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Passions in Poetry

Oh, say, Does that Al-Quaeda Banner Yet Wave.....

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Balladeer
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0 posted 10-31-2011 07:30 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055630/Nato-ends-Libya-mission-Al-Qaeda-flag-flies-Benghazi-bad-omen.html

So we have the Al-Qaeda flag flying in Libya with Sharia law being imposed and Christians being killed and burned out in Egypt.

Did we do good?

Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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1 posted 10-31-2011 11:11 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate4.html

I don't know.  Was that whole civil war thing worth it?  Probably should have just let em go.....
Bob K
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2 posted 10-31-2011 11:52 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Please explain the rules for what we are supposed to be responsible for and what we aren't supposed to be responsible for so I can give your question appropriate consideration.  The way the question appears to be stated suggests that we may be responsible for Mubarik's overthrow but not his term in officel, for  his policies about treatment of women but not for his massive supression of civil rights and so on down the line.  I have my doubts about such a line of thought.  I understand, however, that I may not understand the point of view you're trying to express well enough.

     Similarly, the points raised about al-qaeda and the Libyan situation aren't quite clear to me.

     At what point did American citizens acquire the vote in Libya?  Having disagreed at every step with offering help to Libyans who wanted to depose Kadaffi, why would we — especially the conservatives among us — suddenly acquire the right to a legitimate voice in Libyan affairs?  I disagree with our right to mess in Libyan affairs and hold that we shouldn't have done so, but as far as I know no American blood was shed there, and the benefit gained out of it was only potential and only in terms of possible oil resources.  If I want to hold that we may have purchased a right to lay some sort of claim to Libyan oil reserves or to Libyan goodwill in the disposal of their oil reserves, then maybe I'd have a leg to stand on.  Maybe.

     Libya's a muslim country.  I think Shari'ia law has limited modern utility.  I think that any country which adopts it will hobble itself significantly and doing so is a retrograde step.  I also think that hearing such a message from the United States will make it unbelievable to any country which has the sort of history with the United States that many middle-eastern countries share.  We may disagree with that point of view — I know I do — but that in itself is simply not convincing for lots of these folks.

     I'm not certain I'm convinced.
Essorant
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3 posted 11-01-2011 04:13 AM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

It is obviously a hoax:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x22098     68

It doesn't make sense to be so eager to believe what you find on the internet.  It is easier than ever to manipulate words and images and present them as fact.  If this had been true and confirmed, don't you think some newsources that are actually reputable would've reported, instead of being copied from sites like "Vice.com" or "mailonline"?  
Balladeer
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4 posted 11-01-2011 08:25 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

He followed me inside the courthouse, but luckily my driver Khaled was close by, and interceded on my behalf. According to Khaled, the guard had angrily threatened to harm me. When I again engaged him in conversation, he told me "this flag is the true flag of Islam," and was unresponsive when I argued with him that historically Islam has never been represented by a single flag. The guard claimed repeatedly that there is no al Qaeda in Libya, and that the flag flying atop the courthouse is “dark black,” while the al Qaeda flag is charcoal black. To many locals, it’s a distinction without a difference. One man approached me with a friendly warning: "I recommend that you leave now; [the Islamist fighters] could be watching you." http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/10/libya-al-qaeda-plants-its-flag-at-benghazi-courthouse.html

It may be a hoax, Ess, but it was carried by many news agencies. Seeing that I felt no reason to doubt it's probability. As far as mainstream covering it if it were true, that's a laugh. They would bury it as deeply as they bury everything else that could reflect badly on the administration. When they get the reputation for NOT covering the news, one has to look elsewhere.

I wish Egypt were a joke, too, where we ousted the big cheese without even knowing who the rebels were and are now seeing Christians being massacred. If that's a hoax, too, then the footage and words of the fellow on 60 minutes was really faked well.
Bob K
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5 posted 11-01-2011 01:11 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     A matter of months ago, the right was asserting that it was not our responsibility what happened in Libya.  I heard that reported here in our pages.  I certainly agreed that we had no military right to involve ourselves.

     This, it turns out, is only true when the right feels that it can blame President Obama for his actions in that case.  Now, when he is not doing something, apparently  he is now responsible for that as well.  No matter that  the right has flip flopped here.  Are we now supposed to intervene?

     As for Egypt, they should not be persecuting Christians, some of which have been in Egypt for longer that the Muslim majority.  What does the Right suggest we do about this?  I think some diplomatic interventions might be appropriate, but I have some doubts as to how effective they will be.  We were a long-term supporter of the Mubarak dictatorship.  We used the Egyptian secret service to do some of our dirty work and the Egyptians seem to be fairly well aware of this.  Their cheerfulness with American foreign policy may not be at a high point just now, and pretending that it should be is simply grandiosity on our part.  In breaking free from the Mubarak regime, at least some of the Egyptians may feel they are breaking free from Western and specifically American influence.  President Obama was fortunate to be able to get out in front of the Egyptian Spring as much as he did.  

     It is inaccurate, I think, to tag President Bush entirely for events in the Middle east since his Presidency.  It would also be a mistake, on the other hand, to forget that among the other foreign policy objectives that the Bush White House was discussing at the time of the invasion of Iraq was the political transformation of the Middle east in general.  To see it happening should not be terribly surprising.  To see it taking unwelcome directions should also not be terribly shocking.  You can start an avalanche; you can't always predict where the avalanche will go.

    

Essorant
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6 posted 11-01-2011 02:39 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

Breaking News:  Al Qaeda flag flying over the White House!





 
Local Rebel
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7 posted 11-01-2011 03:56 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

How many United States citizens did the Confederate States of America kill? And why should its' battle flag be on display anywhere in the world, let alone on a state-house lawn?
Bob K
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8 posted 11-01-2011 06:39 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Yes, LR, that too.
Balladeer
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9 posted 11-01-2011 06:46 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Ess, let's hope your photoshop play is not a premonition of the future.
Local Rebel
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10 posted 11-01-2011 10:56 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

How many Christians did the Confederate States of America kill, and should its' battleflag be on the display of a state-house lawn?
Essorant
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11 posted 12-16-2011 02:02 PM       View Profile for Essorant   Email Essorant   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Essorant's Home Page   View IP for Essorant

More Breaking News, from the bottomless pit of facts called the Internet: "Senate Approves Bill that Legalizes Sodomy and Bestiality in U.S. Military"
 
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
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12 posted 12-17-2011 07:47 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


How you gonna keep 'em
down on the farm
after they've seen Pa-ree?


     Who was the Republican leader a few years back who got to talking about his warm personal relations with his family mule, and suggested that this was a big farm pastime?  

     Being from Ohio, myself, though confessedly a city boy, I don't remember much talk about that sort of thing, even among rural Republicans.  I would think that it would fall under the animal cruelty statutes, and a large enough publicity of any legal action would probably provide significant legal and social sanctions.  I expect they would probably feel significantly cowed and definitely sheepish about the episode.  The notion of horsing around outside their own species would probably not seem so appealing in the future.

     The difficulty, as the later comments in the quoted article suggest, simply serve to direct attention away to more significant attacks on civil liberties that are going on and have been going on for some time in regards to rearch and seizure and the powers of arrest, and also the potential for the use of the U.S. military on US soil.  Against these issues, the questions about sodomy and bestiality are way down the list, and are also covered by other laws when they are not the result of consentual relationships or are exploititive in some fashion.

[This message has been edited by Bob K (12-18-2011 05:47 PM).]

 
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