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Passions in Poetry

What is a Nationís Obligation

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Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 01-06-2012 09:03 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


To those, despite the lack of other resources,
who donít want to work to earn a living?

My question is brought on by surveys
that suggest that large numbers of men
have chosen to abandon the workforce


.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


1 posted 01-07-2012 02:42 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




     Are you speaking of "discouraged workers?"  Those would be people who've given up looking for work in the current economic conditions.  Before trying to discuss the topic, I think that it'd be a good idea to be sure that we're trying to talk about the same group of people.

     If we are in fact talking about these people, what do we know about them before we start talking about obligation the nation has in relation to them?  I would think that the information we have about them would have a lot to do with the sense of obligation the nation or any significant portion of the nation might have, wouldn't you?

     And then ó beyond that, John ó there might be different political points of view that would apply to the basic question that I think you are proposing:  What should a right or left wing notion of the American Community ask of and require from its members?
quote:

discouraged worker ††
Definition
Person who wants, and is available for, a job (and has looked for it in the past 12 months) but is not looking now because (he or she feels) either no jobs are available or there is none for which he or she qualifies. Discouraged workers, by definition, are not included in the computation of unemployment
statistics.
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/discouraged-worker.html




  I found the article below, explaining discouraged workers as a portion of the total employment picture of some interest because I saw it as fairly straightforward economic reportage.  I remain open to a contradictory explanation of the data, but tend to believe that the data seems well presented simply because it doesnít seem to be trying to pound home any particular political agenda, Republican or Democratic:
http://lmi.ides.state.il.us/lmr/feb_10/feb10_2.htm

     I would like to pair the above article with the article below, which tries to take some of the same information and tries to put a pro-Republican spin on it without any of the background data the above article supplies.  Information that is put in appropriate context in the first article and that the first article makes plain is the least significant element in the statistics; and, in effect, doesnít have any noticeable effect on the economy at all, is, in the second article, hidden. The charts that would make the significance of the vital information, shown clearly in article one, arenít even hinted at in article two, while the misleading fact that the numbers of discouraged workers had doubled was given significant play.  The two articles really deserve to be read side by side.
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/256566/lowering-unemployment-rate-one-discouraged-worker-time
     I offer these thoughts and references as a way of thinking about the questions you seem to be suggesting worth exploring, and Iíd be interested in hearing your response, or anybodyís response to these opening thoughts.  Should you find them useful, of course.
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


2 posted 01-08-2012 07:52 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Perhaps not?
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


3 posted 01-09-2012 06:46 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


When all these men stop looking
for work does the unemployment rate
increase decrease or stay the same?

Same question when someone retires
and isn't replaced.


.
Grinch
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since 12-31-2005
Posts 2710
Whoville


4 posted 01-09-2012 07:10 PM       View Profile for Grinch   Email Grinch   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Grinch

quote:
When all these men stop looking
for work does the unemployment rate
increase decrease or stay the same?


If no jobs are added or lost and nobody left the workforce the unemployment rate would increase by roughly 90,000 per month (the number of people joining the available workforce). If the number of people who've left the available workforce exceeded 90,000 and no jobs were added or lost there'd be a net decrease and if the number of people leaving the available workforce matched exactly the number joining and no jobs were added or lost there'd be no change whatsoever.


Essorant
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since 08-10-2002
Posts 4689
Regina, Saskatchewan; Canada


5 posted 01-12-2012 12:26 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

It depends on how much the nation can afford.  The nation is the mother of the people in it and should provide for everyone indiscriminately to some extent, at least enough to try to keep all people well nourished, clad, sheltered and free from poverty.   It doesn't matter what child you are, the busy or the lazy, the mother should try to take care of you as well as she can.
 
  
 
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