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Respect For First Rsponders Squashed by Senate Republicans

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Bob K
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0 posted 09-18-2011 01:18 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K





quote:


Senate GOP blocks 9/11 first responders health plan bill
By Alexander Bolton and Jason Millman - 12/09/10 01:14 PM ET
Senate Republicans on Thursday morning filibustered legislation to monitor and treat first responders and emergency workers who suffered illnesses related to 9/11.

A vote to quash the filibuster failed by a vote of 57 to 42, three votes short of the necessary threshold. As a result, the proposal is unlikely to pass this year.

The bill would provide funding for a health program to treat first responders, construction and cleanup workers and residents who inhaled toxic particles after the collapse of the World Trade Center towers.

The $7.4 billion cost of the legislation over 10 years is paid for by a provision that would prevent foreign multinational corporations from using tax havens to avoid taxes on U.S. income.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) blasted Republicans after the vote.

“Republicans denied adequate health care to the heroes who developed illnesses from rushing into burning buildings on 9/11. Yet they will stop at nothing to give tax breaks to millionaires and CEOs, even though they will explode our deficit and fail to create jobs. That tells you everything you need to know about their priorities,” Reid said in a statement.

The International Association of Firefighters, the National Association of Police Organizations, the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association and the AFL-CIO union, among other organizations, support the legislation.

Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), one of the bill’s co-sponsors, made an impassioned plea before the vote to bring it up for consideration.

“This vote is about being an American, because from the days at Bunker Hill, when the patriots put down their plows and took up muskets to defend and create our freedom, we always try to take care of them,” Schumer said. “The heroes of 9/11 are no different.”

Schumer said some of the police officers and firefighters who rushed to the flaming towers have already been diagnosed with cancers.

“Others know it is an almost certainty that they will come down with similar diseases and illnesses that are extremely costly to fight,” he said.

Last week, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) released a letter signed by every Senate Republican pledging to block all legislative action until Congress acts on the expiring Bush tax cuts and passes a measure to fund the federal government into 2011.

The Senate has yet to vote on either issue. Reid said a bipartisan deal to extend tax rates for two years might receive a vote Saturday.

The setback provides a difficult path for the $7.4 billion bill to get approved before the lame-duck session is scheduled to end next week. However, House members were circulating a letter Thursday morning urging the Senate to include the bill in the recent tax deal forged by President Obama.

"We feel that we must seize every opportunity possible to ensure that this bill become law," the letter read.

Republicans oppose the paid-for healthcare benefits bill because it closes a tax loophole on foreign companies. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) blasted Republicans following the failed filibuster vote.

"The idea that tax cuts for millionaires would derail this legislation is simply outrageous and offensive," Gillibrand said in a statement. "The men and women who rushed to the burning towers and worked for hundreds of hours on the pile did not delay, and the Senate should not have delayed either."


Ron
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quote:
Republicans oppose the paid-for healthcare benefits bill because it closes a tax loophole on foreign companies. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) blasted Republicans following the failed filibuster vote.

"The idea that tax cuts for millionaires would derail this legislation is simply outrageous and offensive,"

Then remove it from the bill.

If the legislation is really that important to the Democrats, and not just their usual ploy to pluck at the nation's heart strings, then they should never have tied the bill to a tax cut they knew would face concerted opposition. Does anyone really want to help 911 responders? Or is that just the latest shell game to hide their political maneuvering behind?


Uncas
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2 posted 09-18-2011 06:18 AM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

Isn't this old news?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/01/02/photo-president-o bama-signs-james-zadroga-911-health-and-compensation-act
.
Balladeer
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3 posted 09-18-2011 08:32 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Of course it's the latest shell game, Ron. It's the same old tactic of attaching unpopular bills to ones that are popular. When they are protested due to the unpopular part, the party that wanted the unpopular part to get through point to the other parts and scream that the other party is unfeeling, uncaring or whatever....and those who are simply looking to throw dirt at the republicans do the same thing here for the same reason.

Democrats are good at shelving whatever they don't want passed. Reid is good at stating that the Senate will not even bring bills up for a vote that had passed the House if he doesn't want to see them get passed. Now he cries that the Republicans won't allow a bill he wants to get passed come up for a vote. Tough break, Dirty Harry, and tough to whoever follows and approves of his tactics.

It's just another step in Obama's new re-election ploy, preaching on how the Republican party hates the United States, how they are against anything that might benefit the middle class, how they are uncaring and the Democrat party is the only one that cares for you. They throw out the same chant of how Republicans care only for millionaires and continue their attempt to provoke class warfare....and they are too dumb to realize that it just ain't working any more and makes them look foolish and inept.

If the democrats were truly concerned about helping these responders they would submit the bill on it's own but, instead, they use it to play political football. You want sleazy? THAT is sleazy.
Huan Yi
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4 posted 09-18-2011 09:10 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


There is this implied sense of “millionaires”
being an undeserved wealth aristocracy that spends
its time in mortal sin at the expense of the poor and righteous.
The lucky and evil few.


.
Uncas
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5 posted 09-18-2011 09:50 AM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

quote:
It's the same old tactic of attaching unpopular bills to ones that are popular.


The suggestion that there were two bills is incorrect Mike, there was only ever one bill with a section explaining how it would be paid for which is a legislative requirement.

The sticking point was that the Democrats wanted it to be paid for via an increase in tax on foreign companies that secured US government procurement contracts and the Republicans wanted the section changed so that the cost came out of money allocated for US health care.

When the media attention had died down and both parties had scored all the political points they could squeeze out of the situation the original bill, as presented by the Dems, was passed without amendment.

.
Huan Yi
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6 posted 09-18-2011 10:55 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


It's the same old tactic
of incorporating unpopular
what should be separate bills
into ones that are popular.


Mike should have his comments vetted by a lawyer
but he’s cheap and that always costs money.


.

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7 posted 09-18-2011 11:38 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I prefer the word frugal.

Then I don't understand the point of this thread.
Ron
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quote:
It's just another step in Obama's new re-election ploy, preaching on how the Republican party hates the United States, how they are against anything that might benefit the middle class, how they are uncaring and the Democrat party is the only one that cares for you.

The sad part, Mike, is that the only part of that preaching with which I can disagree is the final clause.

quote:
Then I don't understand the point of this thread.

Beats me. Why Bob would choose to post an article written almost a year ago, without a link to the source, is anyone's guess. A slow news week?
Uncas
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9 posted 09-18-2011 12:13 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

quote:
Then I don't understand the point of this thread.


Nor do I, the issue was relevant in 2010 when we first discussed it and when the article was written but, as I understand it, the bill has since been signed into law, as I pointed out earlier.


There are possible areas for discussion though - for instance if the funding section of the bill was such an anathema back then what changed that allowed the objectors to abandon their entrenched positions and principles to vote for it?

.
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10 posted 09-18-2011 12:28 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

(sorry, Ron. I miscounted paragraphs)
Bob K
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11 posted 09-18-2011 04:36 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


     I included this with the text of the article:

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/worker-safety/132907-health-bill-for- 911-workers-fails-key-vote


     I was under the impression that it had posted with the article, simultaneously.  I see here that it has not.  My intention was for publication information to show up with the text, and I can only express my consternation that it didn't work out that way.

     What we have here is a description of how the first responders were treated by the Republicans in an initial show down over what the Republicans felt was important, taking care of the people which the country owes — the cops and the firemen — or taking care of their major donors.  The events of the years since show that they allowed the first responders some acknowledgement after a fierce initial fight, but have gone out of their way to take rights away from them since that time, to make any future discussions considerably more one-sided.  Collective bargaining rights have been rolled back and with them these fire-fighters now face considerably more dangerous situations in their work environments.

     The conditions under which this bill first reached the Senate last year included a solid Democratic majority in the House.  That majority does not exist during this Congress, and it is highly unlikely such a bill would even get to the Senate under current political conditions.  

     This is a follow up article, but from The Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/nyregion/10health.html
Uncas
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12 posted 09-18-2011 05:42 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


Not having the link wasn't a big problem Bob, it only took me a couple of seconds to find the original article via Google using the details at the start of your post.

The reason behind posting it was a bit of mystery though so thanks for clearing that up.

I have to admit that when this was unfolding last year the part that struck me as most bizarre was when Republicans during one debate were urging fellow Republicans to vote against the bill because of a 'procedural issue'. It prompted perhaps my favourite clip of a politician passionately saying exactly what I was thinking - only with less expletives than I would have used.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O_GRkMZJn4

.
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13 posted 09-18-2011 09:39 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Obama Says He'll Blame GOP For Unemployment Rate If Bill Is Not Passed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FenBBsDkuQ&feature=player_embedded    


As in the topic of this thread, here is another indication of how Obama works. He sends a bill to congress, says "Pass  it now!" with no discussion, no mention of compromise and, when congress doesn't pass it as he knows it won't, he blames the republicans for not working for the American people. He is going to ignore the three years in which his stimulus package did not lower but raise the unemployment numbers and claims that if they do not pass his current bill immediately, everything will be the republican's fault....and Obama blameless once again.  He really believes the american people will buy it. It's like someone holding a gun to a hostage's head and saying, "If you don't do what I want, I'll kill her and her death will be your fault." For the first time, I truly believe that, no matter who Obama runs against, he will lose. I hope I'm right.

Huan Yi
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14 posted 09-18-2011 10:41 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


First the rich then the kulaks . . .


.
Bob K
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15 posted 09-19-2011 02:34 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K


quote:

As in the topic of this thread, here is another indication of how Obama works



     This thread is not about how The President works, Mike.  Saying "As in the topic  of this thread"  does not make it the topic of this thread.  The topic of this thread is how the Republicans made a big deal of how patriotic it was to throw support on the side of firefighters and police, and then how they tried to back out of that commitment to the most visible members of that group.

     That is not the same thing, Mike; it's a comparison of oranges and rusty Tramp Freighters, and the only way it works is as an attempt to shift the topic from something that may seem profoundly uncomfortable because it highlights the activities of the Republican party with real world examples seem with a little bit of temporal perspective.  That's okay.  I understand.  What the activities of the party have been over the past year or so and what the rhetoric has been are not very congruent.

     The rhetoric is respectful of firefighters and police and various civil employees.  The actual actions of the party have not been, especially in attacking the right to collective bargaining and in respecting what police and fire folks believe to be safe and fair working conditions.

     I understand the urge to attack President Obama.  I agree the man has flaws, and I've mentioned several of them in prior posts.  If you feel the need to go into them again, that seems a bit of a stretch in terms of the topic, but I can understand the need for a bit of a breather.  Our critiques of the President don't seem to be the same all the time, though neither of us seem happy with Libya.

     I don't know if the President will lose to whichever Republican runs against him or not.  I don't think we've recovered from the last Republican Presidency by a long shot, and the Republicans in the Senate and House have pretty much tied up every possibility of changing anything in a serious way in knots.  The Republicans still seemed to be focused to ripping apart the network of social services and protections that it took eighty years to build up in this country.  It seems as though they want to go back to some time before any such protections existed, forgetting the social conditions after the crash and in the early years of the depression were such that many believed that the country was on the brink of a literal left wing revolution.

     The New Deal is what headed that off.

     Whatever; perhaps I'm venturing into waters that people find uninteresting.

     Hey, John!

     Kulaks?  

     You start to sound like an SDS meeting back in 1966, unable to distinguish one mass murder from another, Armenians from Jews from Vietnamese to Kulaks To Reds or Greens to Native Americans; and from all the later versions.  Mass murders, according to the SDS, were American as Apple Pie.  Now you're suggesting that they're a particularly Communist thing, when I grew up with what a Nazi thing they were.  During the Hundred Years War, there were some dandy massacres of Catholics by Protestants and vice versa.  The Romans did a pretty solid job on the Jews at the fall of the second temple, leaving the holy land is pretty poor shape.  I could go on.

     Got any particular drums to beat here, John, for any particular reason?

     And does this mean that I have to substitute those drums for your making an actual case that there is a connection between raising taxes on people who don't pay an appropriate percentage compared with people who make less money and that group being singled out for extermination by a dictator under a completely different form of government?

     You'd actually have to make the case to convince me, John.  I'm as emotional as the next guy, but I want my logic, too.
    

[This message has been edited by Bob K (09-19-2011 03:12 AM).]

Ron
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quote:
What we have here is a description of how the first responders were treated by the Republicans in an initial show down over what the Republicans felt was important, taking care of the people which the country owes — the cops and the firemen — or taking care of their major donors.

That's not necessarily what we have at all, Bob.

If someone introduced a bill that had a positive effect for our emergency responders but was dependent on selling our first borns into slavery, I think I'd probably be opposed to it. Strenuously so. That doesn't mean I don't respect police and fire; it simply means I think the cost being proposed is inappropriate to the benefit being accrued. To concentrate solely on benefits while ignoring the costs -- or to advocate that others do so -- would be at best illogical and at worst irresponsible. Similarly, being opposed to the costs doesn't necessarily mean someone is opposed to the benefits. Both have to be considered.

If you want to tie in collective bargaining, that's a different issue altogether. It has absolutely nothing to do with how medical care for emergency responders should be paid for.
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17 posted 09-19-2011 08:16 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

This thread is not about how The President works, Mike.

Actually, Bob, that's exactly what it is. In both cases, Obama introduces a bill that he knows won't pass as it stands and, when it doesn't pass, he blames republicans and gets people like you to post threads like this one, declaring how republicans do not respect our first responders. The only difference between our two examples is that, in the first one, he did it with the intention of using compromises to get the bill passed and, in the current one, he is demanding that the bill be passed as is. If you want to see an example of disrespect to the first responders, you need go no further than to refer to how those first responders were not  invited to attend the 10th year anniversary of 9/11 because "there was no room for them". THAT is true disrespect. There was certainly enough room for the politicians there, wasn't there??

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18 posted 09-19-2011 08:18 AM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

I understand the urge to attack President Obama.

Substitute Republicans for President Obama and we have the purpose of this thread.

I was under the impression that it had posted with the article, simultaneously.  I see here that it has not.  My intention was for publication information to show up with the text, and I can only express my consternation that it didn't work out that way.

I find that unlikely, Bob, unless you are the type of person who introduces a thread and, upon completion, does not check it for accuracy. You would appear to be a little more thorough than that. I don't see where the omission of a link to an article from last year over a topic that has already been resolved would make a difference anyway. You decided to take a shot at Republicans without checking that it was old news and it backfired.....I guess you have urges, too.

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19 posted 09-19-2011 06:21 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



quote:

This thread is not about how The President works, Mike.

Actually, Bob, that's exactly what it is.



     No, Mike, it isn't.  It's about the effect the Republicans have had on domestic policy and on how they're using budgetary issues in the congress through the example of events that took place a year ago so that we can have some perspective on how they unfolded.  If you want to accuse the Democratic Congress of being weak or disorganized or spineless, I won't give you much of a fight.  I was surprised they managed to get the bill through what was then a Democratic House.  I don't think such a thing is possible today, and I see nothing of its like being proposed by that body today.

     If you want to talk about President Obama not being much of a hardball player when it comes to the Senate and his negotiations with them, I'd agree with you there.  I think he's made a mess of his dealings with the senate in a lot of different ways, though differently than you apparently do.  One of the things that I don't regard him as doing very well at with the senate is using Presidential power very well.  The House may have the power to appropriate money.  That money may have to be Okayed by the Senate, but it's the President who administers how that money goes and where and when.  If he were using his leverage correctly, a lot of the payoffs that the Republicans might expect to get and that have been appropriated would not actually be spent, and the President would grin and tell the Public he saved them a lot of money the next year.  He hasn't done that.

     Maybe he can't for one reason or another, or feels he shouldn't.

     As for the President getting people to post threads like this one, I want to know, Who leaked?  B and I have been burning up the wires talking about exactly how I was going to pull your chain, Mike.  You're pivotal in the whole Democratic Southeastern Strategy, and B is loath to trust the details of what I say, and how and when to anybody less crafty and devious than himself personally.

     That was a joke, Mike.  I try to indicate them more often these days.  Humor doesn't always come across easily in these forums.

     As for the first responders being excluded from the gathering, this is the first I've heard about it.  As you were good enough to point out with your posting about how Google individualizes content, it's possible I wouldn't have even if I'd looked, but I've been doing other stuff recently and haven't checked in with the news much.  Any references would be appreciated.
quote:

I understand the urge to attack President Obama.

Substitute Republicans for President Obama and we have the purpose of this thread.



     Well, yes:  Specifically the guys who were quoted in the articles I've posted so far who said such things as they didn't remember how they voted.  Mr. Gates, the Communications secretary at the time, caught some flak as well, but the Republicans definitely looked terrible because they acted terribly.
    
quote:

I was under the impression that it had posted with the article, simultaneously.  I see here that it has not.  My intention was for publication information to show up with the text, and I can only express my consternation that it didn't work out that way.

I find that unlikely, Bob, unless you are the type of person who introduces a thread and, upon completion, does not check it for accuracy. You would appear to be a little more thorough than that. I don't see where the omission of a link to an article from last year over a topic that has already been resolved would make a difference anyway. You decided to take a shot at Republicans without checking that it was old news and it backfired.....I guess you have urges, too.  



     That's not even a subtle way of calling me a liar, Mike.
I did check that the link was posted — in front of the article in this case — before I posted it.  Perhaps your computer always displays your postings as part of the thread and you can review what you've written for review by making an edit on the text as it appears.  Mine does a minority of the time, and usually the program thanks me for my contribution and I won't see what the machine has set up until the next day.  Occasionally, when I can see what's been put up immediately afterwards, I will edit it.  If I had seen that the link was not present, I would have included it, and I thought it was there when I sent it off.

     I took a shot at the Republicans.  It was justified.  It was an example of the way Republicans operated then and continue to operate now.  Your response to being confronted with the situation and the facts is to call me a liar.  I can understand your discomfort with the way the Republicans behaved at the time, if you are in fact uncomfortable with it.

     You know my discomforts with the Democratic party because I've been open about them.  You know my discomforts about the President, because I've been open about them too.  In fact, I don't have to lie to bring up the topic, so I have no idea what your notion of my motivation might be.  Nor am I sure that a discussion of that would be appropriate here,

     If you believe that somehow President Obama is causing the Republicans in the House and Senate to do the things they did and continue to do, that might be interesting.  If he's devious enough to do that, though, I wonder how come he's not getting some of the legislation he wanted passed through in the form that he wanted it, and why there has been what, to my mind at least, there has been so little compromise on the part of the Republicans on tax increases in the very very rich, for example.  You can't paint the President as an evil genius and a total idiot and incompetent at the same time, not and make anything approaching a reasonable statement.
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20 posted 09-19-2011 06:43 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

First responders not invited? Here you go, Bob...
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-16/us/new.york.911.memorial_1_john-feal -responders-ground-zero?_s=PM:US
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/08/15/first-responders-snubbed-not-invited-to-911-cer emony/


In case you want more proof, here is the Snopes verdict on it, which states that not only were the first responders not invited, also all clergy were banned with no prayer allowed. Now THERE is something you can claim shows lack of respect accurately.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/responders.asp
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21 posted 09-19-2011 06:51 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Perhaps your computer always displays your postings as part of the thread and you can review what you've written for review by making an edit on the text as it appears.  Mine does a minority of the time, and usually the program thanks me for my contribution and I won't see what the machine has set up until the next day.

Bob, I programmed computer for 17 years. Ron is a computer genius. We can both tell you computer do not work that way, unless the program is faulty, of course, which I don't believe Passions's is. If a computer is programmed to do something, it either does it or it doesn't. It doesn't do it just a "minority of the time." It's not a wife who says, "Not tonight, dear. I have a headache."

I'm afraid your rebuttal doesn't fly.
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     If you can get back to the topic, I'd appreciate it, Mike.  I think you can probably deal with the actual issues involved.  Police, firefighters and many state and municipal workers do dangerous, responsible and frequently frightening work.  They should have a say in negotiating the pay and benefits they get for doing the work they love and which frequently helps destroy them prematurely.  It is the respectful thing to do with workmen who are worthy of their hire.

     The Republicans have been trying to take these gains away from these folks and have been pretty successful in recent years.  

     It may not always be the right thing to do to work with the least expensive army that you can fund.  It saves money when you privatise army food services in Iraq and serve the food in large central dining hall to convenient shifts of troops.  It was more expensive to do things with a larger number of smaller field kitchens and putting mess halls out with the troops, and running food and supply trucks up to the front lines.

     The contractors found that the big central dining halls drew bombers like honey, and caused more deaths, something that the army already knew and had learned a long time before.

     The cops and the firefighters know a lot about fighting fires and crime.  They should be part of any innovations, and they should vbe a part of new ways of patroling the streets and controling fires.  And they should have a solid say in what safe working conditions are.  The politicians are only going to blame the employees if the job isn't done right, or maybe the other party.

     Cutbacks on personnel, pay and benefits simply give the employees a grudge to carry around and get in the way of doing the best job possible.  Morale goes down and the politicians and the public blames the firefighters and the cops instead of themselves for not offering the appropriate levels of support and oversight.

     I understand that looking at what you believe to be my flaws may be more interesting, Mike, but what the Republicans have been doing to these folks recently has not been good, and needs to be changed.  Attacks on collective bargaining rights need to be stopped.
Ron
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Member Rara Avis
since 05-19-99
Posts 9708
Michigan, US


23 posted 09-19-2011 09:45 PM       View Profile for Ron   Email Ron   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Ron's Home Page   View IP for Ron

quote:
We can both tell you computer do not work that way, unless the program is faulty, of course, which I don't believe Passions's is.

What Bob is describing, Mike, has very little to do with our programs being faulty or not. It's a caching problem.

Apparently, after he posts, he gets an older copy of the page from his cache, a copy without the reply he just added. It could be his browser doing it. Could be his ISP. Either will sometimes try to save on bandwidth by using a cached copy of the page rather than ask our server to send them a new copy. On static pages, caching makes things a lot faster and more efficient. On dynamic pages, however, pages that change every time someone adds a response, it can be irritating. Because our forum pages end in .html, both browsers and ISPs often assume the pages are static.

There are some pretty simple solutions, which are discussed in our Troubleshooting Guide (look for the "I can't see the post I just made" link). When it happens to me, when my browser gives me an old copy of a new page, I just click on the Refresh button, which prompts both Firefox and IE to go back to our web server to get a fresh copy. No more problem.


Balladeer
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Member Empyrean
since 06-05-99
Posts 26302
Ft. Lauderdale, Fl USA


24 posted 09-19-2011 10:10 PM       View Profile for Balladeer   Email Balladeer   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems   Click to visit Balladeer's Home Page   View IP for Balladeer

Yes, Ron. My computer does the same and I simply hit the refresh button also. Since bob may not be aware of that, now he knows.

Bob, you asked for references to the first responders  not being invited and I provided them. Your comment?
 
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