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Passions in Poetry

Catch-22, Revised

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Uncas
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since 07-30-2010
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25 posted 09-30-2011 03:04 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

The NJ bill came first Mike, as LR said, at the time Obama's bill didn't exist. Christie initially opposed the bill then after a minor amendment signed it into law, the 'softening' talked about in the article was a reference to a couple of minor word changes to ensure that it was clear that a successful prosecution would need evidence of discrimination - a bit of political sophistry really since any successful case would require evidence.

Christie changed a couple of words so he could claim that the bill had been 'softened' compared to the bill that was originally presented. Obama ripped the improved version off and inserted it into the jobs bill even down to the $5000 cap on damages.

Why anyone would think that one is sugar and spice and the other is poison is a mystery unless LR's point and the point made by Ron in an earlier post has some validity - that it isn't the content of the bill that's the real issue, it's the name attached to the bill.

Personally, I don't see a problem with either bill but then again I'm not a massive supporter of them either - they're likely to do a little bit of good but no real harm.

.

[This message has been edited by Uncas (10-01-2011 05:25 AM).]

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


26 posted 09-30-2011 03:13 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“Look, I’m sorry, but New Jersey Governor Chris Christie cannot be president: He is just too fat.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-30/requiem-for-a-governor-be fore-he-s-in-the-ring-michael-kinsley.html


“Whether or not he lets himself be persuaded to run for president, Chris Christie needs to find some way to lose weight. Like everyone else, elected officials perform best when they are in optimal health. Christie obviously is not.
You could argue that this is none of my business, but I disagree. Christie’s problem with weight ceased being a private matter when he stepped into the public arena — and it’s not something you can fail to notice. Obesity is a national epidemic whose costs are measured not just in dollars and cents but also in lives. Christie’s weight is as legitimate an issue as the smoking habit that President Obama says he has finally kicked.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/chris-christies-big-problem/2011/09/ 29/gIQAAL7J8K_story.html

“Look, I’m sorry, but New Jersey Governor Chris Christie cannot be president: He is just too fat.”

Isn’t there a law already against this kind of thing?
.
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
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27 posted 09-30-2011 03:38 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Last time I checked John, the First Amendment guarantees the rights of Kinsley, Robinson, WP, and Bloomberg.  
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
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28 posted 09-30-2011 03:45 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


But if you as an employer
said that to a job applicant?


.
Balladeer
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29 posted 09-30-2011 04:15 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

....which Christie would be if running for president.

No, Uncas, in the actual form the two bills are written, and understanding that the Christie bill was not a revision of the Obama bill, I see no difference and consider them both equally ridiculous.
Local Rebel
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30 posted 09-30-2011 04:39 PM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

http://www.ehow.com/info_8235851_preemployment-physicals.html
Huan Yi
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31 posted 09-30-2011 05:10 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


“In December 2008, Binghamton, New York, became one of just six cities in the United States to enact laws protecting against weight discrimination. The others are San Francisco and Santa Cruz (California), Urbana (Illinois), Madison (Wisconsin), and Washington D.C. The only state in the country to have such a law is Michigan.”


http://www.thewip.net/contributors/2009/07/fat_activists_seek_law_banning.html


Go Michigan!


.
Balladeer
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32 posted 09-30-2011 05:28 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

http://www.khou.com/home/Company-sued-by-feds-for-firing-680-pound-man-130741698.html
http://www.drudge.com/news/148827/eeoc-sues-fired-680-pound-man


So we have an almost 700 pound fellow fired  from his job because the company said his weight was preventing him from doing his job. He had gained almost 300 pounds after getting hired. He is now suing the company two years later after using the severance pay the company gave him to get weight loss surgery and bring his weight back down under 300 pounds.

He wants his job back....but not only that. He wants back wages and damages for all the time he was out of work.

He should be on his knees thanking the company for saving, or at least, lengthening his life. Instead of that, he is suing them.

Only in America....
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
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33 posted 09-30-2011 09:12 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K




     If the man had good job performance reviews, why should he be fired any more than a smoker or a drinker.  So long as his job performance was good, it seems to me that being fired was an expression of a social expression of disgust,  The same expression that comes through very clearly in the comments appended to the Druge Report item.

     If the company was worried about liability they could have spoken with him about the worry and asked him to sign some sort of quit claim for incidents that happened during the normal performance of his regular duties as per his job description.  If the company had a health plan, they could have suggested he use it, or they could have sent him to Overeaters Anonymous, which is often helpful with folks with a weight problem.

     Any number of less drastic solutions come to mind for an employee who is reported to have had good job performance reviews and 16 years seniority, should you manage to go so far as to define this difficult personal problem as a company problem in the eyes of the law.  It turns out that almost any of them would have been more cost efficient, not to mention more thoughtful of employee loyalty and less cruel.  I do wonder what the actual outcome will be.

     From my discussions with alcoholics, I've heard quite a number express the notion that compulsive over-eaters are in a more difficult situation than they are.  I'm not sure that's true, at least in the later stages of the alcoholism, when the mortality rate is very high indeed.  But it may be true in the early and middle stages of these addictions.  The point the alcoholics raise is that they have the option of quitting entirely, and not drinking again, while the compulsive eater (and the bulemic as well) is in the situation where they have to eat to stay alive.  They must indulge in some of the addictive behavior without getting caught up in the addictive patterns.

     I am not up on the current information, but from my time as an addictions/plus other psychiatric disorders counselor, the  theory was that there was a common addiction pathway for  food, alcohol, gambling and drug disorders that came from stimulation of opiate receptors in the brain.  In the case of actual opiates, the drug itself took up the receptor site.  In the case of the other drugs, and behaviors, they stimulated in various ways, the production of endorphins, which filled the sites, producing some approaching the same sort of high.

     Different, because of side effects of the drugs or behaviors, but stimulating the same basic pathways.  I may be out of date, but that's the story as of about 20 years ago.  All of these drugs and behaviors tend to have some self-soothing function, although I think that gambling and the stimulant drugs run through a different pathway.

     These are all difficult highs to give up, and suggesting that will power alone will do it is for somebody who has not tried to give up some of these addictive behaviors after they've gotten well established.  Figures for treatment success tend to be far better for those who've been treated early, though there is some variation, depending on the profile of the illness.

     Willpower is best thought of as an emergency measure, and useful only for the short term as an intervention.
Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


34 posted 10-01-2011 01:17 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


I can not imagine any job involving
moving materials that anticipates
a 670 pound employee.  As far as the reviews
are concerned, that easily could have
been a manager afraid of what is now
happening except because of a bad review.
The threat of litigation intimidates even
legitimate concerns these days.  But at some
point things passed the point where it
could be ignored any longer.  The employer
didn't act just because it was a rainy day.

Unless you're in the steel mills, most forklifts
and material handlers are no more than a ton
in weight if that; they're not built for a 670
pound driver.  And if he wasn't moving materials
with machinery it gets no better.

At 450, it may well be a friend
of a friend who got him in in the
first place; they hired a problem
from the start.

.
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


35 posted 10-02-2011 03:54 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



    

     An interesting set of speculations, John, but they all seem to me to be based on assumptions you've made about unknown working conditions and unknown hiring conditions.  Most of them make assumptions that are contrary to information we have about the man and his work record.  We don't even know if his duties involve use of a fork lift truck from the references I saw.  If you are making reference to others that I don't know about, of course, that include material that documents such information, I will acknowledge I'm off base in my conclusions from the data that I've seen.

     The suggestion that the man got his job through use of personal  influence seems to me to require something more substantial than the mere statement of a suspicion to substantiate it.   Do you have information that this is the case?  I thought that the company had declined to comment because of the impending litigation, so if they were the source of such information, I'm certain the man himself would find it interesting to know that they have been issuing statements contrary to their policy.  Certainly his lawyers might have some questions to raise about this sort of thing.  If the company has not been leaking information contrary to their statements, then perhaps you have some other information source you might care to let me in on?

[This message has been edited by Bob K (10-03-2011 01:42 AM).]

 
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