

The Great Onion
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5 posted 06-20-2008 10:42 PM       View Profile for The Great Onion   Email The Great Onion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for The Great Onion

good point there, and frankly i would agree with you. after i posted that message, i changed my viewpoint thinking that people are not determined by their predestiny; but rather by their personality, but i still disagree a little about your explanation to my statement. if i was that occasionally stupid person walking on the street and with all those circumstances that applied, of course there would be something bound to happen to me. however if my personality isnt
that way, such a random event can still happen because there is a very small chance that something or someone can possibly kill a person walking on the street (speaking about me) because who's to say that some pilot suffered from a heart attack and a private jet lands directly on me. if that pilot was someone who kept a perfectly healthy diet, than it wasn't his fault that he had that heart attack because if he was perfectly normal, than his bloodlines had these similar heart problems. (i also understand that this statement is easily debateable).
Falling rain
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6 posted 06-22-2008 01:02 AM       View Profile for Falling rain   Email Falling rain   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Falling rain's Home Page   View IP for Falling rain

That is also true.. But say this man with a heart attack was having a regular diet. And he had his heart attack. Could there be something else wrong besides the diet? Maybe a sudden pasmatic situation accured and the plain went out of control and landed on you.

If this determened by a invisable thing we call Fate? Is Fate such a thing we fool ourself's into believeing? That we were controled and predestenized by this invisable thing.. Now if you were religious on the other hand you would think (what or who you believe in) did this to you or that it was "your time"..

But is this all ready desided for us??

I think not but you may think in what ever form you please...

~Zach~

"It might be easy to fall for someone but it's also easy to break a heart." - Zach Booker.

Earl Robertson
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7 posted 06-23-2008 12:00 AM       View Profile for Earl Robertson   Email Earl Robertson   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Earl Robertson

Onion: But this equation is not just about peoples personalitys (which is a nebulous word unto itself) It's about everything. Genitics and miteorites included. There is no such thin as luck, but the rules governing such "random" events are simply too complex for us to work out.
Each of these events of course are but one variable in our equation.

Rain: You are Christian I believe? (If I'm wrong please forgive me.)Two questions: Would Christ (or whatever you believe in)
a) restrict your free agency or
b) leave the world up to a random invisible "fate"?
Second:
Does God know everything?

There's a fine line between Genius and Insanity
I have Erased that Line
-Mark Paron

The Great Onion
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since 06-05-2008
Posts 43


8 posted 06-23-2008 11:15 AM       View Profile for The Great Onion   Email The Great Onion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for The Great Onion

actually if you study the Chaos Theory (which is a way to balance nonlinear equations) you can make a prediction of what will happen; that is if you have your calculations done correctly. though frankly i have to admit, i barely know anything about this study; but to get a good idea, you should read Jurrasic Park. (and keep in mind that the book is based on real life science.)


also if you want to respond to my next question, check philosophy 101
The Great Onion
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since 06-05-2008
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9 posted 06-23-2008 11:40 AM       View Profile for The Great Onion   Email The Great Onion   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for The Great Onion

for me, i think god has limitless power and limitless knowlege (Im also a christian) but i dont think however god controlls our fates, he just secures them for us. we have the power of free will but... there is a contridiction to that. when paranoids and psycics do super natural feats like predicting future occurences or a prophet hands a prophecy that some farmboy will be the king of scotland, the funny idea about them is that all of them come true unless a person is a fraud. and i dont think that every prophet, paranoid, or psycic in this world happens to be a fraud. sigh... there are sooo many things in this world that science can't explain.
SEA
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with you


10 posted 06-23-2008 05:19 PM       View Profile for SEA   Email SEA   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for SEA

I think we set a course, then it's up to us here to fullfill the things we set out to do, lessons we need to learn. I think certain things happen to us to remind us if we get off track, then if we don't heed that warning, we get kicked one. For example, my daughter at work the other day, roughly tuesday of last week- a couple came in and asked if they could work for food or money. From Canada and they got in a car accident and could not get any help until Friday. Her boss said she could not let them as it was a liability, and so they left. My daughter ran out and gave them all the money she had on her at the time. Then she got into a car accident on Thursday. I'm just saying, maybe they were a warning or maybe a reminder, and she didn't listen so God kicked her one and said pay attention... I think we have complete control over our lives....within boundaries, that we set for ourselves.
Earl Robertson
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since 01-21-2008
Posts 753
BC, Canada


11 posted 06-25-2008 02:37 PM       View Profile for Earl Robertson   Email Earl Robertson   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Earl Robertson

Well that's what my theory sets out to explain Onion. We have free will, but we're predictable.
And Sea is completely correct we can put our hand on the hot stove top if we want to.
God will know that we will want to, and if we do we will.

And it will hurt.

There's a fine line between Genius and Insanity
I have Erased that Line
-Mark Paron

 
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