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Obamacare

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Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


50 posted 07-17-2012 01:15 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
I hope it's not true, Grinch. FactCheck doesn't exactly lay the matter to rest for me


Do you mean that you still don’t believe the caller was lying or that you acknowledge that he was lying but still believe that the US government is planning to set up ‘Death Panels’?

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Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


51 posted 07-17-2012 05:19 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2907313/posts


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Denise
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since 08-22-99
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52 posted 07-18-2012 08:58 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I don't know if the caller was legitimate or not, Grinch. I suspect that he may have been given that Levin, an attorney, still has not removed it from his archives, and did state that he had vetted the caller.

I also suspect that Obamacare will go the way of Great Britain's system (one example in the article at John's link) when all the dollars disappear. Yes, there will be rationing, and it will hit the oldest, youngest and those with disabilites the hardest....the way it always seems to go under socialized medicine.

How do you think they will handle things with $700 Billion being syphoned from Medicare just as the rolls swell with the baby-boomers?
Denise
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53 posted 07-18-2012 09:05 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

From the article at John's link:

“What is particularly disturbing about Professor Gillon’s opinions is that he is judging certain disabled people as having lives unworthy of life, balancing those lives against the needs of other patients and seeking to justify killing the disabled on the grounds of rationing,” Ozimic told LifeSiteNews.com.

“Such a utilitarian calculus is in substance no difference to the calculus made during World War II by the German authorities: that the disabled should die so that wounded soldiers could live. In any case, assisted food and fluids are basic nursing care, not futile medical treatments.”

Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


54 posted 07-19-2012 02:59 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
I don't know if the caller was legitimate or not, Grinch.


You believe the caller, who said he was a neurosurgeon (but isn’t), who said he was at seminar for neurosurgeons (but wasn’t) who further claims he received a document about withholding care from patients over 70 (that doesn’t exist) is legitimate?

Well I guess you’re free to believe whoever and whatever you want to believe Denise. Personally I prefer to believe real brain surgeons rather than a random idiot claiming to be a brain surgeon:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Alison Dye
January 10, 2012 (202) 446-2028 adye@neurosurgery.org

Neurosurgeons Condemn False Assertions Made About Health Reform Law on Mark Levin Show

Refute Statements that the Law Would Ration Neurosurgical Care for the Elderly

Washington, DC – On November 22, 2011, an individual claiming to be a “brain surgeon” made several statements referencing neurosurgical care on a Mark Levin radio show segment. The American Association of Neurological Surgeons (AANS) and the Congress of Neurological Surgeons (CNS) reviewed this segment and found that it contained several factual inaccuracies which we wish to clarify.

The AANS and CNS are unaware of any federal government document directing that advanced neurosurgery for patients over 70 years of age will not be indicated and only supportive care treatment will be provided. Furthermore, in conducting our own due diligence, the caller who identified himself as a brain surgeon is not actually a neurosurgeon, nor was there any session at the recent Congress of Neurological Surgeons’ scientific meeting in Washington, DC at which a purported government document calling for the rationing of neurosurgical care was discussed.

Neurosurgeons are committed to providing timely, compassionate, and state of the art treatment for all patients -- regardless of age -- who have neurosurgical conditions. As such, we have requested numerous times that this podcast be removed from Mark Levin’s website as it portrays inaccurate information which could potentially be harmful to the patients that we serve.

The American Association of Neurological Surgeons (AANS), founded in 1931, and the Congress of Neurological Surgeons (CNS), founded in 1951, are the two largest scientific and educational associations for neurosurgical professionals in the world. These groups represent over 8,000 neurosurgeons worldwide. Neurological surgery is the medical specialty concerned with the prevention, diagnosis, treatment and rehabilitation of disorders that affect the entire nervous system, including the spinal column, spinal cord, brain and peripheral nerves. For more information, please visit www.aans.org  or www.cns.org.

http://www.cns.org/advocacy/wc/pdf/MarkLevinStatementFINAL.PDF

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Denise
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56 posted 07-19-2012 05:59 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Maybe the guy was a whistleblower. It's possible. If so, it isn't likely that the associations wouldn't disavow what he said.

In any event, whether he was legitimate or not, just because they claim they are unaware of any govenrment document like that mandating paliative care only under certain circumstances doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or will not exist in the near future hidden among the 13,000 and counting pages of new healthcare regulations courtesy of Sebelius that are being piggy-backed onto the law (just as the law was designed).

As such, we have requested numerous times that this podcast be removed from Mark Levin’s website as it portrays inaccurate information which could potentially be harmful to the patients that we serve.

How exactly is this 'misinformation' potentially harmful to the patients that they serve? They will only be harmed if they are actually refused life-saving care. If, in fact, this is indeed misinformation, and they do continue to receive life-saving care, then they won't be harmed. If by harmed they mean the patient may become concerned and upset about whether it is true or not, then all they have to do is ask their neurosurgeon.

How do you suppose that the Medicare shortfall will be handled when the money runs out, in light of the swelling of the rolls and the simultaneous syphoning of $700 Billion from Medicare to fund Obamacare, if not for severe Qual/Life System rationing?

Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


57 posted 07-19-2012 07:46 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
In any event, whether he was legitimate or not, just because they claim they are unaware of any govenrment document like that mandating paliative care only under certain circumstances doesn't mean it doesn't exist


It means that it’s extremely unlikely to exist Denise; it also means that such a document certainly hasn’t been circulated to neurosurgeons but what it definitely proves is that the dipstick caller was lying.

quote:
How exactly is this 'misinformation' potentially harmful to the patients that they serve?


It’s potentially harmful because it may deter some old folk from seeking medical attention based on the ludicrously false information that there’s a ‘death panel’ of neurosurgeons out there intent on killing them. Propagating the notion that neurosurgeons are actively going to harm old folk is not only irresponsible it’s also an undeserved slur of a fine body of medical professionals who do exactly the opposite of what they’re being accused of.

quote:
syphoning of $700 Billion from Medicare to fund Obamacare,


As I’ve already pointed out the total Medicare costs in 2011 were $555 billion and are projected to rise to $903 billion in 2020, the ACA includes provisions to increase quality of service but cut costs to make more than $424 billion in net savings over a ten year period.

So they’re going to save $424 billion, the Republicans say they can save more without increasing the quality of service and I believe that they could. Would that be classed as “syphoning” funds from Medicare too?

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Denise
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Member Seraphic
since 08-22-99
Posts 23002


58 posted 07-21-2012 08:50 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Grinch, patients don't actually 'seek out' neurosurgeons in the situation that the caller was referring to.....and therefore would not forego seeking treatment out of fear that neurosurgeons are trying to harm them. The gist of the call was that emergency treatment for strokes/brain bleeds at 2 AM in the morning would be in jeopardy since bureaucratic pre-approval would be required. I hope that such a protocol does not exist, but call me a skeptic. NOTHING that this administration has done has been transparent or above board, in my opinion.

How do you suppose that the ACA will improve quality of service while at the same time cutting costs? After how we now see that ACA does NOT lower healthcare costs, insurance premiums, OR allow us to 'keep our own plans and doctors' if we like them, again, call me skeptical.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


59 posted 07-30-2012 09:02 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/312573/britain-s-nhs-no-fun-and-games-john-fund
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