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Balladeer
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Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


50 posted 09-25-2011 07:49 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

What are they doing in Switzerland that we could do here? I believe the lifestyle is a bit different in the two countries, Bob, and that is certainly not saying that ours is better, only different. One, for example, would claim neutrality in a world war while the other would make the difference in winning the war. I would applaud the country able to maintain their neutrality but I would thank God for the country willing to fight for freedom.    Comparing the two would be apples and oranges. there are a lot more automatic weapons around than there are here. I confess that surprises me.    From where do you get that information?

Any drug that produced a record like that would not be allowed on the market; it would be considered too unsafe for human use.

Oh, did the government outlaw smoking while I wasn't looking??

I don't see why that would be offensive, though I take the correction and say I'm sorry for getting my facts wrong.

No big deal, Bob. Perhaps if someone referred to you as a part-time psycologist or psychiatrist, it could rankle you a bit...or not. Your words are kindly accepted.
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


51 posted 09-25-2011 09:56 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

     Smoking is too unsafe to pass muster as a safe drug, and has never been under the FDA to my knowledge.  It may be the sound of all that shooting has rattled your memory a bit.  

     Switzerland requires every male head of household — or used to, my information is about 15 years old — to have and maintain an automatic rifle in the house and at least 20 rounds of amunition for it.  While we may have more firearms overall, fully automatic weapons are much harder to come by and are generally illegal for private owners unless certain restrictions are complied with. Yes, I know conversion kits are available that will turn semi-automatic rifles of some sorts into automatic rifles, and that they can be purchased at gun shows, where people seem to come down with remarkable clusters of amnesia outbreaks on a regular basis, just as they seem to do about surpressers.  

      But every home in these United States is not required to have an automatic rifle in functioning condition, and the reverse is true in Switzerland.  The Swiss are quite serious about their weapons and about having their citizenry competent in the use of weapons.  There are few things as serious as a serious Swiss citizen, and this is one of the things about which they have little or no sense of humor.

     The entire country is one fortified redoubt after another.  They are grim about their freedom, and as serious about it as Americans are about about our own.  They are also downright prickly about other people telling them what is free and what isn't in their own country.  Their as touchy as old blasting caps.

Balladeer
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52 posted 09-25-2011 10:31 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Any car that produced a driving record like that would be removed from the market,

Last time I checked, cars are not under the FDA, either, Bob, and yet you used them as being an example of something being unsafe that would be removed from the market and yet you chastize me for using cigarettes? Yes, I can see that some brain is rattled here. Try again.

Huan Yi
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Waukegan


53 posted 09-25-2011 10:32 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


Aren't there a lot of guns in Israel?
How are they doing?


.
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
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54 posted 09-26-2011 02:26 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



quote:


Last time I checked, cars are not under the FDA, either, Bob, and yet you used them as being an example of something being unsafe that would be removed from the market and yet you chastise me for using cigarettes? Yes, I can see that some brain is rattled here. Try again.



     Maybe you can explain the logic of that to me, Mike.  It made no sense at all.

     I followed it roughly right to the point where you said that I used them as an example, which made sense, sort of ... .  I understand that you're still trying to get parts for your Corvair and your old Pinto, but I put that down to Mike being Mike.  The fact that  the dangers involved in both models forced them off the market would be something that I'd expect you to understand.  Pretending that you don't suggests that you have no grasp of market economics and voting with your feet, and I really do know better than that.  It's one of the foundation points for conservative economic theory.  Pretending ignorance is just you being disingenuous in a folksy kind of way.

     What I'm seriously puzzled by is why you would possibly say something like "and yet you chastise me for using cigarettes?"  

     Is there some reason that I'm supposed to have pegged you for being a smoker?

     And is there some reason I should chastise you for it?

     It already sounds as though you have whatever information you need, and that whatever the decision you've made, you need whatever help you can tolerate in quitting, should you wish to do so, or in enjoying the habit as much as you can now.  Whatever I can do in whichever direction, please let me know, unless you think it's none of my business.  I certainly never thought about your smoking habits at all.  I found dealing with quitting first cigarettes, then cigars and then pipes difficult enough on my own.  I wish I could still smoke and feel good about it.  I remember it fondly and dream about the habit(s) frequently.

     That aside, I wouldn't recommend you start if you weren't smoking already, and both of us know it's seriously unsafe, and that whether or not it delivers lung cancer it certainly screws up breathing capacity for a high proportion of long term smokers.

     Guns are different from cigarettes in that guns are at their base, tools, and as such have some social utility.  

     You may notice that I made no such claim about guns, which do have some utility.  It's simply that the way we manage them here in the United States is in some fashion considerably different than the way folks handle them in some other countries, where the numbers of gun fatalities are far lower.

     You shouldn't have something around where the very presence of the thing makes the situation worse.  With medicines, they'd be taken off the market.  With cars they'd have to be sent back to the drawing board.  With cigarettes, they can at this point afford to buy the legislators who regulate the industry, and make sure that legislators that are not reasonably pliable are unlikely to be elected.

     You also may have missed the section of one of my above posts where I said that I was against outlawing drugs because that put the black market beyond all control.  It certainly seems to have worked that way with both alcohol and cigarettes, which we can tax and regulate to some extent, and which we can also sue when needed.  These rights bring some sort of control onto these industries which would not otherwise exist.  The same situation applies to some extent to the auto industry.

     The gun industry has done a pretty good job of evading many of these controls, in my opinion, and has not come under very robust legal control.

     What is it you said you were smoking again?  What kind of cigarettes were they?
Balladeer
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55 posted 09-26-2011 07:56 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Bob, you are priceless! I'll be back when I have time for this silliness...
Bob K
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56 posted 09-26-2011 11:42 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I am priceless, aren't I?

     Why thank you, Mike!

     And you are Priceless, too.
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
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57 posted 09-26-2011 08:00 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

     In answer to your question, John.

     We have a lot of guns here in California, too, John, and so far we've made sure that we haven't been invaded by people from Aruzona and New Mexico and those people out in Utah, though the Utah contingent has had us holding our breath a couple of times, I gotta tell you.  

     We've also kept the Martians at bay pretty good, at least most of the time.  I hear tell that Rhode Island is building tanks to invade us, so you folks in Indiana or Oshkosh or St. Louis or one of them other mid-western States better stock up on ammo and fight 'em off first.  We hear that the State of Saint Louis has a lot of them Mexican immigrants in there, and they might  develop a taste for your cattle and your young maidens.

     I hadn't heard that those New Yorkers were all that fond of guns, though, and then you tell me that the Israelis have got a whole bunch of them.  Who knew?  Are they still fighting them arabs off from the  Washington Heights?  Heck oif a war that one was, I tell you.

     Best wishes from out here in Hollywood.

     Yosemite Bob!
Local Rebel
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since 12-21-1999
Posts 5742
Southern Abstentia


58 posted 09-27-2011 12:02 AM       View Profile for Local Rebel   Email Local Rebel   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Local Rebel

Bob, if you had a rascal scooter and a triangle hat - I'd be worried!  
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
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59 posted 09-27-2011 02:09 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     Yee Haw, Reb!  Just keep reloading  and cut the cute comebacks there, boy!  I'm on a roll.

     The President had dinner in a restaurant not half a dozen blocks from here this evening.  My wife and I went there for my birthday.  If I'd known that reservations were that hard to come by, I'da been proud to let him have mine back in March.

     Wahoo!
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


60 posted 09-27-2011 02:14 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



    
"Logic, that hutch for Grubby schoolboys!"

                                      —Theodore Roethke
Bob K
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since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


61 posted 09-27-2011 06:44 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K

     After having gotten my own spasm of silliness out of my system for the moment, I thought I'd go back to the basic point I was raising with Mike.

quote:

     Guns [are tools ... and ...] have some utility.  It's simply that the way we manage them here in the United States is in some fashion considerably different than the way folks handle them in some other countries, where the [... percentage ... ] of gun fatalities are far lower.

     You shouldn't have something around where the very presence of the thing makes the situation worse.  With medicines, they'd be taken off the market.  With cars they'd have to be sent back to the drawing board. [...]

     You also may have missed the section of one of my above posts where I said that I was against outlawing drugs because that put the black market beyond all control.  It certainly seems to have worked that way with both alcohol and cigarettes, which we can tax and regulate to some extent, and which we can also sue when needed.  These rights bring some sort of control onto these industries which would not otherwise exist.  The same situation applies to some extent to the auto industry.

     The gun industry has done a pretty good job of evading many of these controls, in my opinion, and has not come under very robust legal control.



     The gun industry seems to function under a series of special protections, and not always to the advantage of the public.  I have heard, once or twice in these pages, complaints on the violence of the Mexican drug cartels, and the notion of Mexican violence with automatic weapons coming North has been cause for complaint and alarm, especially during our immigration discussions.

     The Mexican government is also concerned with that gun violence.  They have sent diplomatic notes to our government protesting our own government's lack of policing of our own weapons industry, which seems to be the source of many of those automatic weapons that have been tearing up Mexico.  They may now be coming back across the border, though they are not Mexican in origin but are apparently American as Apple Pie.

     Forgive me if I don't say, "Yum."
 
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