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Passions in Poetry

Sorry about that, ambassador....

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Balladeer
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0 posted 10-09-2012 02:22 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


(CBS News) The former head of a Special Forces "Site Security Team" in Libya tells CBS News that in spite of multiple pleas from himself and other U.S. security officials on the ground for "more, not less" security personnel, the State Department removed as many as 34 people from the country in the six months before the terrorist attack in Benghazi that killed Ambassador Chris Stevens and three others.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57527659/ex-u.s-security-team-leader-in-libya-we-needed-more-not-less-security-staff/

Is it so hard to imagine how Democrats would be screaming for  a  republican president's head if this happened under his watch???? Are there no democrats outraged by this????
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1 posted 10-09-2012 11:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/10/state-dept-holds-conference-call-on-benghazi-terror-attack-excludes-fox-news/
Huan Yi
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2 posted 10-10-2012 12:52 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

http://freebeacon.com/logan-a-major-lie-is-being-told-about-afghanistan/


In the clip Lara Logan talks about Benghazi
which to her is just another part of the whole
warm and fuzzy BS being fed us.

.
Local Rebel
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3 posted 10-10-2012 04:00 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Reading the entire article Mike, I'd say I'll have to hold my outrage until there is justifiable, quantifiable data coming out of multiple investigations.

Hearsay testimony from someone 400 miles remote from the action might make for good headlines, but it's pretty lousy for finding out what was actually going on.

it's great too, for Fox News' favorite reporting technique of couching alternate reality anecdotes with the phrase "some say".  Some, may say, anything.  Doesn't make it true.
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4 posted 10-10-2012 05:38 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

“A couple of days after the Benghazi fiasco, I wrote here:

The 400-strong assault force in Benghazi showed up with RPGs and mortars: That’s not a spontaneous movie protest; that’s an act of war, and better planned and executed than the dying superpower’s response to it. Secretary Clinton and General Dempsey are, to put it mildly, misleading the American people when they suggest otherwise.

Four weeks on, the official spokespersons of the government of the United States are belatedly catching up to this third-rate foreign hack’s version of events. The State Department has now conceded that there was no movie protest at all, and that it was, in fact, one of the most sophisticated military attacks ever launched at a diplomatic facility.

Both these very obvious points were surely known to Washington by 6 a.m. Eastern on Wednesday September 12, by which time the surviving consulate staff had been evacuated to Tripoli. Yet Ambassador Rice, President Obama, et al., were still blaming the video days later. “

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/329878/disgrace-benghazi-contd-mark-steyn

.
Balladeer
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5 posted 10-10-2012 06:06 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Your wish is being granted,reb, with the current congressional investigation going on and it has nothing to do with Fox news, except that they will be the only ones to report and show the hearings until the mainstreamers have no choice but to join in.

Right now the administration is falling all over itself with lies and excuses in a CYA attempt. They are not doing a very good job of it.
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6 posted 10-10-2012 09:27 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFf0dUH3OtU
Balladeer
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7 posted 10-10-2012 11:06 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Mother of Slain State Dept. Official Tired of Being Lied To and Stonewalled by Obama Administration
9:01 PM, Oct 10, 2012 • By DANIEL HALPER


COOPER: do you feel that you know what happened or are you still searching for answers. have you been in contact with the state department?


SMITH: that is a funny subject. i begged them to tell me what happened. i said i want to know all the details all of the details no matter what it is and i'll make up my own mind on it. and all the big shots over there told me that they promised me that they would tell me what happened. as soon as they figure it out. no one not one person has ever, ever gotten back to me other than media people and the gaming people.

SMITH: you will love this. obama told me, hillary promised me. joe biden was a pressure and a real sweetheart. they all told me that -- they promised me. i told them please, tell me what happened. just tell me what happened.


SMITH: no, i don't. i look at tv and i see bloody hand prints on walls thinking is that my son's? i don't know. they haven't told me anything. they are still studying it. and the thing that is they are telling me are outright lies. that susan rise, she talked to me personally and she said this is the way it was. it was -- it was because of this film that came out.


COOPER: so she told you personally that she thought it was a result of the video of the protest.

SMITH: oh, absolutely. in fact all of them did. all of them did. leon panetta actually took my face in his hands like this and he said trust me. i will tell you what happened. and so far, he's told me nothing. nothing at all. and i want to know.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mother-slain-state-dept-official-tired-being-lied-and-stonewalled-obama-administration_654163.html?page=1


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8 posted 10-13-2012 05:01 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
the State Department removed as many as 34 people from the country in the six months before the terrorist attack in Benghazi

Whoever decided to do that deserves a medal, it’s just a pity he/she didn’t go the whole hog and remove them all.

It would be interesting to hear how many additional potential victims the former head of the Special Forces "Site Security Team" in Libya would have been willing to sacrifice.

.
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9 posted 10-13-2012 08:09 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Those people pulled out were security personnel, leaving them with even less security at a time they were begging for more. A medal? They deserve jail time.
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10 posted 10-13-2012 10:35 AM       View Profile for moonbeam   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for moonbeam

Perhaps they simply didn't factor in the stupidity of people at home making provocative movies and thereby endangering everyone.  
Local Rebel
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11 posted 10-13-2012 01:21 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Jail time?  You mean for the Republican congress that cut 300 million out of the embassy security budget?
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12 posted 10-13-2012 06:37 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

moonbeam, please don't tell me you still think it had anything to do with the movie...you are smarter than that.

Reb, don't even bother going there. That lame excuse was shot down as soon as it was offered and I have little doubt you know that's not a valid excuse.

Why do you fellows stretch so far to make excuses for the obvious and inexcusable? I don't get it.
Local Rebel
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13 posted 10-13-2012 08:35 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Mike, if you think I know that then, do you also think I know it's the job of the host country to provide protection for our people?  

What I find outrageous at this point is how quickly your fellow ideologues have politicized the deaths of our people without even having the facts.  One fact is quite clear though, and that is that the congress shorted  the administration's requested embassy security budget by 300 million.  Why that doesn't seem outrageous to you is as abundantly clear, considering your general lack of outrage over the weapons of mass destruction we never found in Iraq, the billions squandered there, and loss of life and limb.

I'm still waiting for the apology to Eric Holder for all of the fast and furious accusations so quickly and furiously hurled at him.

I'm sure you'll forgive me if I'm not so fast to jump on accused car theif Issa's outrage train this time either.
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14 posted 10-13-2012 09:13 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer


Interesting how WMDs and Iraq can find their way into any conversation, no matter how removed they are.

What I find outregeous is how you disregard the facts while the facts are publicly known.

Fact:       Libya states the attack was organized and orchestrated and co-ordinated by advanced planning.

Fact:    The State Department claimed within 24 hours that it was a terrrorist attack.

Fact:    Hillary Clinton, after claiming it was because of the video, claimed it was a terrorist attack.

Fact:    There were no crowds or rioting at the time of the attack.

Fact:    The Ambassodor had sent 12-15 requests for additional security, due to the dangerous situation there.

Fact:   Those requests were denied.

Fact:   The anniversary of 9/11 marked embassies as possible terrorist targets, enough so that extra security measures should have been taken....especially since the DNC had pounded their chests about the killing of Bin Laden only weeks before.

Fact:    Due to the refused  security help, the Ambassador and his bodyguards are dead.

Fact: There were over 150 marines at the Paris embassy. Obviously there was enough funding for them.

Fact:   That idiot woman who refused the extra security requests said she did so because they wanted the Libyans to be the ones stepping up to provide security....and, if they didn't, well, goodbye, Ambassador.

Those are your facts, LR....disregard them if you like but it doesn't change them. You cannot even refute them. They are a matter of record.

Outrageous?? The whole situation was outrageous.  Trying to absolve the administration's part in it is outrageous.  Biden said they will find out who is responsible for the ambassador's death. All they have to do is look in the mirror. They are as guilty as the terrorists who pulled the triggers.  I daresay that if the administration were republican, you would agree.

Holder?? In a sane world he would be in jail.

Local Rebel
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15 posted 10-14-2012 04:30 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Definition of FACT

1
: a thing done: as
a obsolete : feat
b : crime
c archaic : action
2
archaic : performance, doing
3
: the quality of being actual : actuality
4
a : something that has actual existence
b : an actual occurrence
5
: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
— in fact
: in truth


By definition your disposition is factually challenged. The very first of which is that I am disregarding publicly known facts.  In order to make such a claim you would first have to obtain a stipulation of what the facts are.  As the investigations are ongoing the findings of fact are not complete.

That I have not shared your conclusions is not tantamount to disregard.

Furthermore, your 'facts' as presented, are rife with your personal, unfounded, conclusions.  (and they say white men can't jump!)

For example:

quote:
Fact:    Due to the refused  security help, the Ambassador and his bodyguards are dead.


You have no evidence to assert additional personnel would have resulted in a different outcome.  The result could have simply been a higher body count.

You're drawing a conclusion here, not asserting a fact.

There are too many instances of this for me to go through them point by point.

Marines stationed at embassies are not there to protect embassy staff.  Their mission is to protect sensitive documents.  How many sensitive documents do you think we would store in Libya vs. Paris?  They are not security personnel.


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16 posted 10-14-2012 09:50 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

True enough...what you pointed out was a possible conclusion on my part. There is no way of knowing if the Ambassador would have not died with more protection. I could defend it by stating that, logically, the more protections that is given reduces the chances of bad things happening but, as I said, I'll concede the point. The other facts are....factual.

It seems that democrats are more interesting in finding someone to blame more than preventing bad things happening. Obama, of course, is the king of "It's not my fault!!!" and your claim that national should be the ones proving security for Americans in their country is more of the same. Ok, well, sorry Ambassador's wife. It wasn't our fault. Blame the Libyans. That should provide her with some comfort. Perhaps they can even make some copies of those documents in Paris all of those marines are guarding and give them to her as a reminder of what's really important.

If it is true that we have no obligation to protect our people in foreign countries....even on dates like the anniversary of 9/11 in hostile countries, then our priorities are really screwed up. I suggest then that when the president or members of congress go over to Libya, Afghanistan or such countries, they should not take a security force with them for protection. After all, the countries they visit will provide the security, right? We could save a lot of travel expenses. right, reb?

Our ambassadors should expect, and get, protection when they send out an SOS. No amount of excuses, double-talk or evasion changes that.
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17 posted 10-14-2012 11:06 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

As a student of history Mike, I'm sure you remember an incident at the Alamo.  An embassy isn't a military base, it's not even a fort.  When you're  an island inside a foreign country without protection from the host country, you're never going to have enough resources to provide 'security'.  The most likely outcome of a larger security detail would have merely been a more protracted event.

Democrats didn't start this thread.  Democrats didn't start trying to use the dead as political footballs.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/romney-reveals-link-consulate-attack-libya-article-1.1179143

Another example of your unfounded conclusions, which I very poorly handled in my last post, for which I apologize, is in regards to the quantity of marines in Paris and the budget implications you mentioned.  Marines are in the Navy.  One of those armed forces that are part of the DoD, not the State Dept.  Hilary doesn't sign their checks.  Panetta does.  It's a buckets of money thing.

The 300 million cut isn't a blame thing Mike.  It's a glass houses thing.

Now, why don't we let the car thief finish his work?
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18 posted 10-14-2012 11:41 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

quote:


The father of Christopher Stevens, the U.S. ambassador to Libya who was killed in the attack in Benghazi last month, said his son's death shouldn't be politicized in the presidential campaign.

"It would really be abhorrent to make this into a campaign issue," Jan Stevens, 77, said in a telephone interview from his home in Loomis, California, as he prepares for a memorial service for his son next week.

Mitt Romney, the Republican nominee, has criticized President Barack Obama for not providing adequate security in Libya, saying the administration has left the country exposed to a deadly terrorist attack.


The ambassador's father, a lawyer, said politicians should await the findings of a formal investigation before making accusations or judgments.


The ambassador's father, a lawyer, said politicians should await the findings of a formal investigation before making accusations or judgments.

"The security matters are being adequately investigated," Stevens said. "We don't pretend to be experts in security. It has to be objectively examined. That's where it belongs. It does not belong in the campaign arena." Stevens said he has been getting briefings from the State Department on the progress of the investigation.

'Very Optimistic' Stevens said while he was close with his son, "we weren't that familiar with the day-to-day activities" he undertook in Libya. On the occasions when his son called home, Stevens said, he didn't share many details about his work other than to say that "he was very optimistic about the results of the election and the new government." They last spoke by phone in August and by e-mail days before his son's death.

Stevens, a registered Democrat, said he isn't politically active. He declined to say how he'll vote in the presidential election.

He said his son, who was a career diplomat and had worked for Republican and Democratic presidents, hadn't expressed concerns to him about security or support from the administration. "He felt very strongly about Secretary Clinton," Stevens said, referring to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "He felt she was an extremely able person." As for whether he had the tools and protection he needed for his job, Stevens said of his son: "We didn't get into that" sort of discussion. "I never heard him say a critical word about the State Department or the administration, or any administration for that matter. He came up through the foreign service, not politics." Obama Call Stevens said neither of the two presidential campaigns reached out to him, and that he is grateful for that. He said Obama telephoned him after his son's death to express his regrets and talk about identifying the perpetrators who should be brought to justice, and that the conversation was in the context of his presidential duties and not political.

.......

Neither the administration's initial public report that the attack began with a spontaneous demonstration against an anti- Islamic video clip nor Republican suggestions that it was a planned attack tied to al-Qaeda are supported by U.S. intelligence reports or by accounts of the night provided to a Bloomberg reporter by Benghazi residents.

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters that "the president wants to get to the bottom of what happened." Carney also sought to minimize questions about why the president and other administration officials were slow to publicly acknowledge the role of terrorism in the attack.

"As time went on, additional information became available," Carney said. "Clearly, we know more today than we did on the Sunday after the attack. But as the process moves forward and more information becomes available, we will be sure to continue consulting with you."
http://newyork.newsday.com/news/nation/chris-stevens-death-in-libya-does-not-belong-in-campaign-arena-father-says-1.4111760


Tim
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19 posted 10-14-2012 03:53 PM       View Profile for Tim   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Tim

The Navy pays the detached Marines's salaries, but while serving on in an embassy or consulate, they are under the operational command of the Dept. of State, or more specifically the station head.

If the host country is responsible for security, then the issue of budget for the U.S. is irrelevant.

The host country is responsible for perimeter security.  Once you cross the threshold into the embassy or consulate, you are talking about a whole new ballgame.

I would love someone to tell a marine stationed in an embassy he does not have a duty to protect American lives.  They and the Department of State seem to think so on their websites and many who have given their lives over the course of the years in doing so in all likelihood felt the same.

If budget is an issue, I suppose you could ask why a Marine detachment was sent to the embassy in Barbados on the day of the attack in Libya.  We all know how dangerous those Barbadians are along with the Swiss.  Perhaps we could have bought a few Volts to ship to Libya to help in security?  Cheap shots, I know.

But talk of budget is alas a red herring.  

Was the refusal to provide more security caused by budget cuts to embassy security? “No, sir,” Charlene Lamb, the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for International Programs, told the committee.  Unless the Department of State committed perjury in a Congressional hearing, then the refusal to provide the requested security was for some other reason.  

A logical reason would appear to be it was not politically provident to have a military presence in Libya.  If an attack occured, no deaths of American military would occur and no deaths would be as the result of U.S. military action.  Either would not be helpful politically.

A recourse would be to outsource security to a foreign security firm who then could pay some local Libyans food money to protect the consulate as long as they weren't armed.

Why the story about the film? Even if initially the intel was wrong, (notwithstanding the fact U.S. intelligence was viewing the attack in real time with drones and the Libyan president knew from the get-go it was a terrorist attack) why keep up the misinformation when everyone clearly knew it was in error?

Even with more security, they still probably would have died?   That position I fear is contrary to pretty much every value I was taught by my father and grandfather.  I don't even know how to respond to that one.  

Perhaps a marine whose job is not to protect American lives could explain it to me.

Both sides are bringing in relatives of those killed.  How sad.  The Democrats using the Ambassodor's father and the Republicans using one of the deceased's mother.

Some issues ought not be political.  An American Embassy was attacked on the anniversary of 9/11 and Americans killed including an Ambassador.  

Quit playing politics and putting forth excuses that are on their face bogus and let the American people know what happened and not try to stall until after the election.

As to fast and furious, anyone in law enforcement or prosecution will tell you you never let drugs or guns walk.  That is aobut as close to criminal negligence as you can get.
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20 posted 10-14-2012 04:27 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

[removed]

[This message has been edited by Local Rebel (10-14-2012 06:09 PM).]

Huan Yi
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21 posted 10-14-2012 08:20 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


There’s such a disconnect between the professionals
and the politicians above them in the same administration
as to what is the real story . . .


.
Huan Yi
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22 posted 10-14-2012 09:37 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“‘The entire reason that this has become the political topic it is is because of Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.”

Thus, Stephanie Cutter, President Obama’s deputy campaign manager, speaking on CNN about an armed attack on the 9/11 anniversary that left a U.S. consulate a smoking ruin and killed four diplomatic staff, including the first American ambassador to be murdered in a third of a century. To discuss this event is apparently to “politicize” it and to distract from the real issues the American people are concerned about. For example, Obama spokesperson Jen Psaki, speaking on board Air Force One on Thursday: “There’s only one candidate in this race who is going to continue to fight for Big Bird and Elmo, and he is riding on this plane.”

She’s right! The United States is the first nation in history whose democracy has evolved to the point where its leader is provided with a wide-body transatlantic jet in order to campaign on the vital issue of public funding for sock puppets. Sure, Caligula put his horse in the senate, but it was a real horse. At Ohio State University, the rapper will.i.am introduced the president by playing the Sesame Street theme tune, which oddly enough seems more apt presidential-walk-on music for the Obama era than “Hail to the Chief.””

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/330299/who-s-politicizing-benghazi-mark-steyn  


That's what's so terrbile . . .
Being a joke.


.
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23 posted 10-14-2012 10:48 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

"Neither the administration's initial public report that the attack began with a spontaneous demonstration against an anti- Islamic video clip nor Republican suggestions that it was a planned attack tied to al-Qaeda are supported by U.S. intelligence reports or by accounts of the night provided to a Bloomberg reporter by Benghazi residents."

Actually they are, both by investigation and video.
"White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters that "the president wants to get to the bottom of what happened." Carney also sought to minimize questions about why the president and other administration officials were slow to publicly acknowledge the role of terrorism in the attack."

Yes, the investigation will be very slow, like at least until after the election.

The ambassador asked for help. It was denied. The ambassador was killed in a planned attack. It is all Romney's fault for wanting to know what happened. Sure, ok.

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24 posted 10-15-2012 01:34 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

  Today the confusion only worsened yet again when Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told reporters that her agency was not the source of misinformation concerning the attacks, charging instead that the White House was the source of the false mantra that the murders were spurred by an anti-Muslim film made in the United States.
    Clinton told reporters that when Susan Rice, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, made her rounds on every Sunday morning news show to claim the film motivated the attacks, the information had been fed to her by the White House and not the intelligence community in the State Department or the CIA.
    Not only does Clinton’s statement contradict early White House accounts but directly contradicts statements made by Vice President Biden during the debate.
    Biden claimed that the White House had only repeated the information provided by the intelligence community and that no one had been informed of the facts concerning the nature of the attacks and their connection to al Qaeda terrorism.
http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2012/10/uh-oh-hillary-clinton-blames-wh-for-false-statement-on-libyan-attack-2503394.html


The finger pointing is going to get brutal...I don't think I would want to upset Hillary too much
 
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