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Passions in Poetry

How China Can Help Europe

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Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


0 posted 09-15-2011 07:47 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

“The time has come for China to adopt a broader concept of its interests and become a “responsible stakeholder” in the global system.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-china-can- help-europe-get-out-of-debt/2011/09/14/gIQA1WIxSK_story.html?hpid=z2


Or else what?

To me the article is so Charlie Brown as to be laughable.

.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


1 posted 09-16-2011 05:43 AM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     China's first concern is internal stability.  Having Euyropean markets more open to them would be useful, but not at the potential resk of any internal stability.  As John says, "Too Charlie Brown."

     The comments about Germany in the article may have been misleading, suggesting, I thought, that Germany was being poorly managed.  I don't think it is.  I think that West Germany is still trying to bring East Germany up to speed and that the debts and issues have to do with helping stabilize and integrate that East German economy from 45 years of Soviet domination.  Much of it is still, apparently, in bad ecological shape as well.  Even if Germany wanted to help, it would be very difficult for it to do so.
Uncas
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since 07-30-2010
Posts 348


2 posted 09-16-2011 01:53 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

quote:
Or else what?


Or else risk losing a large slice of its export market and damaging its own economy - at least that's what the author of the article thinks.

I'm not convinced but the argument is plausible, if China did decide to bankroll Europe though it would potentially royally screw the US economy - maybe that could be all the incentive China needs - more Dick Dastardly than Charlie Brown.

Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


3 posted 09-16-2011 05:08 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


A screwed US economy doesn’t help their export market either.  They’ll
do nothing because they can afford to do nothing.  Any government
run by a party that killed tens of millions of its own country’s citizens to
get and maintain power and currently enforces how many children the
survivors can have isn’t going to be moved by any talk like:

“The time has come for China to adopt a broader concept of its interests and become a “responsible stakeholder” in the global system.”


You can’t threaten them and you certainly can’t guilt them.  They’ve got more
than enough will and money to just sit back and watch Western Europe crash and burn.


.
Uncas
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since 07-30-2010
Posts 348


4 posted 09-16-2011 07:51 PM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas

quote:
A screwed US economy doesn’t help their export market either.


Actually, in a roundabout way, it does, for a start China exports more to Europe than it does to the US, who have managed over the last 30 or 40 years to transfer their middle class spending power abroad - along with a large chunk of their jobs. Currently China's exports to the US are growing at a far slower rate than their exports to Europe - in fact it won't be long before Hong Kong overtakes the US in the Chinese imports tables.

Europe and Asia is a growing export market for China - the US is a shrinking market, it makes perfect sense to nurture a growing market, that's Capitalism 101 - speculate to accumulate.

Buggering up the US economy also definitely helps China in other ways, China's aspirations to replace the US as THE global superpower for one. A key requirement to attaining that status would be a weak US economy allowing China to push even harder to replace the dollar as the standard world currency. China has long suggested that a currency controlled by the IMF would be preferable, how does that help China? The clue to that is in the article you posted:

quote:
" China would have to get something in return for its generosity. This could be the spur to giving China a much larger say at the IMF. In fact, it might be necessary to make clear that Christine Lagarde would be the last non-Chinese head of the organization."


Of course what China would like to see once America was forced to buy commodities and trade in a new international currency would be a weak dollar, reducing the US spending power. Fortunately they couldn't conspire to make that happen, or could they? Surely to do that they'd need to hold oodles of dollars in US debt that they could swamp the market with to devalue the dollar.

Hmmm..

Aren't conspiracy theories great?

Huan Yi
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since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


5 posted 09-18-2011 09:24 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


China can do nothing different and still reap
benefits.


.
serenity blaze
Member Empyrean
since 02-02-2000
Posts 28839


6 posted 09-18-2011 09:48 AM       View Profile for serenity blaze   Email serenity blaze   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for serenity blaze

When using quotes with the quote, a singular quote should be utilized.
Uncas
Member
since 07-30-2010
Posts 348


7 posted 09-18-2011 10:05 AM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
"When using quotes with the quote, a singular quote should be utilized."


I'll bear that in mind.

  
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


8 posted 09-18-2011 11:01 AM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


The EU can come crying to the US
and the US run to its aid with money
borrowed from . . .
Win win


.
Uncas
Member
since 07-30-2010
Posts 348


9 posted 09-18-2011 11:47 AM       View Profile for Uncas   Email Uncas   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Uncas


quote:
The EU can come crying to the US
and the US run to its aid with money
borrowed from . . .


You'd presume that in that scenario the US would "go crying" to the entity that holds more US debt than any other but as that happens to be the EU I suppose that the US would have to "go crying" to China.

Fortunately that's unlikely to happen as long as the EU can cut out the middleman and go straight to the source, which is, after all, what the article was suggesting.

.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


10 posted 09-18-2011 10:33 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


The article suggests they aren't
having much luck either.


.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


11 posted 09-26-2011 11:16 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.

I am just about finished reading “Henry Kissinger On China” and the one
thing that comes through is the Chinese confidence based on 4,000 years
of history that there’s nothing they can’t go through, (even, in Mao’s case,
nuclear war), and in the end not end up the winner if only by virtue of their numbers.  

.
Huan Yi
Member Ascendant
since 10-12-2004
Posts 6334
Waukegan


12 posted 11-14-2011 12:17 PM       View Profile for Huan Yi   Email Huan Yi   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Huan Yi

.


"Obama to China: Behave like 'grown up' economy

Obama said China was keeping its currency value artificially low, hurting American companies and jobs. He said China, which often presents itself as a developing country, is now "grown up" and should act that way in global economic affairs.


China shot back that it refused to abide by international economic rules that it had no part in writing."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45283979/ns/politics-white_house/


Earth to President Obama:  It's still
thier country . . .


.
Bob K
Member Elite
since 11-03-2007
Posts 3860


13 posted 11-15-2011 06:50 PM       View Profile for Bob K   Email Bob K   Edit/Delete Message      Find Poems  View IP for Bob K



     I think you're right.  I don't like the big posturing and the attempts to push other countries around, especially within their own borders.

     I'd feel better if the US could be more consistent about its policy about force and the threat of force, and not only in this administration, though your point is well taken here.  I suspect we have more of a bone to pick with the various multinationals that have taken advantage of China's current welcoming policy and its willingness to cooperate with the exploitation of its own labor, at least in the short run, to undermine the position of capital in the US.

     Business, is, in this case, on the side of the Chinese communists, who are playing a very smooth hand indeed.  Was it Lenin who said that Capitalists would be thrilled to be the guys to sell you the rope you were going to use to hang them?  I'm sure I've gotten that mangled somehow.
 
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