How to Join Member's Area Private Library Search Today's Topics p Login
Main Forums Discussion Tech Talk Mature Content Archives
   Nav Win
 Tech Talk
 Beyond the Basics
 What's your preference?
 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
Follow us on Facebook

 Moderated by: Ron   (Admins )

 
User Options
Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Admin Print Send ECard
Passions in Poetry

What's your preference?

 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


0 posted 02-01-2001 10:00 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

So do you use HTML (see forum above) or do you use a WYSIWYG software?
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


1 posted 02-01-2001 10:20 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

All three
Poet deVine
Administrator
Member Empyrean
since 05-26-99
Posts 25869
Hurricane Alley


2 posted 02-01-2001 11:55 PM       View Profile for Poet deVine   Email Poet deVine   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Poet deVine

You use FrontPage right, Ron? I tried it and didn't care for it..

this site was done using it:
http://www.geocities.com/wellesley/garden/3337

Nicole
Senior Member
since 06-23-99
Posts 1896
Florida


3 posted 02-02-2001 01:13 AM       View Profile for Nicole   Email Nicole   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Nicole

I prefer HTML

(who woulda guessed?!)

Thing is though, I've never used a wysiwyg - and I've heard that there are a couple out there that are pretty nifty.  I like the control I have when coding in HTML; editors tend to add a lot more unneeded fluff that serves only one purpose - to make the file size bigger.
fractal007
Member Elite
since 06-01-2000
Posts 2032


4 posted 02-02-2001 04:38 AM       View Profile for fractal007   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for fractal007

I prefer HTML.  I think that WYSIWYG editors are cheating.  LOL, sorry if I'm offending anyone.  

I want to be a programmer, so I want to climb the hard steps of the ladder like everyone else, and not be dependant on some big corporation to help me make webpages.  Besides, I can already cook up some descent javascript enabled pages.
Christopher
Moderator
Member Rara Avis
since 08-02-99
Posts 9130
Purgatorial Incarceration


5 posted 02-02-2001 06:10 AM       View Profile for Christopher   Email Christopher   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Christopher

HTML - I'm not smart enough to use a WYSIWYG.  

Program of preference for that is HomeSite... they're on version... 4.52 now I think. Coupled with that is TopStyle Lite, which is a very handy CSS editor!

Chris

This site was done using HomeSite and TopSyle:
http://www.countlesshorizons.com/
DragonFang
Senior Member
since 03-09-2000
Posts 525
Missouri, USA


6 posted 02-02-2001 04:23 PM       View Profile for DragonFang   Email DragonFang   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DragonFang's Home Page   View IP for DragonFang

I work with just HTML, WYSIWYG always ends up doing funky stuff to my pages. Though, I DO have Dream Weaver on my other comp *looks sadly at his other comp which his dad STILL hasn't taken in to get fixed... sighs* 'Ell, I have all the macro media programs on that comp *cries* I want it fixed.



"Sa souvraya niende missian ye." \
I am lost in my own mind.

Craig
Senior Member
since 06-10-99
Posts 882


7 posted 02-02-2001 05:33 PM       View Profile for Craig   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Craig


FrontPage, Dreamweaver, Flash 5 and notepad only if I need to.

WYSIWYG Ė generally isnít but those types of editors make it so easy to build pages fast that I canít NOT use them. Iíll be given a fifteen or twenty page section of Intranet to knock together in a day - so Iím all for anything that makes life easier. I work with ASP builders who write in simple text editors but they generally have weeks to finish a project, which is OK, but guess who ends up Ďtartingí them up before they go live.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


8 posted 02-02-2001 10:12 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I agree with Craig. Writing HTML by hand is like writing the Great American Novel with a quill pen and six inches of ruled paper. It can be done, it has been done, it even sounds romantic - but it ain't necessarily very efficient. Any writer who values their time will learn to use a word processor. And web designer with similar values will find a good WYSIWYG program.

Yes, even the best programs will produce bloated code, with unnecessary tags (usually font tags). So what? You're often talking a few score bytes per page, usually not enough to worry about. And in those cases where it does matter, it's still better to use the WYSIWYG and then strip the redundant tags.

However, in spite of that, I still end up coding a lot of HTML by hand - because it's embedded in the programs that run the forums. Athena technically creates all these web pages, but only because I showed her how I wanted it done. Unfortunately, I haven't yet found a WYSIWYG environment for Perl or C.  

A program like FrontPage or Dreamweaver really comes into its own, though, when you're talking not about page design, but rather site management. As sites grow, they almost inevitably need to be reorganized - but creating a new subdirectory and moving a hundred pages into can be a bit daunting when you have change all those links by hand. A good program will manage that nightmare for you, automatically changing links in a thousand pages when you start moving things around. I've reorganized the main site three times in two years and, with about 18,000 pages, you can well imagine how long it would have taken by hand.

Passions is a little unusual, though, and that's the reason I answered "all three" in my earlier response. I use a WYSIWYG program (FrontPage) to create templates, which are then edited and fine-tuned by hand (only because I know there's going to be a LOT of pages using them), then loaded into a database system - which also contains all the poetry submitted (and votes, and subscriptions, and author data, etc). The database program then generates all the core pages, from menus, to poems, to votes and author indexes, insuring that all the read-next-poem links are lined up in neat little rows. The disadvantage to this system is that I don't "add" pages to the main site, but rather upload the entire site every time the poetry is updated. It would be much easier on me to maintain the poetry database on Ceres (or, eventually, Athena) and let the server create the pages on demand. But what would be easier on me would probably kill the poor server. Delivering static HTML is almost nothing to Ceres, a simple read and pass it out the door. Creating pages, for the amount of traffic the main site see, would need a whole server farm.

So, yea, I use all three.  

(Craig, this is for you. If you open Notepad more than once a month, this is definitely worth the download time. TextPad )
Stephanos
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Member Elite
since 07-31-2000
Posts 3496
Statesboro, GA, USA


9 posted 02-02-2001 11:09 PM       View Profile for Stephanos   Email Stephanos   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Stephanos's Home Page   View IP for Stephanos

I figured that I wanted to focus more on writing poetry than on web-site design, so I (being totally ignorant of HTML) chose to begin with a WYSIWYG program and not learn HTML.  Now I do want to learn the basics of HTML, but so far I love Dreamweaver/ Fireworks4 studio.  I can do everything I want to do with this type program.  Though it's taking me a while to learn the ins and outs,  I am getting there and will be publishing my own personal poetry site soon.  
Nicole
Senior Member
since 06-23-99
Posts 1896
Florida


10 posted 02-03-2001 01:30 AM       View Profile for Nicole   Email Nicole   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Nicole

I completely agree with using a wysiwyg when you deal with the scale of creation that, say like, Ron and Craig do.  LOL Of course, I would never assume to tell someone they're "wrong" for creating a web site in whatever way they want.  To each, his own.  Yanno?  For what I personally do, HTML does fine - using an editor wouldn't help me.  What's most important to me personally, I guess, is knowing how to do something myself (HTML, Programming, whatever) - I like to learn too much to let an editor do it for me.
Ron
Administrator
Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


11 posted 02-03-2001 02:40 AM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

Is anyone here old enough to remember Word Star? Or even the old DOS version of Word Perfect?

Compared to those, learning HTML is a walk in the park. A very short walk.  
Dopey Dope
Deputy Moderator 1 Tour
Moderator
Member Laureate
since 08-30-2000
Posts 15536
San Juan, Puerto Rico


12 posted 02-03-2001 12:35 PM       View Profile for Dopey Dope   Email Dopey Dope   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Dopey Dope

Whatever is works best.....I'm not much a computer buff.



I was born myself, raised myself, and will continue to be myself. The world will just have to adjust.

I'm in love with my shadow
I admire it daily
DragonFang
Senior Member
since 03-09-2000
Posts 525
Missouri, USA


13 posted 02-03-2001 01:45 PM       View Profile for DragonFang   Email DragonFang   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit DragonFang's Home Page   View IP for DragonFang

Yeah, I'll agree that working in just plain HTML takes a bit of time to get a site up, but then, I usualy have nothing better to do and don't feel like bothering with an editor. The one thing I DO use, is the microsoft intergrated studios. Which is, primarly, a compiler for C/C++, but the fact that it changes the tags and attributes different colors from the rest of the stuff really helps me keep from making hundreds of stupid little errors and having to track them down.

"Sa souvraya niende missian ye." \
I am lost in my own mind.

Nan
Administrator
Member Seraphic
since 05-20-99
Posts 24426
Cape Cod Massachusetts USA


14 posted 02-04-2001 09:11 AM       View Profile for Nan   Email Nan   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Nan's Home Page   View IP for Nan

I use whatever works best for the page I'm building... Invariably I find myself using Frontpage (I also have Claris/WYSIWYG, but it's quite limiting) - then I make adjustments with html... It seems though, that no matter how much I learn, there's ALWAYS exponentially more that I need to ingest...
Colin
Senior Member
since 06-05-99
Posts 612
Callington, Cornwall, England


15 posted 02-04-2001 10:34 AM       View Profile for Colin   Email Colin   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Colin

I mainly use coffee cup wysiwyg and then tweek the html for making pages.

And Ron, I remember word perfect for dos. *cringe* I just know I'm going to have nightmares tonight now  

Colin.

Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them. - Bill Vaughan
Not A Poet
Member Elite
since 11-03-1999
Posts 4427
Oklahoma, USA


16 posted 02-05-2001 04:44 PM       View Profile for Not A Poet   Email Not A Poet   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Not A Poet's Home Page   View IP for Not A Poet

Geez Ron, I remember the original Word Perfect, the Data General version. Even sold several copies at thousands of dollars each long before the DOS version came around.

Pete
FlyHigh
Member
since 06-21-2000
Posts 85
Bekkestua, Norway


17 posted 02-07-2001 07:55 AM       View Profile for FlyHigh   Email FlyHigh   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for FlyHigh

I use several tools when I design websites.
I use EditPadPro (advanced notepad thingie) for the html coding, TopStyle 2 Lite for CSS, and Photoshop and Imageready for graphics.

A year ago I was rather fond of HomeSite (HTML) and I had my Dreamweaver-period(WYSIWYG).

Geir the webdesign-addict

--
"Luck affects everything. Let your hook always be cast; in the stream where you least expect it there will be a fish."
Ovid (BC 43-18 AD)

Alicat
Member Elite
since 05-23-99
Posts 4277
Coastal Texas


18 posted 02-07-2001 12:53 PM       View Profile for Alicat   Email Alicat   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Alicat

O Gawd, Ron...you just had to take it back there, eh? Sheesh...yeah, I remember WordStar, even learned it along with QBasic, DBase, and an antiquated Lotus 1-2-3. I also recall how happy I was when WordPerfect 5 came out. Oh, but those halcyon days with my C-128 daisied to 3 drives, dot printer, and secondary ML keyboard using a hybrid prog emulator mimicing the Apple layout....each miniscule prog app and support app on it's own 5.25, all 42 of em.....and that beloved TRS-80 on which I learned data entry......oh, them where the days.....

[This message has been edited by Alicat (edited 02-07-2001).]
 
 Post A Reply Post New Topic   Go to the Next Oldest/Previous Topic Return to Topic Page Go to the Next Newest Topic 
All times are ET (US) Top
  User Options
>> Tech Talk >> Beyond the Basics >> What's your preference? Format for Better Printing EMail to a Friend Not Available
Print Send ECard

 

pipTalk Home Page | Main Poetry Forums

How to Join | Member's Area / Help | Private Library | Search | Contact Us | Today's Topics | Login
Discussion | Tech Talk | Archives | Sanctuary



© Passions in Poetry and netpoets.com 1998-2013
All Poetry and Prose is copyrighted by the individual authors