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Obamacare

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Denise
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25 posted 07-10-2012 07:55 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

No, I have to leave the analysis to those who actually understand what is in the 2700 pages plus the ongoing addition of regulations, currently at over 13,000 pages and counting. I've tried to read it but the legalese is beyond my ability to understand. I have heard similar claims by other financial analysts who have waded through it though.
Ron
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26 posted 07-10-2012 09:06 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

I don't think you necessarily have to read all the legalese, Denise, to understand what's happening. You DO, however, have to refuse to listen to people who have already made up their minds and are intent only on swaying others to their side. Or, at least, listen to BOTH sides of the fence with equally critical evaluation.

It's honestly not that hard to find good information.

quote:
Most people with incomes up to four times the poverty level - which currently comes out to $44,680 for an individual or $92,200 for a family of four - will qualify for some help paying for private insurance. Aid drops off sharply as income climbs, and younger people get smaller subsidies than older folks whose insurance rates are higher.

The lowest earners shouldn't have to pay more than 2 percent of their incomes toward insurance premiums for mid-level plans; those at the high end would have to contribute 9.5 percent. These plans also have significant co-pays and deductibles, but some help is available there, too.


Health Care Options for Young, Healthy, Broke from Associated Press


Balladeer
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27 posted 07-11-2012 12:41 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I confess to be at a loss. I read in your link, Ron, about different "plans" and deductibles. Isn't Obamacare supposed to be free health care for all? I don't understand what the different levels mean. Apparently it stands for different levels of coverage but doesn't that go against what Obamacare is supposed to represent? I admit befuddlement..
Grinch
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28 posted 07-11-2012 01:47 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
No, I have to leave the analysis to those who actually understand what is in the 2700 pages plus the ongoing addition of regulations


That’s a reasonable philosophy Denise, if you don’t understand something deferring to someone who does understand it is totally logical but what makes you believe that this particular analyst knows what he/she is talking about?

.
Huan Yi
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29 posted 07-11-2012 02:06 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Given the bill was passed without
being wholly read and/or understood,
what makes you believe those who passed it
knew what they were doing?


.
Local Rebel
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30 posted 07-11-2012 03:19 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

On Fox news
Grinch
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31 posted 07-11-2012 03:48 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
Given the bill was passed without
being wholly read and/or understood,
what makes you believe those who passed it
knew what they were doing?


Who said they knew what they were doing?

Denise
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32 posted 07-13-2012 09:39 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I'll take information from any source and determine for myself if I think it seems legitimate.

As for 'some help' for us lower income folks, that could still mean substantially more than I pay now. I won't know for sure until they define 'some help'.

Also, folks can't rely on being found Medicaid eligible since Chief Justice Roberts affirmed States rights not to participate in expanding Medicaid. I think 26 States so far have said they will not participate.

And health plans offered under the law will limit individuals' out-of-pocket expenses to about $6,250 per year or less — a bulwark against gigantic, unexpected medical bills.

And the above is a joke, right? Seriously? Right now my out of pocket expenses are limited to my co-pays. $20 for Primary Doctor, $40 for Specialist and $200 for the Emergency room, with hospitalization covered at 100%, if admitted. This would be no bargain for me if I get thrown into one of those government plans.

This whole convoluted mess that few understand needs to be repealed and they need to start over and address ONLY those items that need fixing....not the current takeover of the entire industries of healthcare and insurance. The Federal government needs to get out of our choices and our pocketbooks.

As it stands now this just seems like the newest way for the government to rape the taxpayer. I believe it allocates funds to pay for an additional 16,000 plus IRS agents. It also guts Medicare of $700 Billion to partially fund Obamacare. That doesn't bode well for us baby boomers coming of age.
Balladeer
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33 posted 07-13-2012 10:10 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Still befuddled....
Denise
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34 posted 07-14-2012 09:42 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

It's not 'free', Mike. The law doesn't even live up to it's name as 'Affordable'. It's just a big government power grab. The only ones who are not subjected to it are the illegals, and those with religious objections to insurance, so I guess they will get any medical care for free without worrying about having to purchase insurance or paying a fine at tax time. Even those newly qualified for Medicaid will pay something since it's described as at 'vitually no cost'. I guess it remains to be seen if those currently on Medicaid will be hit with a federal tax.

Even those who qualify for a subsidy will have to pay the full amount upfront, probably on a monthly or quarterly basis, when they purchase the insurance and wait to be reimbursed at tax filing time.

For example, a single 26-year-old earning $16,000 might pay $537 toward the annual premium for a mid-level "silver" plan, according to estimates from the Kaiser Family Foundation. The rest of the premium would be covered by a $2,853 tax credit. (Deductibles and co-pays could cost up to an additional $2,083, depending on how much care the person needs.)

A 26-year-old earning $35,000 would pay $3,325 in premiums — $277 a month — for the same plan, after only a $66 tax credit. (And that patient might be on the hook for another $4,167 in out-of-pocket costs.)


I also wonder if this is based on gross income or adjusted gross income.

I suppose we are to take comfort from the fact that the 'penalty' (it's not a penalty according to SCOTUS...it's a TAX) can never exceed the cost of a bronze plan?

Private insurers have yet to set the prices for their 2014 plans, because coverage that will comply with the law is still being developed. The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that premiums for the bare-bones plan, called "bronze" level, might average between $4,500 and $5,000 per year. Family plans might cost $12,500 per year.

But I'm sure glad (sarcasm) that all this will be covered at 'no charge':

The plans also will cover at no charge preventive care such as HIV tests, screening for depression or alcoholism, flu shots, hepatitis vaccine, contraception and pregnancy care.

I'd prefer to pay $20 myself for a flu shot once a year (the ONLY one of these 'preventive care' options that I would need) than to have it built into my plan at 'no charge' (sarcasm again).

Nothing is free. Unless you are an illegal alien.
Grinch
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35 posted 07-14-2012 09:43 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
I'll take information from any source and determine for myself if I think it seems legitimate.

I tend to treat every piece of information as suspect until I can verify it, otherwise there’s a real danger that I’ll start to believe stuff because I want to believe it regardless of whether it’s actually true or not.

quote:
As for 'some help' for us lower income folks, that could still mean substantially more than I pay now. I won't know for sure until they define 'some help'.

They have defined it Denise there are even some online tools to calculate the subsidies.
http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspx

quote:
Also, folks can't rely on being found Medicaid eligible


I think you’ll find that most of the states will eventually join the Medicaid expansion scheme Denise but anyone not eligible for Medicaid will still be eligible for the federal subsidy scheme.

quote:
And health plans offered under the law will limit individuals' out-of-pocket expenses to about $6,250 per year or less — a bulwark against gigantic, unexpected medical bills.

And the above is a joke, right? Seriously? Right now my out of pocket expenses are limited to my co-pays. $20 for Primary Doctor, $40 for Specialist and $200 for the Emergency room, with hospitalization covered at 100%, if admitted. This would be no bargain for me if I get thrown into one of those government plans.


If that’s true Denise then you’re in a minority.

The majority of health insurance policies have co-insurance clauses in addition, or instead of,  co-pay costs, both are classed as ‘out of pocket expenses’. The normal co-insurance rate is 80/20, that means that once the agreed deductable limit is reached the insurer only pays 80% of incurred costs and the insured party pays 20%.

That means that some people find themselves with bills running into tens of thousands of dollars, some of the best policies already include caps that set a maximum out of pocket cost – the new legislation makes that a minimum standard for all policies.

quote:
I believe it allocates funds to pay for an additional 16,000 plus IRS agents


The total number of IRS agents currently employed is around 14,000; do you really believe that the ACA would require another 16,000?

quote:
It also guts Medicare of $700 Billion to partially fund Obamacare.


Total Medicare costs in 2011 were $555 billion and are projected to rise to $903 billion in 2020, the ACA includes provisions to increase quality of service but cut costs to make more than $424 billion in net savings over a ten year period.
Denise
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36 posted 07-14-2012 10:07 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I specifically chose a plan at work that didn't have the 80/20 scenario, Grinch. It was an easy choice, too, since for some reason it was the cheapest of those offered. The only difference was that I have to get a referrel from my primary to see a specialist and I have to use 'in network' doctors, specialists and facilities...no problem...all my doctors are 'in network' anyway.

Time will tell, I guess, the actual number of new IRS employees that need to be hired to facilitate the administration of Obamacare over the next 10 years. Since they've planned on needing 1200 right away I can easily assume it will be at least 10x that amount, if not more, given the federal government's record for waste and inefficiency.

Hmmmmm......I wonder where all this medicare savings will be found as the number of those eligible steadily increases. Rationing of care, maybe?
Grinch
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37 posted 07-14-2012 11:21 AM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


The savings must be possible Denise because the Republicans claim that they’d cut even more than that. The details are a little sketchy regarding how they’d do it but they include a reduction in eligibility which I guess could be classed as a form of rationing.

Of course with a finite resource rationing in one form or other is unavoidable, the options are to give all some of it or some all of it.

.
Denise
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38 posted 07-14-2012 05:27 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

The Republican plan is to give younger people the option of going with the traditional plan or going with the same plan that members of Congress have, and not changing the eligibility or coverages currently afforded to those close to Medicare age.
Grinch
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39 posted 07-14-2012 06:42 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch


quote:
The Republican plan is to give younger people the option of going with the traditional plan or going with the same plan that members of Congress have.


That’s not actually true – Paul Ryan suggested that the Republican voucher scheme was ‘modelled’ on the reimbursement scheme offered to members of Congress, however it has one fundamental but extremely important difference. Future increases in voucher value in the Congress version is linked to health care costs; the Ryan’s version is linked to inflation via the consumer price index.

That means that any increased health care cost for members of Congress is funded by the government whereas anyone on the Republican voucher scheme will have to find the difference between inflation and the rising cost of health care out of their own pocket or forego insurance.

On the upside all those unused vouchers will definitely reduce government spending on Medicare.

Denise
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40 posted 07-15-2012 05:21 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Technically everything for Congress is funded not by the government but by the taxpayers. Government doesn't have any wealth of its own. It has only what it confiscates from us. So no matter how you slice it....we pay anyway. We pay for them and we pay for ourselves. It's no wonder that 50% of those in Congress are millionaires.


Denise
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41 posted 07-16-2012 03:44 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

More Obamacare fallout for the economy:
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/companies-fire-workers-to-avoid-o-care-penalty
Huan Yi
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42 posted 07-16-2012 04:27 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Companies going to such actions
to limit or eliminate the impact should be no
surprise; expect even more in the future.
The only economy being stimulated is China’s.  


.
Denise
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43 posted 07-16-2012 04:35 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

It gets worse, John. This is what happens when you have idiots with no business sense crafting ridiculous laws. They not only destroy a good healtcare system, they destroy the economy further with their hidden taxes, employers reducing staff and insurance companies, by necessity, due to the new regulations, hiking premiums astronomically.
http://washingtonstatewire.com/blog/staggering-health-insurance-premiums-right-around-the-corner-predicts-premera-vice-president/
Denise
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44 posted 07-16-2012 04:51 PM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

...and worse:
http://www.westernjournalism.com/brain-surgeon-confirms-obamacare-rations-care-has-death-panels/
Grinch
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46 posted 07-16-2012 05:51 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

Brain surgeons won’t be able to operate or offer any help beyond ‘comfort care’ to anyone over 70?

That’s just plain twaddle Denise.

Why do people get so much pleasure out of terrifying old folk? It’s despicable if you ask me.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/01/neurological-death-panels/
Balladeer
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47 posted 07-16-2012 11:33 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I agree on the distastefulness of terrorizing onld folks....like threatening their social security and medicare.
Denise
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48 posted 07-17-2012 09:39 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

I hope it's not true, Grinch. FactCheck doesn't exactly lay the matter to rest for me, though. Also, it's strange that the video hasn't been removed from Levin's podcast archives if it is being asserted that it is not factual. Levin is an attorney. I'm sure he knows the potential ramifications for spreading false information, if that is what it is. I wonder why the Administration hasn't sued him yet if he is spreading false information? They don't hesitate in suing anyone else at the drop of a hat. Time will tell. Maybe we won't have to find out and Obamacare will be repealed.
Denise
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49 posted 07-17-2012 09:43 AM       View Profile for Denise   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Denise

Yep, they do that everytime someone mentions a budget or a debt ceiling increase, Michael.....if the Republicans don't cave to the Democrats latest outrageous demands the Democrats threaten to cut-off SS & Medicare checks, and throw in the stopping Military paychecks for good measure....and then they turn around and blame it on the Republicans.
 
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